Customs Duty Tax costs buying from the U.S.A.

[impact studios]

Hi

For those of you that might be interested in buying gear from the U.S.A. and having it shipped over to the U.K.
I have looked into this for sometime, and managed to contact the UK customs office on 01702 366 077

The Duty Tax code number for recording equipment is...8543899599
Duty tax amont is 3.7% of the overall cost of the parcel inc shipping costs.
Then V.A.T. at the standard rate of 17.5% is added.

EG.
I just ordered a Purple Audio MC77
Cost inc shipping £912
Duty Tax Costs 3.7% £34
Vat costs £165
Total cost £1,111
There may also be a handling charge from the post office of £15 to add to this.

But its still very cheap.

A retailer here in the UK that sells this item actually list them for £1,645 at the moment so i have saved approx £530

I just thought this info might help some of you guys....

Regards Paul

[Fletcher]

... and it's great that you saved 500+ quid... however, you're fukking Purple Audio in the process. Small firms like Purple Audio depend on the members of their global distribution network for their survival... not just a few US pimps.

Not that it may matter to you, but chances are that you heard about Purple Audio from the UK dealer/distributor as the UK dealer distributor is responsible for all advertising and promotion within the UK.

If you have a service issue, you'll get zero support [and rightfully so] from the UK dealer/distributor... you'll have to send the unit back to the United States for service/support... which very well may not happen, but you're rolling the dice that it doesn't.

Also, understand that if you keep on shopping in the US instead of with the UK dealers you'll leave no one left in the UK dealing equipment but the pimps that pimp the most pedestrian of "high volume" hardware.

I don't know [nor care] where in the US you ordered the unit... if it was from M-A we would have filled the order in a heartbeat, if you found a joint that beat our price, well that certainly ain't rocket surgery... I just hope to hell that they [or us] did their best to inform you of the potential pitfalls of gray market importation of hardware.

The MC-77 is a great unit, and I sincerely hope that you get years of joy from it... but please, whenever possible and feasible, support your local dealer as there is more of a chance of you needing their support during your career than the 500 quid you just saved.

Best to you this holiday season, peace.

[mardyk]

I agree that you should try and support local dealers if you can. Sometimes it's just too sickening though. The dealer markup is sometimes around a 100 %. At least here in Sweden. We've bought tons of stuff from the states including M-A, but we've also bought some stuff from Germany.
Our rule is US built stuff you import from the States and European built stuff from Germany.
Heck, even Swedish stuff is cheaper there. Makes no sense.
We got our UA 6176 directly from the distributor here and paid around 13000 SEK excl.VAT. At the dealers the price is around 23,000 SEk plus 25% VAT. That's a 1500$ markup at the dealer. That's just too greedy for my taste. I just want great gear. I buy it wherever I can get the best deal. Too bad. I get better support from places like this than I could ever get from a dealer. The don't know sh!t anyway.

Just my opinion.

[impact studios]

Hi

Dont get me wrong.
I have always supported my local UK retailers. And uptill now have never bought from overseas.
But i think its also fair to say that all retailers in the UK never have hi end recording gear instock these days.

When i phoned the UK retailer asking if they had an MC77 in stock not only did they say no, but they tried to convince me that what i really needed was the new SSL Channel strip.....
Probably because this is what they had in stock at the time.......

Anyway all the best to each and everyone one of you over the Xmas holidays.

Paul

[5down1up]

its all about if YOU CAN afford it or not @ fletcher .

i dont see the point why the europeans should always pay ~1k more compared to the us street prices ?

and thats just in fact of their wired import laws + taxes .

if the dealers cant compete with the market , they are doing something wrong .

and in the end , if the manufacturers wouldnt sell to those called " pimps " that problem wouldnt even exist .

so who to blame ?

[The MPCist]

As an expat American working overseas, I would like to add a few comments as well....

Lots of these 'foreign dealers' don't even STOCK the stuff. There's no way to demo stuff at all... They operate on the 'you want it, we'll order it for you but we don't know what it does'. Neither can they fix anything.

Not all of them. But alot of the ones I've come across are like that.

So if they can't give support nor fix,etc... I'd rather buy from my dealer back in the US and have him ship it over to me.

I SUPPORT the overseas dealers but they need to get their act together.

As far as advertising and promotion, some of them really need to do it. I really dislike passive dealers who've only been dealing in MIDI great until recently and landed a boutique dealership but don't even know what a XXXXX sounds like nor can they answer if it's a Class A or if it's.. whatever... I won't go thru them, period.

Just my opinion...

