what pres on VR series consoles?

[PaRaNoId]

After responding to the last thread I thought up one more canidate for best pre.....however I'm forgetful when it comes to remembering specs sometimes. What type of (1081, 1073, 1272, etc) pre's were in the NEVE 1992 VR series boards?

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by PaRaNoId
After responding to the last thread I thought up one more canidate for best pre.....however I'm forgetful when it comes to remembering specs sometimes. What type of (1081, 1073, 1272, etc) pre's were in the NEVE 1992 VR series boards?

They were Neve VR pre's.

[PaRaNoId]

do they do any rackmount versions of these guys?
IMO- fukkingg great for close-in vox and FLoor toms but kind of suck when stacked up (8+ tracks)

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by PaRaNoId
do they do any rackmount versions of these guys?
IMO- fukkingg great for close-in vox and FLoor toms but kind of suck when stacked up (8+ tracks)

There was a Neve VR rack long ago called the Prism rack.

Some people like them. some hate them.

I always liked the Neve VR EQ curves when mixing acoustic guitars.

I thought the pre's were Ok.

YMMV.

[adamcal]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
There was a Neve VR rack long ago called the Prism rack.

Some people like them. some hate them.


YMMV.

Im in the small group that likes em. I even bought one.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by adamcal
Im in the small group that likes em. I even bought one.

It was a lot of money though for what they were.

[adamcal]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
It was a lot of money though for what they were.

they were indeed expensive, but at the time, many years ago, all I had was a Tascam 3500 desk, thats it, no other pre's at all, the addition of the prisim was a quantum leap forward in the output of my studio, that in turn got me better jobs (as did having the NEVE name), I used the thing on everything, Id say it was well worth the money.

also at the time when they came out, there were very little other options aside from buying a whole desk, channel strips were not common at all, there were very few mic pre designers making cool outboard mic pres like now, or if they where there you didnt know about them as there was no internet and forums like this one to gather opinions.

anyway, anyone forced to record on a VR would not likley be complaining too much, and the prisims give you that sound. But its not the older Classic Neve sound, so if thats what you are looking for you may want to look elsewhere. It a cleaner sound, and thats why many people dont like em, they are expecting the 1073 ect sound.

[adamcal]

not a prism, something different
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....770741355&rd=1

and here is what the prism looks like
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....771819989&rd=1

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by adamcal
they were indeed expensive, but at the time, many years ago, all I had was a Tascam 3500 desk, thats it, no other pre's at all, the addition of the prisim was a quantum leap forward in the output of my studio, that in turn got me better jobs (as did having the NEVE name), I used the thing on everything, Id say it was well worth the money.

also at the time when they came out, there were very little other options aside from buying a whole desk, channel strips were not common at all, there were very few mic pre designers making cool outboard mic pres like now, or if they where there you didnt know about them as there was no internet and forums like this one to gather opinions.

anyway, anyone forced to record on a VR would not likley be complaining too much, and the prisims give you that sound. But its not the older Classic Neve sound, so if thats what you are looking for you may want to look elsewhere. It a cleaner sound, and thats why many people dont like em, they are expecting the 1073 ect sound.

I remember reading somewhere that Geoff T. said they were designed because people that had SSL studios wanted to have Neve's in the racks for the room.

AMS-Neve thought that if people bought these they wouldn't buy their bigger boards, so they pulled them out.

Its funny looking back now almost 20 years and there is a big flashing moniker on the screen touting the new AMS Neve outboard solutions.

I think their problem sonic wise is the problem a lot of the Neve racked gear has.

Sufficient or well designed power distribution.

I had heard about it for years, but it just became so clear to me lately when using the reissue Neve 1081's.

Over the years i have used tons of racked Neve mic/pre EQ's(professional and not) and to me there was always something lacking in the sound(part of the reason i've never been a big fan of the Neve sound on vocals).

Lately i've had a chance to use the reisssue 1081's in an AMS-Neve designed rack and the difference is night and day.

Cleaner,bigger sounding,clearer its an amazing difference.

[grahluk]

I had a Prism Rack. Loved it. Not the classic Neve sound but very cool none the less. IMO it sounded like Neve's answer to the hugely popular SSL's of that time. The EQ wasn't the instant fat butter magic of the classic Neve modules. To me it was more like the SSL eq but much smoother and punchier. I did some dancehall drums with the Neve that had the most violent punch ever. I was never able to come close to that with anything else. I even tried redoing those same tracks with Manley Pultecs, SSL G, and API 550b eq's. The only one that could sorta come close was the API. Interestingly enough I got it from a studio that had the Neve's racked up behind a SSL G. Story goes that the the mixers in the rooms wanted the Neve VR consoles but the studio was owned by an umbrella company that also happened to own SSL. So they got SSL. The consolation prize was each room also got a Neve Prism rack. If there's anything lacking with these Prism racks I don't think the power supply would be it. I don't know about other Neve rack gear but the PS on the Prism was freakin' huge. 2 rack spaces and the power umbilical to the Prism looked like it came from your local power utility. That thing could probably power a small console. In looking at the modules my guess at improvements would be in caps, op amps, and connections. The modules looked like compacted SSL modules. A sandwich of several daughter boards. Mad Labs could mod/upgrade these things to supposedly sound godly. I never got the chance to find out. Unfortunately I sold it because it was freakin' huge and I needed something more portable. I replaced it with an API lunchbox. Wish I could have both.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by grahluk
I had a Prism Rack. Loved it. Not the classic Neve sound but very cool none the less. IMO it sounded like Neve's answer to the hugely popular SSL's of that time. The EQ wasn't the instant fat butter magic of the classic Neve modules. To me it was more like the SSL eq but much smoother and punchier. I did some dancehall drums with the Neve that had the most violent punch ever. I was never able to come close to that with anything else. I even tried redoing those same tracks with Manley Pultecs, SSL G, and API 550b eq's. The only one that could sorta come close was the API. Interestingly enough I got it from a studio that had the Neve's racked up behind a SSL G. Story goes that the the mixers in the rooms wanted the Neve VR consoles but the studio was owned by an umbrella company that also happened to own SSL. So they got SSL. The consolation prize was each room also got a Neve Prism rack. If there's anything lacking with these Prism racks I don't think the power supply would be it. I don't know about other Neve rack gear but the PS on the Prism was freakin' huge. 2 rack spaces and the power umbilical to the Prism looked like it came from your local power utility. That thing could probably power a small console. In looking at the modules my guess at improvements would be in caps, op amps, and connections. The modules looked like compacted SSL modules. A sandwich of several daughter boards. Mad Labs could mod/upgrade these things to supposedly sound godly. I never got the chance to find out. Unfortunately I sold it because it was freakin' huge and I needed something more portable. I replaced it with an API lunchbox. Wish I could have both.

Grahluk,

I am sure that Geoff T. will check in on this since i think these fell under his special designs division.

I know in the past i've used different Prism racks and they all sounded different.

I think Musiclab has a Mad Labs modded Prism rack.

They always pop up from time to time.

[De chromium cob]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Over the years i have used tons of racked Neve mic/pre EQ's(professional and not) and to me there was always something lacking in the sound(part of the reason i've never been a big fan of the Neve sound on vocals).

Lately i've had a chance to use the reisssue 1081's in an AMS-Neve designed rack and the difference is night and day.

Cleaner,bigger sounding,clearer its an amazing difference.

I have a pair of reissue 1081s in a Mercenary Audio Rack that sound just like the reissue 1081s in the 8 channel and 2 channel AMS racks and power supply.....
Which racks have that big of a negative effect on the sound?
So I guess the crux of the biscuit is the size of the power supply? You would think for the kind of money those sell for people wouldnt skimp on the power!

[PaRaNoId]

thanks for all the extra info thus far...im lovin it!

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by De chromium cob
I have a pair of reissue 1081s in a Mercenary Audio Rack that sound just like the reissue 1081s in the 8 channel and 2 channel AMS racks and power supply.....
Which racks have that big of a negative effect on the sound?
So I guess the crux of the biscuit is the size of the power supply? You would think for the kind of money those sell for people wouldnt skimp on the power!

I haven't heard the Mercenary Audio rack lately so i can't comment on it.

The last Merc rack i had was a 4 channel for a couple of Focusrite 115 a which was years ago.

I've heard the Vintage King,Brent Averill,Fred Hill and some others.

The AMS to me are the best sounding one's i've heard yet.

And its funny because the remote 1081's with its rack sound totally different.

[Musiclab]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Grahluk,

I am sure that Geoff T. will check in on this since i think these fell under his special designs division.

I know in the past i've used different Prism racks and they all sounded different.

I think Musiclab has a Mad Labs modded Prism rack.

They always pop up from time to time.

I have a custom rack w 2 musgrave modded mic pre w the compressors and gates and filters and 4 eq's. The mic pre's are nothing special but are decent.
The compressors are really nice. I use them on kick and snare all the time.
I tend to use the eq's on acoustic & electric guitars and overheads in the mix.
If you get this stuff send it to John Musgrave and let him do his thing to it.
You will be a happy camper

[Fletcher]

Originally posted by De chromium cob
You would think for the kind of money those sell for people wouldnt skimp on the power!

The power supply is one of the big places to skimp on one of those kinds of frames... the way we did our supplies was so they had a minimum of 4:1 headroom... in other words, the supply we did for an 8 channel frame could have done 32 modules [16 per side, with two sides so if one side of the supply went down in a session you could move a jumper and continue on with the gig]... it was deemed cost effective to use basically the same supply for the two channel frames though power regulation on the 8 channel frames was done on the actual mating board .

Grounding is HUGE in these frames... and most of them have insufficient ground busses, with the audio and power ground tied [not the correct way to do it].

Of course this was the bitch of "doing it right"... the old M-I-W frames were about double the expense of the other frames on the market so they didn't sell worth a damn which led directly to their discontinuance.