DM-24 Vs 01V96 Digital Mixers?

Sammas · 19th December 2004, 01:15 AM

It has become more and more apparent that a digital mixer would be perfect for my needs... i've had a gut full of PT|LE and its rather poor quality and even worse midi sequencing so i have now moved onto Nuendo.

One reason for a digital mixer is to prevent clogging up my DAW program with every audio operation (usually extensive Midi VSTi's like Absynth and other draining applications, Waves bundles, automation, and 2 dozen or so audio tracks all at once cause my system to slow down quite considerably). By mixing outside the box i get hands on control and few up alot of its resources for Midi and editing. It will also provide me with pre's, eq's, and compressors which would greatly exceed my budget.

I'm looking at the DM-24 and 01V96 as possible contenders.

How the preamps and onboard effects sound? do they stand out on any particular model?

I heard the original 01V's are awful in almost every way but how do the newer ones sound in comparison to a DM-24? nice preamps? conversion?

the DM-24 also has a firewire interface which is a nice feature. Does it work well for an extended mix or does it run into some trouble? I wouldn't require an Adat card for my PC with this... The 01V would but its definately not a deal breaker.

The Studio Manager software and add-on effects of the 01V look very nice indeed. Not to mention that it works like a control surface for arming tracks, mutes, transport controls, etc, etc within Nuendo. I'm not sure the DM-24 does this?

Any comments from people who have used either would be greatly appreciated!

Synth80s · 19th December 2004, 08:08 AM

I went through this decision process just over a year ago and ended up going with the DM-24 and an RME card for my PC. Neither mixer is clearly superior, but they have distinct strengths and differences. Here's my quick summary of comparative strengths:

Tascam DM-24:

- Far more comprehensive digital connectivity options: Tacam has 1 lightpipe, 3 TDIF, 2 S/PDIF and 2 AES connections built in (Yamaha has 1 lightpipe, 1 S/PDIF, no TDIF or AES)
- Much more expandable: the Tascam has 3 expansion slots, the Yamaha has only 1
- More input channels and pre-amps: Tascam has 16 mic/line inputs plus 4 assignable line inputs/aux returns (Yamaha has 12 mic/line inputs and 2 stereo line inputs
- Tascam has 2 headphone outputs, the Yamaha 1
- Firewire option
- Meter bridge option

Yamaha 01V96:

- Much better software support and integration: Yamaha's Studio Manager tools are real and look very useful. They're being integrated into several platforms (including Nuendo, I believe -- I know they're in Cubase SX 3). Tascam has delivered OS updates for the mixer, but the computer integration is not very good at all. I have hacked together MIDI control for Cubase, but it isn't good enough for me to recommend it.
- Better vendor support (IMO): Last year, Tascam killed their own support forums (how stupid is that?) so a 3rd party started hosting their own at http://www.tascamforums.com/ Yamaha has a much better history of supporting old products and platforms, IMO.
- This is one you'll need to research to comfirm, but I *believe* the Yamaha can use all of its channels even when running at 88/96KHz -- The Tascam's I/O and DSP are halved when operating at 88/96KHz. You'd better check this out if 96K matters to you.
- Built-in USB and MIDI (Tascam has MIDI only)

In terms of sound, I can't speak to the 01V96. Previous Yamaha mixers I've used (01V and 02R) did not sound good to me at all, but they were earlier models with earlier converter designs, so keep that in mind.

I am pretty pleased with the sound of the Tascam and its converters -- I've clocked mine externally and it sounds even better. Even the pres are pretty good for basic duties.

Summary:

The Tascam DM-24 offers more bang for the buck and it's a better "digital router" if you have lots of gear and need interface options (especially if you plan on using external converters). People are buying these new for as low as $1,500 and Tascam is currently offering free expansion cards on top of the low price (hurry, ends Dec. 31):
http://www.tascam.com/Fall_Free_Stuf...ffSplash.html.

