Guitar Amp/Cab - what's a good all rounder?

[jho]

Our studio has no guitar stuff except tuners and stands. I've got to do something, as so many suck-a$$ sounding rigs coming thru here.

I don't play guitar and have no clue (and not necessarily in that order )...I'm sure everyone has their opinion and like anything else, there's probably no magic bullet when it comes to guitar set ups.

That said, what would be a good all around amp/cabinet setup, primarily for standard to heavy rock, something that has balls, but has some versatility in terms of tone (i.e. need decent clean tones too) that we could purchase to have in-house. Also want to get alot more into re-amping. I'm not looking for a one-trick pony.

Qualifier - I don't want a simulator/pod etc, I want something loud and proud that moves air.

[muziqfreek]

...hmm... how long is that particular piece of string?? Depends on your budget & what type of guitar sounds you're after....Boogie RoadKing does quite a few tones/amp combos/speaker configurations with the boogie family sound....

Personally i love my Hughes & Kettner Triamp 6L6 with a Sansamp Classic pedal combo .... but there's a million other combinations out there.. but i'd say look at what's been coming through the doors amp-wise and get yourself a worthy equivalent!!!

peace
Matt

[jho]

Originally posted by muziqfreek
..Depends on your budget & what type of guitar sounds you're after....

Budget - haven't defined one yet. $1000 to $3000 maybe?

Sounds - I know there is no magic bullet. Need "all arounder" that is kinda a swiss army knife. Rock, Heavy Rock, some 7-string rock, sometimes clean stuff, versatility needed.

Thanks!

[covert]

If you have that kind of money to throw at the problem, look into the Rivera line, or maybe the Engl stuff with the multiple preamps. I have found the Rivera M60 to do pretty much anything, and the Knucklehead I tried once was very impressive.

With 3k I would:

Pro Junior
Rectifier
jcm800
and some decent cab for the heads to share.


I woiuld think this would cover almost any tone desired and all would have a very familiar comfortable sound to the players.

Also, It might be easier to convince the customer to use these rigs based on the well known status of each. This based on the assumption that the players you are gettign in do not have decent rigs and that must mean they are novice in most cases.
They will be more likely to feel at ease with a "known".

I am sure the boutique stuff mentioned here would also work just trying to look at the whole picture.


And, this would instantly look like an actual collection to some.

D

[rynugz007]

bogner ecstacy (if you have the cash)

thd univalve -15watts max, but a seriously loud 15 watts. Plus you can swap preamp and power amp tubes with just about anything. It does fender clean and great marshall tones no problem and its cheap.

boogie rectifier trem-o-verb- no longer in production but they're usually all over ebay. Does the typical boogie thing along with the "vintage high gain" and "blues" channels it will do some really nice marshall tones too. Extremely versatile (i love this amp)

boogie rectifier road king- lots of routing options. Probable more tonal options in one amp than any other amp (outside of the modeling digital amps) It has a couple different sets of power amp tubes in it, which you can assign any channel to any set of power amp tubes. You can also connect a few different cabs to it at the same time and assign each channel to what ever power amp section and what ever speaker cab you want. Its definately designed for the stage more so than the studio hence the name "road king"

tophat club royale- Not super versatile, won't do heavy rock distortion but holly shit if it isn't probably the best sounding amp i've ever played. More of a blues/classic rock amp but i just had to mention it.

as far as cabs, you can't go wrong with a stock marshall 1960 cab. There havent been too many amps that i've run through my cab that didn't sound great. But i'm sure some people will say differently.

[xaos]

I'm going to agree with rynugz007. My personal experience owning Boogie, marshall, fender, Bogner, and Top Hat I would say the best all arounder I have come across is the Bogner Ectacy with the 4x12 cab. I have 2 Top Hats right now and the King Royal, being a 1 trick pony, does in fact blow people away, including myself. Definitely go and listen to Boogie because you love 'em or hate them. My experience is that they are not well made and are in the shop a lot (that statement excludes the older ones). Cab wise, do yourself a favor and check out Dr. Z. I am blown away by the tone and craftsmanship of his cabs. I just wish I had one of the Dr. Z 2x12 closed cabs...truly great sounding and extremely cheap for the craftsmanship. One last thought: I once played a session through the original bogner/hafler triple giant into a boogie power amp into a marshall 4x12. Holy S#*t did it sound amazing. You can pick up the Hafler/bogner pre for about $400-500. Just stay away from the digitech version. Yuck.

