In search of multi-tap delay with multi outs

[DanV]

What are some delay units that have 3 or more taps and 3 or more outputs for the individual taps? I'm having trouble finding any delay units like this,, but I sure want to. I am not in need of a plugin like this.

Thanks dudes~

[DanV]

nock nock

[Synth80s]

Hi Dan,

2 suggestions:

1) I had a Sony DPS-V55 for a couple years. It was 4-in, 4-out and could nominally be configured as a quad-mono processor or dual-stereo FX processor. There were a few patches in the "3D" category which output reverbs and modulations to all 4 outputs from one patch, but I don't think there was any quad or 3D delay where each delay tap could be controlled in one patch. To achieve your goal, you could use this unit it as 2 stereo delays and mult your regular mono or stereo source into all 4 inputs. That way, you have the same input using both delays on all on 4 outputs. These are available used for ~$200.

Sony, like so many other manufacturers has ZERO info about the unit on their website -- it's almost like they like to pretend they never produced products that weren't big successes. Google provided a link to the algorithm list showing the various signal routings (check out algorithms 14 and 15):

http://lmbpc.lincoln.ac.uk/audio/dps-v55.pdf

Here's a summary from Mix mag:

"Carrying on Sony's multi-effects tradition is the DPS-V77's follow-up, the DPS-V55 ($550). With the same DSP brains as the 77, the 55 offers up an impressive list of effects and bonus features that include an effects search tool and tap-tempo input control. Forty-five effects include reverbs, delays, modulation, pitch-shifts, filters, vocal cancel, vocoder, compression, 3-D sound and 4-channel surround algorithms, and the two-space rackmount unit boasts 20-bit A/D-D/A converters and 52-bit internal audio processing. The DPS-V55's 11/44-inch analog connectors can be configured as 4x4 mono or two simultaneous true- stereo I/Os; there's 200 custom producer-designed programs and 200 user slots available, and owners can download a free PC-based editor/librarian software program from Sony's Web site."

2) At the other extreme of the price spectrum, I imagine the Kurzweil KSP-8 can do this. It comes with 4 outputs standard (expandable to 8) and has surround algorithms built-in. I bet there's a multi-tap delay assignable to multiple outs, but research it to be sure.

Good Luck!
Synth80s

[mattasbob]

TC electronics 2290 is the one of the best delay units ever made (imo) Check it out, not cheap but fantastic sounding!

[DanV]

thanks for the advice guys,

synth80's,, does that sony unit have zipper noise or can it get nice and wobbly???

cheers!

[Synth80s]

Originally posted by DanV
thanks for the advice guys,

synth80's,, does that sony unit have zipper noise or can it get nice and wobbly???

cheers!

Damn, it's been a while since I used the Sony so it's hard to offer anything more than my impressions. While I don't see it replacing any real analog delays, I don't recall it sounding grainy or nasty at all like some less expensive FX processors. I remember that the overall character of the Sony was different than anything else in my rack -- not too clean or overly clinical -- most sounds were very pretty "in your face," not subtle. In addition to the standard fare, there were lots of special and multi-FX patches. And, for what it's worth, the verbs sounded like nothing else I'd used -- definitely not another Lexicon emulation. I found them useful for dense vocals and piano, not as useful for drums.

I sold it because I was downsizing my rig a bit and I found that I used the Sony (and an unmentionably cheap Lexicon unit) less than other FX. That and I got it new for $165 on a dealer accomodation, so I sold it for a gain after several years of use.

Unfortunately, odds are you'll never get a chance to hear one unless you buy one because they're not at all common.

-Synth80s

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by Synth80s
Hi Dan,
Here's a summary from Mix mag:

"Carrying on Sony's multi-effects tradition is the DPS-V77's follow-up, the DPS-V55 ($550).

This is why you shouldn't go by specs.

The DPS-V77 and V55 sound totally different.

The V55 is much darker.

It was engineered to blend more in the mixes than poke out.

Only problem is the the DPS-V77 plates & halls do that already so the V55 programs at times get too buried.

[threm]

A hands-on approach could be an Akai Headrush.

http://www.akaipro.com/us/e2.html¨
http://www.loopers-delight.com/tools.../Headrush.html

"HEADRUSH can also simulate a 4-head analog tape echo machine and it is possible to set the spacing between these 'virtual' heads to create complex multiple delays and repeats. Furthermore, the outputs of each of these virtual heads appear on individual outputs for ultimate flexibility when used with an external mixing console."

"The LOOPING RECORDER mode allows you to record and overdub layer after layer of sound in real-time making HEADRUSH an unbelievable live performance tool."

The new reissued one is blue.

[bjornson]

I have this old audio distribution box with 2 inputs some nasty 16 bit conversion and 24 discrete balanced outs, all with up to 750 ms of delay on each output. It was meant to delay a set of ceiling spkrs outward from wherever you had a stage. crazy pc interface etc...
Pain in the ass to hook up but it sure is fun!