The Yamaha has much better computer/DAW integration and a far more promising future as an integrated platform. Yamaha is even developing DSP plug-in options. Check out: http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/Docu...E0707Final.pdf

I am completely happy with what the Tascam does and how it sounds for what I spent (at that time, the meter bridge was thrown-in free during a sales promotion), but if I had it to do over, I would more strongly lean towards the Yamaha because of the superior DAW integration and vendor support that has come about in the last year.

-Synth80s

Sammas · 19th December 2004, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Synth80s

[/b]

Thanks Synth.

The Yamaha is a little more expensive, particularly when you add in the costs of the Adat I/O expansion and RME adat card to get 24 channels of adat but it is shaping up to be the better looking package in my situation. The Daw intergration & studio manager software is the big one and i can see it saving me a lot of time in the long run. I don't mind not having automation on the desk really either since i can do it in Nuendo anyway.

The Yamaha is also in the same boat with the 96Khz issue. It halves the channel number & effects.

I've also read numerous reviews all saying that the pre's and converters are many times better than the earlier models...

i think i'm sold on the 01V

Synth80s · 19th December 2004, 10:54 AM

I just noticed that Yamaha now makes a 16 in/16 out ADAT card. I don't think that card was available when I did my pre-purchase research, only the 8 in/8 out ADAT card. That was a deciding factor for me (I thought the Yamaha wouldln't be able to handle 24 channels of ADAT).

If you were thinking the DM-24's firewire interface would save you money over an RME or other PC ADAT interface, I wouldn't count on it. Some folks over at the Tascam forums are reporting that the latency and stability using the new firewire card is not as good as ADAT+RME or other quality PCI card. The RMEs are very mature and really hard to beat in terms of stability and value.

For the 01V96, an RME card and the Yamaha expansion card (to get up to 24 channels of ADAT I/O) you're looking at ~$3K, right? The Tascam wouldn't save you too much, maybe $500. You could save even more money by using the TDIF connectors (since the DM-24 has 24-channels of TDIF I/O built in), but that clearly seems to be a dying format. I got lucky a while back and scored an ADAT card for my DM-24 for $80, so I have 16 channels of I/O to Cubase on the cheap.

-Synth80s

jlotto · 19th December 2004, 01:17 PM

The Yamaha 01V96 comes with adat i/o built in. The converters are said to be the same ones that are used in the 02r96 and the DM2000. Countless reviews have said they sound sweet.

Yamaha now has the V2 software update where many features have been added on the mixer and DAW controller side including surround panning, new vintage plugins that include comps, eqs, rev, and tape sim.

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/...D%253D,00.html

There is a reason why it's a few hundred more than the Tascam.

Steffmo · 19th December 2004, 03:20 PM

I had a DM24 for about 2 and 1/2 years in one of my rooms.

The pres are ....well...what you would expect on a board in that price. Not awful, far from outstanding. We mostly used outboard pres. The conversion is pretty good.

As a mixer is sounds quite good. It DOES half when you go to 96.

It DOES support HUI protocol. We used it to control a MOTU rig and the whole system was quite good.

Ironically, I sold it to put in a loades PT/LE system, but that was because I needed better compatability with my main room, which went to HD.

MIKEHARRIS · 20th December 2004, 03:59 PM

BTW...the V2 upgrade for the O1V96 has arrived with NO increase in price...ant the MY16AT card will provide 16 adat i/o @ 48

Synth80s · 22nd December 2004, 05:25 AM

Hey Sammas,

If you still had any doubt, this should clear it up for you:

http://www.pinnaclesys.com/aboutus/P...53&Langue_ID=7

I'll bravely predict that Yamaha mixers will work well with Nuendo for some time to come! Case closed.

-Synth80s

SnakeCained · 22nd December 2004, 10:21 AM

Go with the Yammy.
Soundwise it's pretty good (Pre's are fine for general stuff, nice SPX fx type things, good intergration with Nuendo) and of course yesterday's annexing of Steinberg by Yammy.
I have had one sice the day they came out and the only things I would say is that you could take the main s/pdif out into Mini DAC or Benchmark (or Lavry if Santa is nice!) to really kick but. It is good that various bits can be upgraded as you go and your needs change.
I have used the Tascam and it's good too but I think the intergration is far superior on the Yammy.