[Vari-Mu]

Paying a premium only makes sense if you're getting something "extra" for the additional cost...
like good service, demo opportunities, extra warranty cover etc. etc.. If you're not getting any of that then why should you be expected to pay more?

Point taken about boutiques needing their dealer network. However in Europe at the moment what's happening is that dealers are taking advantage of both the small manufacturers AND their customers through their lousy stocking and pricing policies . Many European retailers are behaving parasitically at the moment in this sector of the market IMO and that's not healthy in the long term for boutique manufacturers either.

Obviously there are honorable exceptions to this and I don't mean to devalue or overlook the efforts of the good guys. They deserve to be supported.

Best,

Vari-Mu

[Brad Lunde]

There's a lot of pressure on smaller dealers right now. The big are getting bigger. Some locaol dealers figure out they need to be different, some are sort of caught still trying to be "all the things to all people" like the old days. Its the same in the US. You can't do that anymore.

I can think of only a few reasons why the price is way too high compared to the US:
1) The dealer is not involved enough in the market to know where to set prices.
2) the local duties are very high
3) the local dealer buys such a small quanitity (one at a time?) he is paying huge freight costs to get it there
4) the local dealer made an error figuring the price (like using an old exchange rate)
5) the local dealer is buying through a distributor (or bigger dealer) elsewhere in europe who is tacking on a dealer margin as well. The dealer has no direct source to the goods.
6) the manuf doesn't really do much export and doesn't know how to properly export: the local dealer in Europe may actually be paying way MORE for it than a dealer in the USA
7) the local dealer likes to quote high and then sell at the right price to only to those who bargain.


All I can say is if you think a local dealer charges too much, I'm sure a lot of other people do too-which means their business sucks. If their business doesn't suck, they probably offer something you haven't found out about yet, don't need or don't want.

Brad

[glitchmusic]

Of course, the weak US dollar is the biggest lure for European buyers, even when you consider shipping and taxes.

[Mark]

Fletcher

The mark up on some pieces of gear in the UK is a JOKE, and goes way beyond what's needed to pay the bills and turn in a decent profit.

Forex: I'm sure the Soundelux U99 is worth every cent of the $2,500 Mercenary are asking for them. But are they worth $4,100?

You're going to say yes. I can feel it

[JTR]

Originally posted by Fletcher
... and it's great that you saved 500+ quid... however, you're fukking Purple Audio in the process. Small firms like Purple Audio depend on the members of their global distribution network for their survival... not just a few US pimps.

chances are that you heard about Purple Audio from the UK dealer/distributor as the UK dealer distributor is responsible for all advertising and promotion within the UK.

If you have a service issue, you'll get zero support [and rightfully so] from the UK dealer/distributor... you'll have to send the unit back to the United States for service/support... support your local dealer as there is more of a chance of you needing their support during your career than the 500 quid you just saved.

Best to you this holiday season, peace.

500 quid = US$965

So - questions for Fletcher

1
Do you think that we in the pro audio community rely more on advertising and promotion for this type of gear, or more on word-of-mouth, forums and magazine articles?

I'd have to say the latter: in one case, a rebate promo offered by a well known company wasn't even advertised by the distributor in another country - so no help there

2
Are these local distributor/dealers going to offer warranty service, or just ship it back to the manu?
Are they going to offer a replacement unit while the faulty one is being fixed?

That 965 bucks is halfway to buying a 2nd Purple Audio - I know where my money would be spent

If it breaks, I won't even waste time with a local dealer; I'll fix it myself, or hire a local tech who I know & trust.

The traditional system isn't working; the customer's job isn't to fix it...

[T_R_S]

Originally posted by Fletcher
... and it's great that you saved 500+ quid... however, you're fukking Purple Audio in the process.

With that difference in price I think you have it backwards.
A Digi HD 3 Accel system is $7000 USD MORE in Switzerland (Thanks Giant!) than in the US. I could go on all day with differences in Euro pricing VS US. I can see there are differences in the cost of businesss in Europe VS the US but 50%+ differences in costs are not jusifiable IMO.

[Kestral]

Wow, that is the most anti-capitalistic, un-democratic (and dare I say) communist thing I've ever heard in my life.

Note to dealers: compete or die. If you can't beat/match the price or service, then tough titties.

[axismatt]

I'm not really 'into' the politics of it all, and I can see what Fletcher's saying, BUT......now that we have a choice where to purchase from (plus have had our eyes opened up to price differences in other countries thanks to ebay etc) why should we show loyalty to dealers who seem to be blatantly trying to shaft us? You'd think the Exchange rate was 1£ to 1$ sometimes looking at UK prices!
I think more and more people will vote with their feet unless UK dealers sort it out - unless I'm missing something that level of mark-up just looks like greed, so perhaps they don't deserve our support..... ?

