yamaha pm1000 really the shi*

[kroad]

I hear of people racking modules of the 1000 and 2000
are people loving them because they are cheap (not for long)
or they really sound good , ?

[ulysses]

Originally posted by kroad
I hear of people racking modules of the 1000 and 2000
are people loving them because they are cheap (not for long)
or they really sound good , ?

Sure, they sound good but mostly they're cheap and easy to work on and are a good place to start learning to tinker (lots of space for bigger caps and stuff). When I hear about people paying $100 apiece for modules plus extra for the transformers, I just shake my head. I paid less than $250 for my entire console (and sold it for a bit more). At first I was opposed to chopping them up and racking modules, but now I'm all for it IF you don't pay too much and you do the work yourself and learn from it. The console is way too heavy and utterly lacking in mix features, so the channels are better suited for tracking than for mixing. But there are no direct outputs, so it's screaming for modification. All in all, turning the modules into tracking strips and making an educational experience out of it is probably the best use for these consoles. Four to eight beginner geeks can enjoy a single 16-channel console, learn about power supplies and discrete amplifier circuits, and end up with some gritty-sounding preamp/EQs.

[kroad]

cool , nice reply . exactly the info I was after . I have the dumb ass notion right now that I can build my own neve out of old radios and toasters , so the more info I get the more time I save . I know an old live sound mixer who has a ton of old consoles laying around and the pm 1000 is one of them . Do you know any thing about old midas consoles ?

[Elsteve9]

Wow...what else does your...friend....have laying around?



-Stephen

[warhead]

They're probably better suited for strips also as they're simply 4 buss boards with no direct outs...correct?

I know Fletcher had one and moved to the PM2000 which has balanced direct outs.

War

[Jim Williams]

Originally posted by warhead
They're probably better suited for strips also as they're simply 4 buss boards with no direct outs...correct?

I know Fletcher had one and moved to the PM2000 which has balanced direct outs.

War

You can add the direct outs if you sacrifice the group outs and return jacks for them. The messy part is the edge connector uses all the pins on the component side. You can add direct outs using the unused pins on the other side of the connector but you would need to find a way to remove them for service.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[Fletcher]

You can add insert points and direct outs without sacrificing anything... it ain't rocket surgery.

I still have my PM-1k but I want like $1,500 for it so it'll probably stay in my possession for a good while to come... I'm not all that bummed about that.

[kausionNOW]

I saw a link about racking a Yamaha PM1000 and thought you may be interested in seeing it.

http://www.fivefish.net/diy/PM1000/default.asp

[Elsteve9]

Hey guys...I"m thinkin' about pickin' up a PM1000. Right now all of my stuff goes straight to DAW though an Aphex 207 (their low end mic preamp w/ refracted plate tube design).
Is this PM1000 going to sound drastically better?

I notice right now that everything I do sounds...kinda thin. Not really THIN, but...not thick, either. I hope that's helpful.
Sometimes stuff sounds harsh. I can fix it a little with micing, etc, but it's always sort of there.

I also happen to have a couple fairly bright mics...but that's next on the list. :-)

-Stephen

[thermos]

Pm 1000 will probably smack aphex. They are great. The only problem I have is a slight lack in sub information (someone told me its due to a low microferet value whatever thing, I don't know anything about that stuff). So it won't sound as wide as say a neve, but its got that fun top end grit stuff. I'm really happy with mine.

[Sammas]

There is what seems to be a prefectly fine, and complete PM1000 being parted out on ebay as we speak.

It seems like such a waste. Im sure he'll get more for the complete console than selling pairs of channels...

[rsolinski]

A buddy of mine brought an API 312 and his 70's U87 by a few weeks ago..we did some tracking...we also a/b 'ed the 312 to my PM1000...both were VERY good. Different, but entirely professional. He crapped when he heard the price of the 1000 and immediately commisioned a pair from me and this guy has a room full of G.A.S...Neve, Voxbox, API etc...If you are handy with a soldering iron you can't come close to this quality at 5 times the cost...
Gee, that said I hope the price doesn't skyrocket :)

Ray

[Jim Williams]

Originally posted by thermos
Pm 1000 will probably smack aphex. They are great. The only problem I have is a slight lack in sub information (someone told me its due to a low microferet value whatever thing, I don't know anything about that stuff). So it won't sound as wide as say a neve, but its got that fun top end grit stuff. I'm really happy with mine.