[bjornson]

I second the road king. Does a lot of things pretty well

[drew]

wow, great answers. might I suggest looking at the Randall MTS series stuff. Michael Wagner turned me on to it and it's really great. Lots of versatility.

[Telecastr]

with 3k you should get a Fender Twin Reverb, a Mesa Triple Rectifier. you've got clean cover with the Twin, it's the king of clean, and matched with the right guitar and stopmboxes, can get as heavy of a distorted sound as you could want. i'm sure not everyone will agree with that about the distortion, but i've gotten some amazingly heavy sounds out of it before with a Vox ValveTone and a Gibson SG. the Mesa is the go to amp for a lot of punk and modern rock stuff and will do the trick if the twin isn't working for a particuar scenario. if you've got any money left over, pick up a Fender Blues Jr too. you can get em cheap ($250-$300) on eBay, and they are a great little 1 x 12 amp that can be clean or break up really easily at quieter volumes - something the Twin doesn't do until about 5 or 6, which by that time is insanely loud

[Jules]

Engl Savage 120 Special Edition + Engl vintage 4 x 12 cab

Suits me.

Michael Wagener recomended it.

It's very popular, and helps us plenty.

[Madrummer]

Originally posted by rynugz007
bogner ecstacy (if you have the cash)

thd univalve -15watts max, but a seriously loud 15 watts. Plus you can swap preamp and power amp tubes with just about anything. It does fender clean and great marshall tones no problem and its cheap.

I definatley agree with rynugz the thd amps are unbelievable all tube and you can get all sorts of sounds out of them. 15 Watts is plenty for studio and even live work. It can crank out some killer sounds clean and distorted check out there website http://www.thdamps.com/

I also like the Jcm 800, its a good all around amp and it sure has history, everyone has used that amp.

Marshall cabs are the way to go in my mind. There are a lot of other cabs out there but why not spring for a marshall? tried and true these things kick ass

[alphajerk]

matamp.

[Tibbon]

Studio Needs:

-Vox AC30 (or AC30HW)
-Fender Twin (vintage is nice, but newer is practical)
-Marshall type amp (Germinos work pretty well)

[toledo3]

Well, I would try to find a blackface fender head or combo- a twin is very high volume... I would most likely get a super reverb, vibroverb, deluxe, bandmaster, etc.... on of the lower wattage ones. Even one of the old style Champs will get you the Fendery tones you want... actually, I would probably go that route. You can get old Champs for for around $200-400, and they have every bit of the tone of their bigger counterparts (Derek and the Dominoes anyone?).

Then, I would pick up an old issue JCM 800 head, and call up PRS and see if he still does the gain mod.

As far as cabs go, I would second the suggestion to check out the Dr. Z's.... the heads are pretty sweet too. That being said, my favorite cabinets are the old Musicman 212 RH's, with bass reflex port.

[Tibbon]

Oh yea, and modern music does need something 'heavier' most of the time. I'll second the Mesa Dual Recitfiers

[toledo3]

Not to flame, b/c everybody has their preferences... but I just don't get things like the Dual Rectifier, and the new Marshalls, etc...

If I want the sound of diode clipping, I would rather get it from a fuzzbox than have it built into the amp. To me, it is a useless feature....

The distortion I like comes from running tubes past their linear range, and/or overloading speakers... just about every other type of distortion has this "fizz" to it- and that could be perfect- but I don't see why it needs to be built into the amp.

For "heavier" amps, I have to say that I still really like the Soldano.... I like the eq being post gain stage- it's "tighter" sounding, for that kind of thing.

[gracejames]

Modern Metal/Rock:
I went with the Dual Rect/Standard 4X12 Cab.
I was looking at the Road King but the 2 that i tried out were problematic. The salesperson also had mentioned that they had returned units so just make sure they are solid. I love the boogie sound. Also the newer line of Line6 is very versatile.

Clean/Semi-Dirt:
Fender HotRod Deville/TwinReverb
Mesa Mark I
Vox AC30

=j

[alphajerk]

most people dislike soldanos fizzy distortion. i have recorded a couple of them cussing at them the whole time. i prefer VHT's with the KT88 tubes if you are talking that route. another thing about the NEW marshalls [the 2ks] is fu manchu has switched to those and damn do they make them sound incredible. their past few albums that they have used them on the guitars are just sick sounding.