[Magnus]

I agree that you should try and support local dealers if you can. Sometimes it's just too sickening though. The dealer markup is sometimes around a 100 %. At least here in Sweden. We've bought tons of stuff from the states including M-A, but we've also bought some stuff from Germany.

I do the same thing as you. IMO the Behringer pimping idiots (99% of all music shops here in Sweden) have no business selling pro audio hardware, and if cutting out the middleman means that a few "Do it all" (read, sell semi pro shit) music shops loose money, then so be it.

Regarding service, I've gotten MUCH better and faster service from music shops in Germany and the UK than from my local shops. Some music shops in Germany even have Swedish talking staff (and Swedish isn't exactly a world language).

Brad Lunde is right, "You can't be all the things to all the people".

Thanks for the useful information Paul!

[ToneLux]

With the value of the dollar against the Pound, there is absolutely NO reason that any device should be cheaper here than there, because it typically ends up costing about 20-30% more to get it together overseas, which should be made up by the huge value difference between the Pound and the Euro to the USD.

The problem here is the MANUFACTURER of the unit sold is NOT staying on top of his dealer over in Europe and adjusting the price . Since the value of the dollar will be at this level for most of 2005, there is no excuse like "oh, it's not worth the adjustment, because it will just go back up". When the values change, then make an adjustment. Then, it's too bad for those that didn't buy when they should have. We are paying quite a lot over here for any goods that aren't locked to the USD. It goes back and fourth.

It is real simple, as the world has been doing it for years. You inform your customers that the price may change due to the differences in currency. Duh.

Right now, the European market should be beaming about being able to buy US goods at a normal price, but because of a few shitheads, they are forced to go around the European base and go direct.

The purchaser is not to blame, except for the fact that he hasn't thrown a brick throught his local dealers window yet. The fault lies 100% on the manufacturer for not staying on top of it and making sure his dealers aren't screwing their own market.

And if you call Fletcher, he absolutely should sell it to you. If your own dealer won't commit to you as a customer, then let someone that has happy customers do it.

As far as charging twice as much, shame on anyone that does that. You would have to add more than a "happy ending" to make me feel fuzzy about a 2X mark up.

[threm]

It's funny to hear Fletcher preach the gospel of secure buying etc,
the man who loved to live dangerously for so long and never regret it (as far as I can see).

People do what they do.
And if you know what you're doing you don't blame others for the risks you take.

I've had loads of stuff shipped from the US; radar24, bunch of heavy tube comps and pres, mikes, etc. Insured for a couple of bucks.
I would not recommend this but I've been lucky, no lost shipment.
To my defense, some of this stuff are not available here. But it's hard to be loyal towards some business that often charges 2-3 times the US price.
Let's look at an example:
On this site the E47 is listed for Nkr 47.500.
http://www.emnordic.no/front.asp?lang=NO
With todays currency (1$ = 6.11 Norwegian kroner)
http://www.norges-bank.no/stat/valut.../kurs_dn1.html
the price of the E47 is actually $7774.
The Elux 251 is 55000 Nkr = $9002.
Who wants to be loyal here? Are these prices loyal?
For fairness sake; there is another distributor here with better prices on the Soundelux line.
What did I buy for the close to $5000 I saved when buying the E47 from the US?
Or may be I never had those extra $5K.
Should I rather have saved for another year or should I have bought a Rode NTK?
Advice me please!!! :-)

[threm]

I said it's funny to hear Fletcher. On a day like this nothing is funny.
What I meant; it's interesting to hear Fletcher talk about secure buying.

But on a sad day like this I rather post something of more substance:
UN estimates, or fear, that 60000 lives are lost. Still there are places out on the islands with citys of 2-500 000 people that haven't reported yet.
Worst disaster in newer history.

Even 13 norwegians a registered dead.(we're not many).

Here is a frightening real video of the second wave coming in towards a hotel.
People thought that it would be over with the first wave. The tourist with the camera chose to stay and let the film roll.

I sat watching and listening with headphones. I can sense the tremendous powers and the chaotic fear and hear the near subsonic drone of the big wave breaking up as it hits buildings and everything else like a furious demon.
It's about a swedish and norwegian guy trying to save an elderly british couple. All tourists. The foundation of the fence that the couple are hanging unto breaks down and the woman gets carried away not to be found again. The man gets saved.

Watch the video:
http://www.dagbladet.no/download/tsunamiphuket.wmv


Two german brothers, Marus and Kevin. Nobody has seen their parents.



http://www.oxfamamerica.org/
www.ifrc.org
and many others try to help

[StuartMac]

Sorry to resurrect a thread in this manner, but I thought a lot of interesting points were made here.