That can be easily fixed. Replace the .47 uf tantalum cap off the transformer with a 3.3 uf Wima poly film cap. Do the same around the fader amp. Replace the 33 uf output cap to a 220 uf especially if you use it as a direct out. Replacing and enlarging the other electrolytic caps will also extend the low end. For a clearer, more detailed top use Wima .01 uf MKP-2 400 volt poly caps across the electrolytic and tantalum caps for more air.

For lower noise and a cleaner top end, replace the Jap NPN transistors with Motorola MPS-A18 transistors from Mouser Electronics.

Enjoy, Jim Williams
Audio Upgades

[sleepwalker]

Originally posted by Sammas
There is what seems to be a prefectly fine, and complete PM1000 being parted out on ebay as we speak.

It seems like such a waste. Im sure he'll get more for the complete console than selling pairs of channels...

Wish that was true. I had a 32 channel PM-1000 and was moving, I would have taken it with me, but I had already extinguished the goodwill of my friends with the last 2 moves. I put it up for sale on HC.com and craigslist for $500, then $400. Finally I tore it apart and sold the pieces on ebay for $1100 or so. I ended up taking the chassis to the dump. I offered $30 for someone to take it from me, but no one would.

Dan

[blakbeltjonez]

Originally posted by Jim Williams
That can be easily fixed. Replace the .47 uf tantalum cap off the transformer with a 3.3 uf Wima poly film cap. Do the same around the fader amp. Replace the 33 uf output cap to a 220 uf especially if you use it as a direct out. Replacing and enlarging the other electrolytic caps will also extend the low end. For a clearer, more detailed top use Wima .01 uf MKP-2 400 volt poly caps across the electrolytic and tantalum caps for more air.

For lower noise and a cleaner top end, replace the Jap NPN transistors with Motorola MPS-A18 transistors from Mouser Electronics.

Enjoy, Jim Williams
Audio Upgades

thanks for the info, Jim - i have a couple of questions:

1. is that that 3.3 poly cap a polystyrene or polypropolene cap and do they
differ all that much in general? (i.e., can i use one type in place of another
without much change in sound)

2. those .01 poly's go across every electrolytic and tantalum cap in the
input module, even the little 4.7 uf electros? (actually i can figure
out what's not neccessary, like anything associated with the echo1 & 2
sends). basically any cap that's involved in any part of the main signal
path gets those .01 shunting caps (i guess to improve behavior of the
electrolytics at higher freq's).

3. and my third question of the "couple of questions", is there anything you
might recommend to improve the usefulness of the EQ? i know this is
pretty subjective but if there was something your years and ears thought
was good i'd be up for trying it.


my apologies in advance for the FNG electronics questions..

[Sammas]

Originally posted by sleepwalker
Wish that was true. I had a 32 channel PM-1000 and was moving, I would have taken it with me, but I had already extinguished the goodwill of my friends with the last 2 moves. I put it up for sale on HC.com and craigslist for $500, then $400. Finally I tore it apart and sold the pieces on ebay for $1100 or so. I ended up taking the chassis to the dump. I offered $30 for someone to take it from me, but no one would.

Dan

Maybe you should have kept it for a little longer... but i do understand where you are coming from, i just hate seeing perfectly fine consoles being parted out...

This 24channel PM-1000 went for over $1200 about a week ago.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW

[sleepwalker]

Originally posted by Sammas
Maybe you should have kept it for a little longer... but i do understand where you are coming from, i just hate seeing perfectly fine consoles being parted out...

This 24channel PM-1000 went for over $1200 about a week ago.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW

Yeah, had to move though, couldn't move it by myself. Bummer.