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19th December 2004, 01:15 AM	#1
Sammas Gear nut Join Date: May 2004 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 140	DM-24 Vs 01V96 Digital Mixers? It has become more and more apparent that a digital mixer would be perfect for my needs... i've had a gut full of PT\|LE and its rather poor quality and even worse midi sequencing so i have now moved onto Nuendo. One reason for a digital mixer is to prevent clogging up my DAW program with every audio operation (usually extensive Midi VSTi's like Absynth and other draining applications, Waves bundles, automation, and 2 dozen or so audio tracks all at once cause my system to slow down quite considerably). By mixing outside the box i get hands on control and few up alot of its resources for Midi and editing. It will also provide me with pre's, eq's, and compressors which would greatly exceed my budget. I'm looking at the DM-24 and 01V96 as possible contenders. How the preamps and onboard effects sound? do they stand out on any particular model? I heard the original 01V's are awful in almost every way but how do the newer ones sound in comparison to a DM-24? nice preamps? conversion? the DM-24 also has a firewire interface which is a nice feature. Does it work well for an extended mix or does it run into some trouble? I wouldn't require an Adat card for my PC with this... The 01V would but its definately not a deal breaker. The Studio Manager software and add-on effects of the 01V look very nice indeed. Not to mention that it works like a control surface for arming tracks, mutes, transport controls, etc, etc within Nuendo. I'm not sure the DM-24 does this? Any comments from people who have used either would be greatly appreciated!

20th December 2004, 03:59 PM	#7
MIKEHARRIS Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: MIAMI FLA Posts: 1,268	BTW...the V2 upgrade for the O1V96 has arrived with NO increase in price...ant the MY16AT card will provide 16 adat i/o @ 48 __________________ harrisaudiosystems.com

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19th December 2004, 08:08 AM	#2
Synth80s Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Beautiful Southern California (cough, choke, honk) Posts: 751	I went through this decision process just over a year ago and ended up going with the DM-24 and an RME card for my PC. Neither mixer is clearly superior, but they have distinct strengths and differences. Here's my quick summary of comparative strengths: Tascam DM-24: - Far more comprehensive digital connectivity options: Tacam has 1 lightpipe, 3 TDIF, 2 S/PDIF and 2 AES connections built in (Yamaha has 1 lightpipe, 1 S/PDIF, no TDIF or AES) - Much more expandable: the Tascam has 3 expansion slots, the Yamaha has only 1 - More input channels and pre-amps: Tascam has 16 mic/line inputs plus 4 assignable line inputs/aux returns (Yamaha has 12 mic/line inputs and 2 stereo line inputs - Tascam has 2 headphone outputs, the Yamaha 1 - Firewire option - Meter bridge option Yamaha 01V96: - Much better software support and integration: Yamaha's Studio Manager tools are real and look very useful. They're being integrated into several platforms (including Nuendo, I believe -- I know they're in Cubase SX 3). Tascam has delivered OS updates for the mixer, but the computer integration is not very good at all. I have hacked together MIDI control for Cubase, but it isn't good enough for me to recommend it. - Better vendor support (IMO): Last year, Tascam killed their own support forums (how stupid is that?) so a 3rd party started hosting their own at http://www.tascamforums.com/ Yamaha has a much better history of supporting old products and platforms, IMO. - This is one you'll need to research to comfirm, but I believe the Yamaha can use all of its channels even when running at 88/96KHz -- The Tascam's I/O and DSP are halved when operating at 88/96KHz. You'd better check this out if 96K matters to you. - Built-in USB and MIDI (Tascam has MIDI only) In terms of sound, I can't speak to the 01V96. Previous Yamaha mixers I've used (01V and 02R) did not sound good to me at all, but they were earlier models with earlier converter designs, so keep that in mind. I am pretty pleased with the sound of the Tascam and its converters -- I've clocked mine externally and it sounds even better. Even the pres are pretty good for basic duties. Summary: The Tascam DM-24 offers more bang for the buck and it's a better "digital router" if you have lots of gear and need interface options (especially if you plan on using external converters). People are buying these new for as low as $1,500 and Tascam is currently offering free expansion cards on top of the low price (hurry, ends Dec. 31): http://www.tascam.com/Fall_Free_Stuf...ffSplash.html. The Yamaha has much better computer/DAW integration and a far more promising future as an integrated platform. Yamaha is even developing DSP plug-in options. Check out: http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/Docu...E0707Final.pdf I am completely happy with what the Tascam does and how it sounds for what I spent (at that time, the meter bridge was thrown-in free during a sales promotion), but if I had it to do over, I would more strongly lean towards the Yamaha because of the superior DAW integration and vendor support that has come about in the last year. -Synth80s

