Electric Lady; stupid question on SSL

[PinkHumpy]

I have a super rookie question that hopefully some of you real pros will get a good laugh at...

I got the Citizen Cope CD yesterday and was thinking it would make another great mix reference CD for the sound I'm going for ... then I read in the jacket that it was recorded at Electric Lady studios in NYC - the very place that did my main mixing reference CD, D'Angelo Voodoo. I checked out the studio's website and it looks like they use one of those badass SSL consoles ... I don't think I've even been within 100 yards of one of those things, so I'm clueless as to what they're all about.

I read a lot on here about neve, api, hardy and their single channel clones, but I don't remember seeing any SSL single channel clones. I see that SSL sells single channel strips, but at almost $4k that's out of my range. Does anybody here work on SSL's? What's so special about 'em? The pre's, or something else like mixing capability? How would you describe them? Are there any (good) clones?

Thanks,
rookie B

[Jules]

Gooooood question!



Anyone?

I CAN tell you that there was / is still a built in compressor on the desk that you could switch in on the whole mix (on the mix buss) this was / is SO popular that many non SSL studios own an outboard version - (including my studio!)

[enharmonic]

I would say the "special" thing about an SSL, besides the compressor in the master section, is the flexibility. I could take or leave the pre's. They work...they're not offensive. The eq's are decent. Total Recall is a beautiful thing.

[De chromium cob]

Total Recall is one of the main things- every setting on the board is stored and can be recalled on the computer screen. Sound is another.....
Compressor/gate on every channel, routing up the wazoo, motorized large faders and VCA automation for the small faders, a zillion channels, 4 channel mix buss compressor, Monitoring supports 5.1, 7.1, Dolby digital....Wow factor.
I was at Electric Lady for a new years eve party back in the late 90s when they had just decommisioned the huge Focusrite console and were in the process of installing the 'purple haze" SSL 9J... Stacks and stacks of ISA110 modules scattered around the room- It was a sight to see!

[thethrillfactor]

The SSL mystique is sound+flexibility+routing.

When mixing on Neve's you have to fight against its sound.

When mxing on API's you fight against its lack of flexibility & routing.

The SSL is the only console that i know of where its possible to do a whole mix with out the need for outboard.

Soundwise in terms of character its last on the totum pole, but in my opinion this works toward its benefit when it comes to bringing a mix together that was done outside.


Not all SSL's sound a like.

The older boards have more character and are punchier, but you run into the issues of fighting the sound.

The newer boards are shinier and more open sounding, but you have to work them to bring out the punch.

The dynamics and EQ's are one of its best feautures.

The master comp is classic(i prefer the older one actually).

Can you get the same sound without the whole console?

Not in my opinion.

The whole sound is an integrated system.

[Slider]

I think the master comp is a huge part of what makes an SSL an SSL. Take that part out and it becomes much more average.
I still think Neve's are much rounder and have more depth overall.
The channel comps on the SSL are very useful on certain things. They're very punchy and aggresive to me.
The EQ's are decent.
It really is the whole package that makes them so popular.
And most mixers are very comfortable with them and know what the onboard comps and EQ's can and can't do.
All gear sort of has a sweet spot level wise, and the SSL is no exception.
Hit it too hard or too soft and the sound suffers.

[neve1073]

Soundwise, the ssl consoles I've used have left me cold. I personally would NEVER consider buying an ssl channel strip, the way i would a neve, helios, telefunken, api etc. That's just me fwiw.

[Wiggy Neve Slut]

there are so many good things going for SSL's.. which is why i secretly lust for one.. regardless of my namesake handle!

- Automation that is/was relatively simple to use and to get a handle on.

-Total Recall as mentioned

-MANY engineers just are @ home working on them as they are as generic in top flight studios as a can of coke is from a convenience store.

-They have 'THAT' sound.. no pun intended! Radio friendly and kinda sheeny sound.

-Parts are generally off the shelf and reasonably priced compared with Neve who use ultra esoterric and customer parts and can become tech nightmares.

