PCI Express replacing PCI, what should we do?

[NathanEldred]

I figured this was on topic considering it probably effects 90% of us. With newer PC motherboards (not sure about what's going on with Mac's, but this probably applies) many are going to PCI express only. At what point will the audio industry be forced to go to PCI Express? The thought of all these unusable digital interface cards and DSP processing cards is a bit scarey too.

[OzNimbus]

Grab a copy of SawStudio and a Fireface! That takes care of your DSP and your interface in one shot. :)

[jazzius II]

Originally posted by NathanEldred
The thought of all these unusable digital interface cards and DSP processing cards is a bit scarey too.

Or you could see the cup as half full......in other words, look forward to all these cool sound/DSP cards hitting the second hand market cheap! ......spend the money saved on some kewl analog stuff that'll never go out of fashion

[NathanEldred]

Thanks for the help, maybe I should specify a little more. I already have my system refined as far as software platform (Samplitude) and a ton of high end analog hardware plus 2" 16 track and 1/4" mixdown. If you know me you know I'm not a big digital head, but it's necessary never the less.

In the not distant future PCI Express might be the only thing available on a new motherboard. This presents a problem to current production models of PCI cards.

Yes PCI Express it's faster, that's a good thing. But if I'm going to build a new computer now (I'm running a PIV 1.9 and it's time to move up), I could go two ways. PCI X or regular PCI.

If I do PCI X, I've got nothing to use in the slots because none of the manufacturers are making anything for it (i.e. RME or Lynx).

If I do standard PCI, at what point does the cross over take place where manufacturers are forced to adhere to the new PCI X platform?

Think about the ramifications. Somebody that buys an HD3 system today will never be able to upgrade their computer (if they want to keep their interface and DSP cards that is) if everything goes PCI X.

A person with two Lynx AES 16's and a couple of UAD cards is in the same boat.

[tINY]

Go with an IEEE 1394 (firewire) interface. You pay a little more for the hardware, but it will be compatable for a ong time to come (I still have stuff that runs on 9-pin RS-232 and it all works with my new laptop).



-tINY

[Mind-Over-Midi]

I'm sure that Magma will come out with a PCI to PCI-X expansion chassis. Which may ease your transition pain, for a price.

[Scinx]

Yes, I would say adapters will come out into the market that allow for PCI cards to be plugged into PCI-Express ports.

[OzNimbus]

Originally posted by NathanEldred

A person with two Lynx AES 16's and a couple of UAD cards is in the same boat. [/b]

Nathan, I certainly understand your position. I was in the same place years ago when the big switch was made from ISA to PCI.

Needless to say, when an audio computer is built, it's a contained unit, and is only "outdated" depending on your mindset.
If it works, it works. That's why there are still PARIS sytems out there powering studios.

As for compatibility with future motherboards, I wouldn't get too worried. It took some manufacturers years to get rid of the ISA slots. My guess, based on past trends, is that PCI & PCI express will be available together on the same board for quite a while..... Audio PCs won't be the only systems effected by the change. The enitre world isn't going to throw out thier PCI cards any time soon, and the motherboard manufacturers know that.

-0z-

[radiospace]

Originally posted by NathanEldred
In the not distant future PCI Express might be the only thing available on a new motherboard. This presents a problem to current production models of PCI cards.

Yes PCI Express it's faster, that's a good thing. But if I'm going to build a new computer now (I'm running a PIV 1.9 and it's time to move up), I could go two ways. PCI X or regular PCI.

If I do PCI X, I've got nothing to use in the slots because none of the manufacturers are making anything for it (i.e. RME or Lynx).

If I do standard PCI, at what point does the cross over take place where manufacturers are forced to adhere to the new PCI X platform?

There's some confusion, here.