[Albert]

The Ensoniq DP/4 znd DP/4+ will do what you need.

As I remember, the Korg SDD-3300 also has individual outputs for each delay line.

Also, there's a delay made by Klark Teknik called the SN-716 that has three outputs for three different delay times. I believe that it more of PA time alignment thing, but it may work for what you need.

[Synth80s]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
This is why you shouldn't go by specs.

Agreed. I just threw that blurb in so Dan would have some idea of what the box was about. Sony's site has no product info at all and I doubt he'll ever bump into one of these boxes in person. All the Sonys seem pretty rare.

-Synth80s

[tINY]

Of course, the BSS omnidrive has comprehensive eq and delay for each of its 6 outputs....



-tINY

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by Synth80s
Agreed. I just threw that blurb in so Dan would have some idea of what the box was about. Sony's site has no product info at all and I doubt he'll ever bump into one of these boxes in person. All the Sonys seem pretty rare.

-Synth80s

[DanV]

Thanks everyone!
This thread needed to happen, I was having very slow success just searching on my own. I'll look further into all of these units mentioned.

I guess my question for you all now is -- are any of these good at being modulated? If i were to drastically change the delay times by hand would they get all zipper or would they be smooth and warbley?? This is something specs and reviews barely ever mention.

Thanks!

[Synth80s]

Originally posted by DanV
I guess my question for you all now is -- are any of these good at being modulated? If i were to drastically change the delay times by hand would they get all zipper or would they be smooth and warbley?? This is something specs and reviews barely ever mention.

Here is my overly broad reply: if the processor is analog, you're generally going to get that great modulated sound, but with relatively short delay times. For digital processors (as a general rule), the more powerful the DSP (often meaning the more $$$ the unit), the better chance you'll have that the delays can be modulated using realtime controllers without zipper noise.

I can say for sure that my Ensoniq DP/Pro (which kicks complete ass, BTW -- an unknown gem) can modulate digital delays well and make great warbly noises. Based on this experience, it's *possible* that the DP4 or DP4+ can do this as well, but only someone who has one or has access to try this trick can say for sure. I'd also imagine that the KSP-8 has enough juice to pull this off.

If you can't find one 4-channel box at the price you're looking for, you might want to consider two stereo boxes (maybe even some analog delays) with great modulated delays.

3 Questions:

1) How much delay time do you need?
2) How do you want to modulate the delay (i.e. front panel knobs, MIDI, Sysex, etc.)?
3) What's your budget?

-Synth80s

[DanV]

Originally posted by Synth80s

3 Questions:

1) How much delay time do you need?
2) How do you want to modulate the delay (i.e. front panel knobs, MIDI, Sysex, etc.)?
3) What's your budget?

-Synth80s

1) not much, at least around 2-4 seconds.
2) must be able to modulate via front panel controls, onboard lfo's and perhaps cv woud be added pluses but not important.
3) i'm hoping to find something that is just 4 delay taps, not a crazy expensive multi effect, but multi effects are welcome(if they modulate well),, i'd like to not go over $300.

the headrush I'm considering but I've heard bad stories about them getting messed up and outputting 8 bit grime. it would be sweet to find an analog solution.

thanks for all the help,, i try to do all my own research but sometimes it just doesn't prove very efficient.... hey at least this is a tad more specialized and more of a grey area than the loads of "what pre do i need to sound like a superstar?" threads.

[Albert]

Well, a delay that has stereo or mono input and stereo output, and front panel control over delay time (and practically any other parameter) is the Korg DL-8000R. There's what they call a "warp" knob on the front that allows you to change parameters on the fly. Doesn't have the three outputs, but is a multi-tap unit.

[Synth80s]

Originally posted by DanV
1) not much, at least around 2-4 seconds.
2) must be able to modulate via front panel controls, onboard lfo's and perhaps cv woud be added pluses but not important.
3) i'm hoping to find something that is just 4 delay taps, not a crazy expensive multi effect, but multi effects are welcome(if they modulate well),, i'd like to not go over $300.

This is a pretty tall order, man!

I can't think of any analog delay (aside from tape) that is capable of 2-4 second delays. Until fairly recently, with the advent of ever-cheaper memory, many digital boxes weren't capable of delays this long. Many older budget FX boxes top out at 1.5 or 2 seconds of stereo delay and most can only produce shorter times on multi-tap delays.

Given your price point and your desire for real-time controls, I'd suggest you look at a pair of some cheaper guitar-oriented delays like the Line 6 DL-4 (you could probably find two of these for $350-400) or maybe that Akai. If you're brave, you could try to pickup an Ensoniq DP4+ or Sony DPS-V55 and do some MIDI/sysex programming to control it with something like this: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...se_pid/701762/ or this http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...se_pid/701763/

-Synth80s