-The MIX buss and the way in which the song gain structure is
worked has a big part of the finnished product.... im definately no ssl expert but from speaking toa few ppl and reading a few posts here it seems that there is a definate sweet spot on E series that will really make the song sing when u get in that 'pocket'. The mix bus to me is where the $$$ is@. Its big and wide and open and u can cram a lot of shite in there and it wont congeal.. unlike some other consoles.

-2Buss comp as stated before it is THE SOUND of rock/pop and was the first console to integrate this feature into it.

-The SSL is a complete package of useable routing,eq and compression. On thier own you may either take it or leave but as a whole console its a VERY powerful combination allwoing for a lot of sonic permutations.

Wiggy

[Andy Sneap]

I mixed on the SSL G upstairs at Electric Lady in 98. I was watching the world cup in what was Jimi's bedroom (apparently), needless to say England were crap. I quite like the pre's for aggresive vox, not much else, you can pick up the G series stereo pre/eq second hand for about $3k if you look round.

[TonyBelmont]

So you're looking at getting the sound of an SSL for cheap....

Why not try an Audient SUMO??? The compressor sounds very much like an SSL compressor. It gives you analog summing too. The Audient compressor seems modeled after the SSL, and sounds better if you ask me for almost half the price. It's under $2000.

That combined with a couple of DBX 160x's and xt's will get you pretty close (they're around $250 each)..... One thing that most people don't realize effects the sound is the VCA that's in every channel for the automation, etc... I think there is 2 or 3 VCA's on every SSL channel (including the compressor), and they definitely color the sound!

[lucey]

an SSL-type compressor in your recording chain, and at summing might get you closer

SSL 384, SSL reiisues, Allen Smart C1 or C2, Gyraf makes one too. all similar, all different.



that record was Mastered by Vlado Meller and maybe you like that mastering style? ... the D'Angelo was Tom Coyne.

was it loud and bright?

[84K]

Originally posted by Andy Sneap
I mixed on the SSL G upstairs at Electric Lady in 98. I was watching the world cup in what was Jimi's bedroom (apparently), needless to say England were crap. I quite like the pre's for aggresive vox, not much else, you can pick up the G series stereo pre/eq second hand for about $3k if you look round.

Hey,

I have done a lot of work at Electric Lady. The upstairs room was not Jimi's bedroom as the former studio manager would suggest.... that was a sales pitch. I fell for it too, until last year when I worked there with Eddie Kramer.

Now they have SSL J 9000s in all their rooms. The only thing I know of unique to their SSL's is the fact that they are painted purple in tribute. The SSL is a very common sound to radio listener's ears. Other people have already nailed the SSL facts in this post(very well I might add), so I won't bore you by being redundant.

[Andy Sneap]

Originally posted by 84K
Hey,

I have done a lot of work at Electric Lady. The upstairs room was not Jimi's bedroom as the former studio manager would suggest.... that was a sales pitch. I fell for it too, until last year when I worked there with Eddie Kramer.

Arse, I've been tellin all my mates for years that was Jimi's bedroom, I even called them up from there to tell them haha. Is mad mary not there any more then??

[84K]

Originally posted by Andy Sneap
Arse, I've been tellin all my mates for years that was Jimi's bedroom, I even called them up from there to tell them haha. Is mad mary not there any more then??

No, the former studio manager from that time period is no longer there(I'd rather not mention names).... So you know, you're not the only one!! I felt the same way! I called all my friends too. Funny!

[aidyhall]

I would second most of what thethrillfactor, Slider and Wiggy have said about the sound and flexibility of SSL's.

There is one thing that nobody has mentioned however, and that's the way the individual channels on the E's and G's break up in a very cool way when you tickle the 'Overload' LEDs. Want a little crunch? Just wind up the line gain or the channel compressor - nice! Perfect for more aggressive styles of music, programmed or live.

The J's and K's, while being sonically more open and clear, don't overload (distort) in the same way. I do prefer the J and especially the K (the automation computer is so fast, it's great), but I do sometimes miss that old 'crunch' ...

