Plase help me WIDEN my mix!

[Awake&Rehearse]

Hello, I'm having issue widening my mixes...by widening I'm referring to when I listen back (after adding a stereo master fader and an Ozone plug-in) and compare it to my reference track, my mix doens't sound as wide as the reference mix.

Please find the track here: MySpace.com - aerecording - SHAWNEE, Kansas - Rock - www.myspace.com/alexerecording

Any tips or techniques that I can use to essentially "Widen" my mix would be greatly appreciated!

[Mr.HOLMES]

Originally Posted by Awake&Rehearse

Hello, I'm having issue widening my mixes...by widening I'm referring to when I listen back (after adding a stereo master fader and an Ozone plug-in) and compare it to my reference track, my mix doens't sound as wide as the reference mix.

Please find the track here: MySpace.com - aerecording - SHAWNEE, Kansas - Rock - www.myspace.com/alexerecording

Any tips or techniques that I can use to essentially "Widen" my mix would be greatly appreciated!

Always the same Questions but it is fun to answer them.
Why I am the first???

Ok a wide stereo image is going to happen during the mixing stage IMO not in mastering. In mastering they may correct my stereo image a bit but they wont take care for the whole thing.

Here are some ideas to improve you skills on stereo broadness.
Remember how a stereo signal is setup:
Left = Mid + Side, Right = Mid - Side (the polarity-reversed side-signal)

There are a lot of Plug Ins which let you hear the Left or Right.

Panning?
Try Paning this way L / C / R nothing else.
I read this in an CLA interview and was amazed how wide my tracks can get.

Listen to the Beatles Song Eleanor Rigby!!!
Try to overcome the inner panning square head on your own mixes.

Reverb/Delays
Reverb and delays give you the posiblty to go into the broadness.
A small room on a voice will also appear in side signals of your stereo image.
Some stereo delays on different instruments with short reverb times would help also.

One Basic Idea.
Do not let the thing do stereo widening plug (Like in Ozone) on the mixbus.
This mostly means also a bad relation to your mono compatibility.

Use a Goniometer if you mix.


If you get a big sausage in the middle your mix is broad and wide the meter verifies what you hear out of your speakers.


But do search in the FORUM this have been topics many times.

[Barish]

Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES

Try Paning this way L / C / R nothing else.
I read this in an CLA interview and was amazed how wide my tracks can get.

That's what Terry Manning had said, and it was so true.

M.

[Andreas G]

Originally Posted by Awake&Rehearse

Please find the track here: MySpace.com - aerecording - SHAWNEE, Kansas - Rock - www.myspace.com/alexerecording

Dude, that's a mono track!

[christmasjones]

Originally Posted by Andreas G

Dude, that's a mono track!

[MC Blind]

Terry Manning and CLA are my heroes.

News flash guys. If the mix isn't mono it will have information on the left, center and right. These guys are just being dicks because they apparently have some mental issues...

[Mr.HOLMES]

Originally Posted by MC Blind

Terry Manning and CLA are my heroes.

News flash guys. If the mix isn't mono it will have information on the left, center and right. These guys are just being dicks because they apparently have some mental issues...

It s not about to sound like CLA.
It is just a technique which I he told in one of his endles interviews.

For em it is about to find my own style.... being a CLA copy would not do the trick IMO.

[bgrotto]

Pan harder, don't pan too hard, keep the low mids clear, keep the high mids clear, keep the bottom clear and tight, don't use too much reverb, don't use too little reverb, consider that brighter instruments have more apparent directionality so pan them in extremes (hard left, center, hard right), watch your compression settings, watch your arrangement, etc etc etc.

In other words, keep practicing, referring to those reference CDs, and eventually, you'll get it. There are really no magic answers.

[Ironklad Audio]

i reach for the pan knob myself

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Ironklad Audio

i reach for the pan knob myself

It really is that simple.

[u b k]

another thumbsup for l/c/r panning.

from there, learn to harmonize instruments in your arrangement, and hardpan them out in order to get the notes/freqs spread l-r.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[Mr.HOLMES]

But it is right practice does the trick.
If it sounds good in the end everything is fine.

There are maybe some inspiration like we can give it here but you have to practice mix it new listen to to other CDs compare it destroy it again mix it new.

But it is true your arrangement must be good!!!