I've just been browsing for info on the MC77 (thinking about getting one very soon) and I WAS going to get in touch with Mercenary to order it. Fletcher's post is very interesting indeed - the fact is he is advising people that they shouldn't necessarily buy from him, meaning he stands to make less cash as a result of his own advice. Have to admit, I'm hugely impressed by this. People can bitch all they want about his opinions and methods, but you can't question his integrity.

However....

...whilst I understand the points he makes, the reality is that we're not just talking a few quid here and there. Being able to save almost $1000 on an item that costs $1650 is pretty significant! It's not just about lowest price either - FWIW I have bought items from Mercenary that I could have bought cheaper elsewhere in the States. I chose to do so because they have been knowledgeable, informative and helpful, and on top of that I like the company ethos. Their customer service has been outstanding - that's certainly worth an extra $100 or so.

There are some excellent dealers and distributors in the UK - not many, but some. I have a handful I deal with regularly, good guys who are helpful and knowledgeable about their products. For the kind of service they offer, I'm happy to pay a little more.

But $950 more even after import duties and VAT are added? That's harder to swallow.

Anyway, I have to admit it never occurred to me that by ordeing from Mercenary (or direct) I might be harming Purple Audio, so I thought I'd try and do the right thing and check out UK prices.

Problem. The UK distributor named on the Purple Audio website doesn't have the Purple products mentioned at all on THEIR website. Anywhere, even with a search. Not good.

So, I tried a Google UK search for ANY mentions of the "Purple Audio" MC77. It got precisely FOUR hits. Of these, two are references to the Bomb Factory plug-in, and the other two are Gearslutz listings!

I probably could call a UK dealer and be told "yeah, we can get one in for you", then probably pay Andrew's direct price + 15% profit for the shop, but what's the point?

This is a real issue for UK Gearslutz right now. Like I said, I do buy most of my stuff over here (although I have to admit it drives me nuts that I can buy UK-made products cheaper from the States - even including all taxes and duties - than I can over here!!) but sometimes you just can't justify it.

[Jules]

I've discussed this issue with several UK distributors & dealers..

I have tried to suggest a PR offencive, that announces clearly that the fallen US Dollar will have a NEW and REAL effect on thier gear prices is worth gettting accross to to their client base..

I have seen no one trying this...

For example

Price WAS £xxx

But is NOW £xxx

"this is a GREAT TIME TO BUY"

etc etc...

As a UK resident, I am confused why no one is making a bigger deal out of the exchange rates here.. but then I am not a recording equipment vendor.. so what do I know?

If I were a manufacturer in the USA I would be on the edge of my seat thinking, wow! This could be a good chance for us to get our gear into overseas markets & establish brand recognition there...

Or is a trip to China to get mic's made a more lucrative venture....

[StuartMac]

Originally Posted by Jules

I've discussed this issue with several UK distributors & dealers..

I have tried to suggest a PR offencive, that announces clearly that the fallen US Dollar will have a NEW and REAL effect on thier gear prices is worth gettting accross to to their client base..

I have seen no one trying this...

For example

Price WAS £xxx

But is NOW £xxx

"this is a GREAT TIME TO BUY"

etc etc...

As a UK resident, I am confused why no one is making a bigger deal out of the exchange rates here.. but then I am not a recording equipment vendor.. so what do I know?

If I were a manufacturer in the USA I would be on the edge of my seat thinking, wow! This could be a good chance for us to get our gear into overseas markets & establish brand recognition there...

Or is a trip to China to get mic's made a more lucrative venture....

I agree 100% Jules. For years it was a straight $ to £ translation - which was a bit of a rip-off. Now it's generally not so bad, but you can STILL save a fortune buying things elsewhere, so the whole saving on the dollar being so weak is not being passed on.

Some UK-made items are certainly cheaper over here; we can get Drawmer stuff at great prices, Coles mics are way less than Royers, which are less than AEAs. Some are cheaper to buy from the States (?!?!?).

Anyway, I should be used to this - I live in Scotland, one of the most expensive places on Earth to buy Scotch Whisky, and the dearest place in the UK to buy petrol, depsite the oil fields being in Scottish waters

[Jules]

I suppose promotional trips for US manufacturers are now horrendusly expencive.... Bummer...