[PinkHumpy]

Originally posted by aidyhall
I would second most of what thethrillfactor, Slider and Wiggy have said about the sound and flexibility of SSL's.

There is one thing that nobody has mentioned however, and that's the way the individual channels on the E's and G's break up in a very cool way when you tickle the 'Overload' LEDs. Want a little crunch? Just wind up the line gain or the channel compressor - nice! Perfect for more aggressive styles of music, programmed or live.

The J's and K's, while being sonically more open and clear, don't overload (distort) in the same way. I do prefer the J and especially the K (the automation computer is so fast, it's great), but I do sometimes miss that old 'crunch' ...

You know, I think you hit on what I dig about the sound of the D'Angelo and Citizen Cope. It has a sort of overloaded grittiness that somehow still sounds tasty and smooth. It sounds crunchy at times, but also so very fine and sweet. I managed to get a crunchiness out of my crappy gear, but it didn't come out so musical, e. I seek that crunchy hifi, I guess.

Hmm...

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by PinkHumpy
You know, I think you hit on what I dig about the sound of the D'Angelo and Citizen Cope. It has a sort of overloaded grittiness that somehow still sounds tasty and smooth. It sounds crunchy at times, but also so very fine and sweet. I managed to get a crunchiness out of my crappy gear, but it didn't come out so musical, e. I seek that crunchy hifi, I guess.

Hmm...

I am not sure if those were done by Russ Elevado or not.

If so than it was on a 9000J and a 9000J doesn't crunch.

It goes splat!!

Its the one thing i've never dug about 9000's.

He is an excellent engineer and if it was him i am sure a lot of the stuff was done before it hit the 9000.

[wwittman]

I'm fascinated that someone thinks you have to "work against" a Neve (if you mean an early DISCRETE Neve as opposed to the V's which are basically THEIR SSL) or that an SSL is the desk you don't "need" outboard with.

I SO feel the opposite.

An older Neve or an API simply makes everything sound good straight away... an SSL simply makes it all sound small and thin straight away.
It's certainly possible to work hard and make it work... but I find I use MUCH more outboard gear trying to get some rock and roll-ness back into the sound on an SSL than on other consoles.

I quite agree that the built in stereo buss compressor has become very much THE sound of so many modern records, so much so that many people use them as outboard now to get that sound (or the Alan Smart versions).. but the individual channel compressors are simply awful, in my opinion.

A desk that became popular for what it DOES, not for how it SOUNDS.

Electric Lady originally had a very cool sounding, but quite limited DataMix conosle in there back in the Jimi days... then for many years it had a Neve 8078 in Studio A that was nice as well.
Eventually they put in one of only a very few large (64 in?) original Focusrite desks with GML automation.
I never liked recording on that desk, but I did like mixing in that room on it for certain types of projects.. sounded quite good.

Now Studio A has the 9k, which is a lot less attractive to ME.
Very distinctive, dark sounding room though.

oft misconstrued fact: Electric Lady (the album) was recorded at Record Plant NYC.

[lucey]

Originally posted by wwittman
I'm fascinated that someone thinks you have to "work against" a Neve (if you mean an early DISCRETE Neve as opposed to the V's which are basically THEIR SSL) or that an SSL is the desk you don't "need" outboard with.

I SO feel the opposite.

An older Neve or an API simply makes everything sound good straight away... an SSL simply makes it all sound small and thin straight away.
It's certainly possible to work hard and make it work... but I find I use MUCH more outboard gear trying to get some rock and roll-ness back into the sound on an SSL than on other consoles.

would you agree:

Rock - Api, Neve

Pop - SSL

[84K]

Originally posted by lucey
would you agree:

Rock - Api, Neve

Pop - SSL

Come on Brian!! Gear doesn't translate to music styles. I bet over half of the commercial rock records released in the last 10 years were mixed on an SSL. I agree that pop usually errors on cleaner more transparent gear, but it does not make me think SSL. SSL is the leading high budget mixing console. Many records are made with them. SSL's are not "clean," but they do have a very solid familiar sound.