[Jim Williams]

thanks for the info, Jim - i have a couple of questions:

1. is that that 3.3 poly cap a polystyrene or polypropolene cap and do they
differ all that much in general? (i.e., can i use one type in place of another
without much change in sound)

2. those .01 poly's go across every electrolytic and tantalum cap in the
input module, even the little 4.7 uf electros? (actually i can figure
out what's not neccessary, like anything associated with the echo1 & 2
sends). basically any cap that's involved in any part of the main signal
path gets those .01 shunting caps (i guess to improve behavior of the
electrolytics at higher freq's).

3. and my third question of the "couple of questions", is there anything you
might recommend to improve the usefulness of the EQ? i know this is
pretty subjective but if there was something your years and ears thought
was good i'd be up for trying it.


my apologies in advance for the FNG electronics questions.. [/quote]

Those 3.3 uf's are 5 mm polyester or mylar film. They fit perfectly. The polypropylene film .01's will overcome their soft sound.

I put these .01's across every electrolytic cap as they lower high frequency impedance, even the power supply bypass caps.

I put the Wima MKP-2 caps in the EQ. I can't fix the bass EQ as it's set by the inductor. I also lowered the value of the hi EQ cap to raise the EQ out of the mids somewhat.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[thermos]

Sammas,
that ebay link is actually a 16 channel, with 4 busses, etc. i guess they are going up. I got mine super clean for $600.

[jthoen]

"For lower noise and a cleaner top end, replace the Jap NPN transistors with Motorola MPS-A18 transistors from Mouser Electronics"

hey Jim,

thanks for all the upgrades and mods. This one sounds nice however mouser does not seem to have them and I cant really find them anywhere else. Am I missing something? Are the Fairchild mpsa18 any good? Or where could I get some of the motorola's?

thanks
joe

[Dan Kennedy]

Joe,

I have them in thousands, come on back over with a count of what you need.

[jthoen]

Thanks Dan,

I will give you a call. I order all the parts form digikey on monday and they should be here today. Hopefully I will have the board up an running by this weekend. Thanks again for your help!

joe

[iflyinmymind]

Hey everyone interested in the pm1000 direct outs...after 2 months of gathering info from some kind souls who have done this...I finished wiring the direct outs. I did it the easiest way possible and would be more than happy to show everyone interested with some nice photos.

These are the steps involved in my easy way - replacing capacitors, which I myself have not done yet, but am very interested in.

1. remove the channel strip and take off the face plate
2. remove the echo 2 trim pot and tape it off, tape off the wires connected to the board directly below this hole (the clearance is just enough and you will need to do this for safety), tape off the metal bracket next to where the pot used to be.
3. drill out the holes on both with a 1/2 bit.
4. Install a TRS jack. Leave a connector in the jack to make sure the face plate fits over it correctly, and is centered.
5. Remove the metal plate protecting the soldered side of the board.
6. Aquire output transformers..then tape them upright next to the board...this should make it so the blue and green wires which connect to the output jack from the output transformer will not have to have extra lead wires soldered on..b/c most of them should be long enough to reach this way.
7. solder lead wires to the brown and red wires.
8. The Brown wire will be soldered onto the board at the output of C37 which is labeled BO on the board.
9. The red ground wire will be soldered to the ground plane which is the long strip that runs the length of the board.


There you go...took me a long time to figure it out..but this way is easiest b/c you do not have to figure out how to get the output wires to the back of the mixer itself.

To me its handy having the outputs coming out of the top..to anyone else..it wll be way more difficult so good luck.

If anyone can help me with info on all the capacitors that should be replaced..then I am all ears.

Also I have a question. I remove the two output transformers from the echo channel..If I leave this channel plugged in..will it cause any electrical problems...for instance a blown power supply?

I should mention that I have owned an api3124 and the Vintech1272 and after recording with the Pm1000 I would say it is definately in the same ballpark. Those other preamps are just too much money for my project studio, so now I just have an RNP and the Pm1000.

-------------------
Todd Seibel

[iflyinmymind]

Does anyone know if in the 16 channel version..or any for that matter...