My self sometimes even today I destroy a basic mix because I want to start over again.

[FirstLoveStudio]

Originally Posted by u b k

another thumbsup for l/c/r panning.

from there, learn to harmonize instruments in your arrangement, and hardpan them out in order to get the notes/freqs spread l-r.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

RE these votes for hard panning. What about overheads? You always positioning your kit right the way across the stereo field?

Also, isn't hard left/right a bit of a difficult listen on headphones?

[u b k]

Originally Posted by FirstLoveStudio

Also, isn't hard left/right a bit of a difficult listen on headphones?

ime, the opposite is the case. things that are panned in middling spots often sound wierd.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[colinmiller]

Try panning all the instruments to the left and the cowbell to the right. You'll start getting into 'uber-wide'. Good times...

[amishsixstringe]

Question about the CLA panning technique... If you have an electric guitar recorded with 2 microphones, would you get the same results by panning the 2 tracks opposite and using the faders as a pan pot? It seems that doing so would really clog up the center, especially with a dense mix happening.

I won't be mixing any hard rock until probably tuesday or wednesday and don't really have time to pull up old sessions in the studio until then either, so i can't try this. I will when I have the chance, but I was just wondering if that was a commong practice among the Alge, or if it would more typically just be a blend of the 2 microphones both hard panned to one side.

thanks!

Neil

[danbronson]

Originally Posted by colinmiller

Try panning all the instruments to the left and the cowbell to the right. You'll start getting into 'uber-wide'. Good times...

Bruce Dickinson does this all the time. But he often has trouble getting enough cowbell.

[rashman]

Originally Posted by colinmiller

Try panning all the instruments to the left and the cowbell to the right. You'll start getting into 'uber-wide'. Good times...

I thought cowbell was left?

[theblue1]

Remember how a stereo signal is setup:
Left = Mid + Side, Right = Mid - Side (the polarity-reversed side-signal)

If the stereo track was recorded with an M/S (mid-side) stereo miking, that is. And you're still kind of fogging up the details.


But, anyway, mid-side miking is not that common.

Mid-side miking
03/09/2006
Mid-side miking is probably the most underused of stereo miking techniques. It sounds complicated, but it's really a pretty simple process.

Let's tackle the "why use mid-side" question, and then we'll get into how to effectively set it up. Mid-side offers the greatest control over the stereo image post-recording. With mid-side, you can control the amount of direct sound (from the mid mic) and the ambient sound (from the side mic) offering exceptional control over the stereo field width.



Mid-side also offers total mono compatibility. With the left and right signals combined, the summed output is solely from the mid pickup mic. And since you typically want less reverb with a mono signal than you'd want with a stereo signal, summing a mid-side recording to mono generates less of the natural ambient reverb from the side mic, making mid-side an excellent choice for stereo recordings that may eventually find their way into being broadcast in mono (like TV broadcasts).



First, you need the right tools. A mid-side setup consists of two microphones — one capable of producing a figure-8 polar pattern (the side mic), and one that has a cardioid pattern (the mid mic). You may also use another figure-8 or an omnidirectional mic in place of the cardioid mid mic. Feel free to experiment, as different polar patterns will produce different results. From here, the only additional tools needed are a recording medium, such as a DAW.

To set up a mid-side stereo configuration, place the cardioid mic where you would normally position it to capture direct sound from the source. Then place the figure-8 mic with its diaphragm at a 90-degree angle to the diaphragm of the cardioid mic. Now inside your DAW, route the mid mic to one channel, and route the side mic to a separate channel, and record.



To fully realize the mid-side you need to make a third, phase-correct track. Copy and paste the track from the side mic into a new track. To make the track phase correct you can use the "invert" command or reverse its phase or polarity in your DAW's software. Pan the mid track to the center, pan the "side" track to one side, and pan the inverted side track to the opposite side. Then use your DAW's "group tracks" (or whatever term your specific DAW uses) to set it so that both the original and copied side tracks change volume at the same time. Adjust the volume on the side tracks to add more or less stereo information to your tastes.



Mid-side miking is especially useful for miking small ensembles or any situation where a good amount of room sound is desired.

Tech Tips: Mid-side miking | Sweetwater.com

[colinmiller]

Originally Posted by rashman

I thought cowbell was left?

Oops, looks like I had my headphones on backwards.