Neve and API were both introduced during the peak of rock music. During that magic time period that was the gear that was around. People seek records as reference when recording, and Thus that gear has been branded as the Rock sound. That does not mean rock is all API and Neve are good for, it just happens to be what it is associated with do to historical recordings.... call it "guilt by association"-Kris

[lucey]

Well I still wonder what WWhitman will say.

Originally posted by 84K
Gear doesn't translate to music styles.

So Richard Dodd could make the same records without his fave 1176s on every track? And Hendrix with a Les Paul and a POD? And a 001 for the Muddy Waters catalog?

Studio gear extends the sound of the artists, like foot pedals and guitars and amps extend the players hands. A lot of music could not be mixed without an SSL or Pro Tools due to the complexity of the mix. Simple music can use different (better) sounding gear with less features.

MM1200s sound amazing, but Studers punch better.

I bet over half of the commercial rock records released in the last 10 years were mixed on an SSL.

I'd take that bet! But we'd have to define rock vs. pop with guitars. I'd ever bet it's more likely that more pop was done on a Neve or API (with Pro Tools) than rock was done on an SSL.

I agree that pop usually errors on cleaner more transparent gear, but it does not make me think SSL. SSL is the leading high budget mixing console.

you're on your own there!

[84K]

Originally posted by lucey
Well I still wonder what WWhitman will say.




So Richard Dodd could make the same records without his fave 1176s on every track? And Hendrix with a Les Paul and a POD? And a 001 for the Muddy Waters catalog?

Studio gear extends the sound of the artists, like foot pedals and guitars and amps extend the players hands. A lot of music could not be mixed without an SSL or Pro Tools due to the complexity of the mix. Simple music can use different (better) sounding gear with less features.

MM1200s sound amazing, but Studers punch better.




[/b]

I'd take that bet! But we'd have to define rock vs. pop with guitars. I'd ever bet it's more likely that more pop was done on a Neve or API (with Pro Tools) than rock was done on an SSL.


you're on your own there! [/B]

[84K]

Originally posted by lucey
Well I still wonder what WWhitman will say.




So Richard Dodd could make the same records without his fave 1176s on every track?

Yea, you're right. The hooks would not have been the same. The melodies would have sucked. The tracks would be useless. Are you serious?!!?

And Hendrix with a Les Paul and a POD? And a 001 for the Muddy Waters catalog?

So Jimi wouldn't be great with a pod and a paul? You don't know rock n roll brother. Stick with pop.

Studio gear extends the sound of the artists, like foot pedals and guitars and amps extend the players hands. A lot of music could not be mixed without an SSL or Pro Tools due to the complexity of the mix. Simple music can use different (better) sounding gear with less features.

1176s don't make songs dude. They are cool, but they don't make a song great. Recordings are audio pictures of moments in an artist's career. Do you think the photo of Lennon in the NYC shirt would be "less cool" if the photographer used a slightly different lens?

MM1200s sound amazing, but Studers punch better.

So?



[/b]

I'd take that bet! But we'd have to define rock vs. pop with guitars. I'd ever bet it's more likely that more pop was done on a Neve or API (with Pro Tools) than rock was done on an SSL.

You gotta be kinding me. Who cares?

you're on your own there! [/B]

Brain, sometimes you write some very interesting things. I don't want to belabour this post with a argument that is subjective at best. Agree to disagree.

[lawrence_o]

Hi,

Well if all goes well with the upload, here's a pic of my SSL. It's a 4056E/G with all those rare orange valve alike EQs.

All has been said already i.e. they're definetely the Merc of the consoles. However, for those who like open and warm sounds, have quite some budget though not enough for an SSL, I assure you that when using Pro Tools using PrismSound ADA-8 converters you'll have a sound that can compete with the biggest! There is NO way and I mean NO WAY in hell you can compare that with any of the digi converters, not even when aardSynced. I just did a fewq mixes on the ADA-8 alone and was suprised myself about the result! To be honest, 1 mix sounded even better than a mix I did on the SSL however, in all fairnes, the SSL mix was one with way more elements to get straight so it is not a fair comparison but still....