Can you take the 4 master modules and somehow ad 4 more preamps. The question is: The inputs for the master channels are for the 4 playback inputs that are supposed to come from a 4 track tape machine, and are only assignable from the master module itself, so if you took those out..could you ad preamps and wire then to those modules easily?

Anyway..maybe too hard to do....

Thanks..and I hope my direct out scheme is of use.
-------------------
Todd Seibel

[mig27]

I was just lucky (I mean REALLY lucky) and scored a PM1000 for 250 euros "buy it now" at eBay.

Can anyone point me to a link with the manual and schematic?
It's supposed to be on Yamaha's website but I can't seem to find it...

Thanks


Michael

[r0ck1r0ck2]

Well if you already have it....
I'm sure some others will want it

just do a search for "pm-1000"



Here It Is

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally Posted by Elsteve9

Hey guys...I"m thinkin' about pickin' up a PM1000. Right now all of my stuff goes straight to DAW though an Aphex 207 (their low end mic preamp w/ refracted plate tube design).
Is this PM1000 going to sound drastically better?

Better? Maybe...it depends on the ear of the beholder...but the magic 8-ball says "probably".

One thing that you might want to ponder is Ulysses response. At this point a PM1K or 2K is old enough to drink. For the best sonics it'll need caps, plus it'll be filled with dirty pots, sticky and nosiy switches etc. It's a great project to learn on and a kool sidecar for tracking or doing monitor mixes but it'll need some work to put the 'fun' back in functional.

I cut a demo on a PM2K a few months ago that was in the middle of a recap and no doubt...it sounded better after the new caps (top and bottom were extended about two octaves) but I couldn't mix a record on one. Nor would I even attempt to...based on flexibility & routing, I'd rather stay ITB or get a Folcrom then rip my hair out on that thing. After all, it IS a live console.

[Calaveras]

I have a PM1000 I picked up on the cheap. i am looking towards gutting it and racking up 8 of the pres and 2 outputs a s a simple 8x2 mixer. I have gone over the schematic and decided to wire the direct outs off of the backplane where the edge connector connects. I am going to go after it with a dremel and cut the traces for the pins that carry sub 3/4 and use those for my direct outs. I am also going to install a switch that will let me bring in a line level and switch between line and mic level. So I can use it a a DAW mixer.

Problems I am having so far:
cant find a suitable rack box to put it in. I want like an 8-10 space box that is about 8 inches deep or so. I am trying to keep the channels intact and just chop off the faders (put a good conductive plastic instead).
I also am debating whether to go transformer for the direct outs or SE unbalanced straight off the pin. I did a conversion on a PM180 a little while ago like this. I did two channels transformer, 2 channels SE unbalanced, 2 channels routed thru the master outs. It works nicely for thickening drum machines and keyboards. Though I am concerned about a DC voltage showing up on my direct outs if there is no transformer.

[ulysses]

Though I am concerned about a DC voltage showing up on my direct outs if there is no transformer.

There is an electrolytic coupling capacitor at the output of the channel amplifier that feeds the buss assigns and pan pots (I don't recall the exact arrangement, but I believe it's a 33µF cap). This is the intelligent place to take your direct output signal (unless you want to use an echo send to give you a separate fader for it). The coupling cap's job is to prevent any DC from getting out, and it will work just as well for keeping DC off your 1/4" jack or your output transformer as it has been for the master buss inputs. It is now an old, probably dried up, probably leaky electrolytic capacitor that needs to be replaced. Put a good new one in there, and make it bigger. Open up the Digikey catalog to the page with the Panasonic FM capacitors and find the ones that have the same voltage rating and the same lead spacing. Make sure the new one isn't going to be too tall or too wide to fit in the space available. If there are several choices available, go with the highest capacitance that will fit. It'll probably be a couple hundred microfarads, and it will improve the low end response, which would otherwise suffer due to your new output load. Make sure you observe correct polarity when you install it.

[Jim Williams]

The Panasonic FM 220 uf 25 v fits very well. If a transformer is used, go with the 470 uf 25v thin case. Add a 10~22 ohm resistor in series to avoid capacitive loading and to drive the transformer primary without distortion.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades