I finally understand all the complaining about 'the loudness wars'

[danbronson]

First of all, I'm in my early 20s and recording is a hobby to me. I've always been aware of the loudness wars, ever since I noticed as a kid that newer music was louder than older music (and of course at the time I thought it's because it was recorded better now).

More recently (last 5 years or so) I've read up on it and with the few plugin limiters I've used, gotten my stuff pretty damn loud and figured out how to 'compete' if I want to.

But it wasn't until I got a set of Adam A7s (not to plug a certain brand, any pro level monitor should do) that I felt I could really hear what this hard limiting is doing to music. Through less quality speakers (from ipod headphones to my old M-Audio BX8a monitors), louder sounds better. It's more intense after all. I was aware that squishing things so that the waveform looks like a brick destroys quality, but it was never really that bad to me. But now I can actually hear the negative aspects of this limiting, it's actually very obvious!

It's unfortunate that most people listen on such low quality systems, where louder sounds better. Through my monitors, I can hear the depth in the music (or the lack of depth), and I think it's really a shame when an otherwise great recording is crushed to the point where that depth no longer exists. It makes me turn off songs I otherwise enjoy and put on something a little more sonically pleasing. It's really too bad.

That said, I think it would be cool if artists would release a regular version of their album (squished to be loud) and an audiophile version (for those of us who prefer to hear depth/detail over loudness), because I think the loudness wars do have their place.

[Teo Macero]

if there is a "general aggravation" about this among professionals, I don't see why mixing engineers (worldwide, perhaps?) wouldn't be able start changing the trend.
It had to start somewhere with someone. Maybe it can stop somewhere as well. Starting here....@GS!!

[Chrisc_o]

What source material were you auditioning to bring you to notice the squashage? I mean, if it was a commercial recording, what artist/album?

[danbronson]

Originally Posted by Chrisc_o

What source material were you auditioning to bring you to notice the squashage? I mean, if it was a commercial recording, what artist/album?

I got the monitors the other day and have been listening to whatever I could find in my itunes library, which is about 75 gigs. I've given hundreds of songs a listen. Genres/release dates range all over the place. Everything from Charles Mingus to Genghis Tron. So this is just a general statement about music (or at least the stuff I have an interest in).

I will say that some of the more recent stuff is actually mastered very well. It's loud as hell but somehow it doesn't sacrifice detail as much. Other stuff is equally as loud but has been completely destroyed. I can't think of any specific examples right now.

As far as Teo's comment goes, I don't think mixing or mastering engineers can do anything about it. If the artists/labels want a loud CD, there will always be someone to produce that, and they will get more business. This is an industry after all. And as I said, the loud/less detailed stuff does sound better when you're listening on an ipod or something, which is what the vast majority of consumers are using.

So this is really just a general musing. Something I'm noticing now more than ever and posting for the sake of discussion.

I still think it'd be cool to get regular and audiophile versions of recordings. Next time I have a release, I will offer this as well (downloadable).

[Audiop]

Turn Me Up! | Bringing Dynamics Back To Music


/Peter

[Electronique]

Originally Posted by danbronson

I got the monitors the other day and have been listening to whatever I could find in my itunes library, which is about 75 gigs....

MP3s or CD Quality?

??

[danbronson]

Originally Posted by Electronique

MP3s or CD Quality?

??

MP3s, and yes, I could hear the difference between a lot of MP3s with the new monitors. In lower quality MP3s especially, there seems to be a lot of added compression as well as lost info from the top and bottom of the spectrum as well as an overall loss of detail. This quality change sounds very different though from loud mastering, so I was able to hear the difference well enough. In a 'scientific test' of course I'd be listening to CDs or 44.1k/16 bit wav files...

[danbronson]

Originally Posted by Audiop

Turn Me Up! | Bringing Dynamics Back To Music


/Peter

That is a cool idea, but I forsee problems and/or lack of interest. Loud albums sound better on ipods. Turning up the volume of a quiet album doesn't sound as 'good' because it's not as in-your-face. I say that from the perspective of a pop and hard rock fan of course.

Another thing is that if this did catch on, artists would have that label put on their CD, or one like it stating that the album is really dynamic and "good", and then master it loudly anyways because they will sell more albums that way. The only people who will notice are the people who have been noticing this problem all along anyways, and that seems to be a minority.

I still think regular and audiophile versions is the best answer to this. At least for me it is. Though I understand it would make the album more expensive to release.