PCI-X is *not* PCI Express. (I've seen PCI Express abbreviated PCIe). PCI-X, which is what Apple uses in its high-end PowerMacs, is both compatible and backwards compatible with PCI. In other words you can put PCI cards in a PCI-X slot, and PCI-X cards in a PCI slot. (With a few exceptions...some older PCI cards like early M-Audio Delta series audio cards don't work in PCI-X slots due to changes that occurred to the PCI spec over the years).

PCI Express, on the other hand, is not compatible with PCI (in either direction).

As long as Apple continues to use PCI-X, that should insure that audio products are available that use PCI or PCI-X in order to supply PowerMac customers. I would think it would be quite some time before PCI-compatible cards are obsolete for this reason alone.

Also as others have pointed out, even if everyone (including Apple) switches to PCIe, there will have to be some mechanism for using existing products (either motherboards with both PCI-X and PCIe or adapters), because audio manufacturers can't start producing PCIe devices until people have PCIe slots in their audio workstations, and people won't buy audio workstations with only PCIe slots until there are audio products available to replace all their PCI gear.

[DannyDay]

Originally posted by radiospace
...As long as Apple continues to use PCI-X, that should insure that audio products are available that use PCI or PCI-X in order to supply PowerMac customers...

From what I'm hearing, the new Macs will be PCI Express not PCI-X. However, like radiospace mentioned, it'll be a while before it matters... as long as you hang on to your old Mac.

DD.

[zimv20]

Originally posted by DannyDay
From what I'm hearing, the new Macs will be PCI Express not PCI-X.

"new" as in out now (they have pci-x) or "new" as in someday? if the latter, where did you get this info?

[radiospace]

MacWorld San Francisco starts Tuesday. It's not out of the question that they would change the PowerMacs from PCI-X to PCI-express during next week's event with a new revision. Even if that were to happen there's a large user base in place just with current G5 owners (not to mention people still using their G4s) to ensure PCI cards will be necessary for several more years in the Mac universe.

But if I was building a PC I'd certainly wait a few days to see what is announced at MacWorld if I was trying to gauge where we are in the migration to PCI Express. (But you'll still need PCI slots for your current cards, so do you really have a choice?)

[NathanEldred]

Originally posted by radiospace
There's some confusion, here.

PCI Express, on the other hand, is not compatible with PCI (in either direction).

This is what I was referring to then.

[Slider]

My MoBo has only one PCI slot and many PCI-Xpress, so I will be welcoming this change.

[oudplayer]

Some PCI cards will work in PCI-X slots. It depends on the voltage of the card. (PCI allowed varying voltages; 3.5, 5v in their standard; PCI-X is fixed at one voltage). I know that the Digi001, for example, will NOT work in PCI-X slots, though the Digidesign Accel cards will. I don't know about Lynx - I think they'll work in PCI-X slots.

[SeventhCircle]

This is the first PCI-E to PCI-X adapter I'm aware of: http://www.sbs.com/products/774. Magma can't be far behind.

[Kubilay]

NuBus, anyone? I'd put money on the fact that PCI is going to be exctinct in the near future. Once Apple switches (after PC's already have) that's the end of it, just like it was back when.

I just sold $5k worth of NuBus cards on eBay for a total of maybe $100...?

My PCI interface is going to be useful as long as my 2x2G5 is in use, after that I'm afraid it'll net another $35, woohoo!

[T_R_S]

I would not hold my breath on PCI X as it will probably not last as there is new stuff out there that is better than PCI X

[Radar - 3]

I wouldn't worry too much about PCI-Express yet. Most full ATX motherboards from Abit, Asus, MSI and Gigabyte (Intel 915P and 925X chipset mobo's) still have 2-3 PCI slots and IMO they will continue to do so in much the same way ISA slots did when PCI was introduced.

Keep in mind also that Abit, Asus, and Gigabyte (probably others too) are making Pentium 4 LGA775 mobo's with the older Intel 865PE chipset which is identical to the Socket 478 counterparts except for the new LGA775 socket, meaning they support Dual DDR400, AGP 8X and have at least 5 PCI slots with obvious other options like Firewire and LAN ect ect....