For those living in the neighbourhood (Belgium, Willebroek between Antwerp and Brussels) feel free to come and check it out.


Regards
Lawrence

Regards
Lorenzo

[lawrence_o]

Originally posted by wwittman
straight away... an SSL simply makes it all sound small and thin straight away.
It's certainly possible to work hard and make it work... but I find I use MUCH more outboard gear trying to get some rock and roll-ness back into the sound on an SSL than on other consoles.

Hi,

Although I've never mixed on a neve, I find it quite offensive to state that an SSL sounds small. No offense though :-)

I don't know which SSLs you've worked on and in what state they were, all I can tell you is that I don't even have to EQ that much before stuff sounds wide and warm on my SSL. About the Quad compressor, frankly, I find that when your mix is good i.e. if everything has the right level with a some individual compression here and there, I sometimes hear not much diff with the quad on unless I overdo it off course....

Regards
Lawrence

[lawrence_o]

Originally posted by wwittman
straight away... an SSL simply makes it all sound small and thin straight away.
It's certainly possible to work hard and make it work... but I find I use MUCH more outboard gear trying to get some rock and roll-ness back into the sound on an SSL than on other consoles.

Hi,

Although I've never mixed on a neve, I find it quite offensive to state that an SSL sounds small. No offense though :-)

I don't know which SSLs you've worked on and in what state they were, all I can tell you is that I don't even have to EQ that much before stuff sounds wide and warm on my SSL. About the Quad compressor, frankly, I find that when your mix is good i.e. if everything has the right level with a some individual compression here and there, I sometimes hear not much diff with the quad on unless I overdo it off course....

Regards
Lawrence

[Wiggy Neve Slut]

Lawrence what the big deal with the Orange e series EQ? i ahve seen them described as 'pultec' like.. is this just AE hyperbole or is there some truth to this. Im no expert on SSL's but i am interested in sorting this myth out?

Cheers
Wiggy

[lawrence_o]

Originally posted by Wiggy Neve Slut
Lawrence what the big deal with the Orange e series EQ? i ahve seen them described as 'pultec' like.. is this just AE hyperbole or is there some truth to this. Im no expert on SSL's but i am interested in sorting this myth out?

Cheers
Wiggy

Hi,

The guy I bought it from described them as 'The SSL Pultec simulation EQs'

I asked a technician from SSL and he descibed them as:
a variation to the brown eqs with valve curves. Like the pultec thus.

My opinion, I find that they literally cut or boost the mids with the precision of a razor blade and they do sound damn warm. On the other hand, they do not really boom the bass meaning they will not give extreme sub bass (but still nicely enough) but a more punchy bass.

Now the guy who sold it to me has another SSL with the latest black EQs and he says: "I cannot tell the difference, we should put them together". So in a few weeks I will exchange a few channels with him and see what it gives... But in general, yes, you could say they are Pultec alike only that SSL made them, not Pultec.

Regards
Lawrence

[Tim Halligan]

Originally posted by wwittman
... but the individual channel compressors are simply awful, in my opinion.

Someone once described SSL's to me as a really convenient way of storing a truckload of faders and gates. This guy had an old console from EMI Johannesburg, and used to insert the whole desk into the SSL which would only use the SSL for faders/automation and gates (and the 2-buss I guess) because he hated the sound of the eqs and comps so much.

...nice to have money...

Cheers,
Tim

[lawrence_o]

I'd say if 75% of the USA hit singles was mixed on an SSL, this guy didn't really seem to have grasped it... Maybe he should have become a shoe sales man or something ( no offense intended )

It really says more about the guy than about the SSL I can tell you that. The dynamics are simply fantastic and the EQ is simply wow.

Regards
Lawrence