19th December 2004, 10:54 AM	#4
Synth80s Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Beautiful Southern California (cough, choke, honk) Posts: 751	I just noticed that Yamaha now makes a 16 in/16 out ADAT card. I don't think that card was available when I did my pre-purchase research, only the 8 in/8 out ADAT card. That was a deciding factor for me (I thought the Yamaha wouldln't be able to handle 24 channels of ADAT). If you were thinking the DM-24's firewire interface would save you money over an RME or other PC ADAT interface, I wouldn't count on it. Some folks over at the Tascam forums are reporting that the latency and stability using the new firewire card is not as good as ADAT+RME or other quality PCI card. The RMEs are very mature and really hard to beat in terms of stability and value. For the 01V96, an RME card and the Yamaha expansion card (to get up to 24 channels of ADAT I/O) you're looking at ~$3K, right? The Tascam wouldn't save you too much, maybe $500. You could save even more money by using the TDIF connectors (since the DM-24 has 24-channels of TDIF I/O built in), but that clearly seems to be a dying format. I got lucky a while back and scored an ADAT card for my DM-24 for $80, so I have 16 channels of I/O to Cubase on the cheap. -Synth80s

19th December 2004, 01:17 PM	#5
jlotto Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Gotham City Posts: 640	The Yamaha 01V96 comes with adat i/o built in. The converters are said to be the same ones that are used in the 02r96 and the DM2000. Countless reviews have said they sound sweet. Yamaha now has the V2 software update where many features have been added on the mixer and DAW controller side including surround panning, new vintage plugins that include comps, eqs, rev, and tape sim. http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/...D%253D,00.html There is a reason why it's a few hundred more than the Tascam.

19th December 2004, 03:20 PM	#6
Steffmo Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: West Haven, CT Posts: 921	I had a DM24 for about 2 and 1/2 years in one of my rooms. The pres are ....well...what you would expect on a board in that price. Not awful, far from outstanding. We mostly used outboard pres. The conversion is pretty good. As a mixer is sounds quite good. It DOES half when you go to 96. It DOES support HUI protocol. We used it to control a MOTU rig and the whole system was quite good. Ironically, I sold it to put in a loades PT/LE system, but that was because I needed better compatability with my main room, which went to HD.

22nd December 2004, 05:25 AM	#8
Synth80s Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Beautiful Southern California (cough, choke, honk) Posts: 751	Hey Sammas, If you still had any doubt, this should clear it up for you: http://www.pinnaclesys.com/aboutus/P...53&Langue_ID=7 I'll bravely predict that Yamaha mixers will work well with Nuendo for some time to come! Case closed. -Synth80s

22nd December 2004, 10:21 AM	#9
SnakeCained Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: LONDON Posts: 637	Go with the Yammy. Soundwise it's pretty good (Pre's are fine for general stuff, nice SPX fx type things, good intergration with Nuendo) and of course yesterday's annexing of Steinberg by Yammy. I have had one sice the day they came out and the only things I would say is that you could take the main s/pdif out into Mini DAC or Benchmark (or Lavry if Santa is nice!) to really kick but. It is good that various bits can be upgraded as you go and your needs change. I have used the Tascam and it's good too but I think the intergration is far superior on the Yammy.