[7rojo7]

When I first came here to Europe I lived in France and I wanted to start myself a little mobile studio, the prices were so high that it paid for the plane trip and customs on the gear I bought back from the states with a wad leftover, I bought some gear from Fletcher too which I still have and still works, we had a few laughs on the phone and he sent me a T shirt which I still wear.
In the last few years that has changed or at least I've found better distributors that even have good customer service practices.
I made friends with a gear place guy in Paris and in 1996 he told me not to buy stuff in his shop and he let me listen to all the stuff I bought in NY. I bought a couple of mics (my N90 which I can't find anywhere, I want more) to be nice. Then when I moved to Italy it hadn't yet changed. Going to a few trade shows really exasperated me. Then in 2000 or 2001 it seemed like the whole pricing thing changed on audio gear and computers, I found a dealer in San Marino and another in Milano (everytime I go to Rome I just get sick, Rome is an hour and a half away and San Marino is 2 1/2 hours away and I would rather go to San Marino because Rome is just a waste of time)
I bought my FibreChannel system in the US because there were no dealers here none the less anyone who knew WTF it was, I bought my Brauner Mics directly from Brauner because they had no dealer in italy at the time. My dealer in San Marino regularly finds me things that are not in his knowledge for prices better than sweetwater. A lot of the time I do the research and he imports, but I took the time to make this relationship and I dropped a bunch of money there too. I have another guy that delivers from Pesaro (3hours drive) good for mic stands, music stands some mics etc...
I remember taking a trip to london in 96 to see if it was better there, at that time it was not.
In this day and age traditional publicity is a waste of money, there is almost no product that I want that I have found by publicity, I have found things and gone to see them afterwards (Switzerland to see Pyramix, which is why I bought my Prism convertors) almost wholly from research on the internet. Most distributors sites are shambles, there are very few really good ones, anyway I don't want to waste my money supporting someones lame efforts that doubles the price of my tools. Most service I know of is done directly through the manufacturer or a central regional service center to where I have to ship my broken thing anyway, anyway...
I'd rather send my broken things to people I trust not just to people who are close.
And I'd rather give those people my money too, to support their quality work.

[klaukholm]

There are exceptions. www.zima.se have lower prices than anyone in the US on Millennia.

I am thrilled to give robert my business, just wish he was the distributor for more of the items on my shopping list.
Still can't understand why I have to order DPA from the US when the factory is right in my backyard.
One thing we can do is to give dealers like zema more business.

How about a list of good distributors with good prices here in the EU.

www.zema.com for Millennia and Mytek.
He is honest, helpful and knowledgable.

www.musicians-gear.com
for Schoeps and Adam. No help here, but great prices on those items.

kjetil

[thenoodle]

....I don't know [nor care] where in the US you ordered the unit... if it was from M-A we would have filled the order in a heartbeat, if you found a joint that beat our price, well that certainly ain't rocket surgery...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wait a minute ..wait a minute.....Fletcher..did I read that correctly?

You actually took the time to get up on the soapbox to tell some guy in the UK that he's screwing the UK distributor...and you're very aware that there's a uk distributor...BUT while on the soapbox, you ALSO say that you would've filled the order asap even though you SAW the order was coming from the uk....where you KNOW there's a distributor ...and YOU know that YOU are contributing to the screwing of the uk distributor/dealer by shipping in to that territory...but you would've taken the money........did you really say that ????

Lemme get this straight...that Uk customer screwed the distributor, but if YOU make the sale and ship the product there, you're NOT ALSO screwing the distributor? Lemme guess..."cause someone else in the U.S would've take the kid's money so you had to first?"

I sincerely hope I misinterpreted your quote. If not, you're no better than the customer and you certainly have no room to speak out of both sides of your mouth like that.

[7 Hz]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

understand that if you keep on shopping in the US instead of with the UK dealers you'll leave no one left in the UK dealing equipment but the pimps that pimp the most pedestrian of "high volume" hardware.

This has already happened.

In the UK, we get bent over a barrel and shafted... but more and more people are using the net and compairing prices. More and more people are seing the crazy mark-up in the UK for the same gear... the RE-20 is a classic example.

Nowadays, I don't care if I buy stuff from Germany, USA, Japan, wherever the product is at the best price for me. The internet has turned the world into a global market.

Also, the UK is shit for A/Bing gear. No way is it easy to get, say, a Neumann and a Gefell and A/B them. Or two hi end mic pre's. the service is generaly shit unless the specialist shop is in the same city (i.e. you can drive there). Service is a joke, count your blessings if you know an electronic whizz that knows about audio (I have one here, god bless him, may his soup always be the correct temprature).

So to all the rip off motherf*** no-servics a$$holes in the uk... f*** em, let em go down the tubes, we can buy direct from the manufacturer AND save money AND enjoy the same level of service... where is the catch?

PS - a european Mercenry or the like would be much appreciated over here.