[toledo3]

"most people dislike soldanos fizzy distortion. i have recorded a couple of them cussing at them the whole time. i prefer VHT's with the KT88 tubes if you are talking that route."

Interesting.... it has been a long time since I used the soldano, and don't remeber it being fizzy However, I am not one to ever really crank the built in "distortion" on things too much, so maybe that was a factor.

The VHT's certainly are killer.

However, IMO the new marshalls suck.

[everybody's x]

Marshall 50 watt and a 4x12 celestion cabinet

Fender Deluxe reverb





100,000,000,000 kick ass rock albums agree

[Brad McGowan]

Regarding the various Fender models for recordings....

I am a bit of a vintage Fender nut. At my studio we have a blackface Princeton, Bandmaster, Bassman (modded to be combo AA864/AB165), a silverface transitional Dual Showman, and a non-master volume silverface Twin Reverb that has been blackfaced and basically rebuilt. Of all of these amps I have gotten some of the best recorded tones from the Princeton and the Bandmaster. You can almost think of the Princeton as a lower gain, quieter version of the Deluxe Reverb (without the verb of course). It does clean sounds extremely well and is probably my favorite amp I own. The Bandmaster has an undersized output transformer so the tone compresses a bit when you push it. This seems to translate well when recording. I have NOS 7581 tubes in mine and it sounds great. For whatever reason this amp really takes well to pedals and can cover a lot of territory with the right stompbox...Rat, Fulldrive 2, Big Muff, etc.

Having said that the Twin Reverb is a beautiful sounding amp and it's tone is instantly recognizable. There's something about that shallow, open back cab. You can't beat the Twin for running a Rhodes through it. I think this amp though is a little more tempermental to different pedals than the other Fenders I have mentioned. That's been my experience at least. Right now I'm using it in my band with a Keeley modded Blues Driver and a Reverend Drivetrain 2 and it seems to work.

Oh yeah--stick WeberVST speakers in your Fenders. They will be much happier.

Brad

[Brad McGowan]

One more thing about the Twin Reverb.

I have compared the '65 reissue to my vintage '71 and the real thing slaughters it hands down. I owned a reissue for a good 6 months or so. I put some Webers and SED tubes in there and the tone improved dramatically. The cabinet is made of birch plywood so it had a nice punchy tone. It's a very useable amp, don't get me wrong. It captures the essence of a Twin Reverb. But something about it just wasn't working for me so I sought out the real thing and spent some time comparing them. Even with tired old tubes and crappy stock CTS speakers the vintage model had more depth, harmonic content, and character. I was blown away. So if you have the patience and are comfortable working on your own amps I would seek out a late 60's or early 70's silverface non-master volume. They can be had for about the same price as the reissues on the used market. With a little love you will have a tone monster of an amp.

Brad

[el cochino]

Originally posted by jho
Budget - haven't defined one yet. $1000 to $3000 maybe?

Sounds - I know there is no magic bullet. Need "all arounder" that is kinda a swiss army knife. Rock, Heavy Rock, some 7-string rock, sometimes clean stuff, versatility needed.

Thanks!

You might wanna try the Randall RM4 preamp with the RT2/50 power amp.

Randall RM4 Randall RT2/50

That gives you a taste of everything. Or you could try a Diezel VH4.

[bpatural]

Early 70sMarshall Plexi with an old 4x12 is pretty standard and always works for rock.

[toledo3]

Originally posted by Brad McGowan
One more thing about the Twin Reverb.

I have compared the '65 reissue to my vintage '71 and the real thing slaughters it hands down. I owned a reissue for a good 6 months or so. I put some Webers and SED tubes in there and the tone improved dramatically. The cabinet is made of birch plywood so it had a nice punchy tone. It's a very useable amp, don't get me wrong. It captures the essence of a Twin Reverb. But something about it just wasn't working for me so I sought out the real thing and spent some time comparing them. Even with tired old tubes and crappy stock CTS speakers the vintage model had more depth, harmonic content, and character. I was blown away. So if you have the patience and are comfortable working on your own amps I would seek out a late 60's or early 70's silverface non-master volume. They can be had for about the same price as the reissues on the used market. With a little love you will have a tone monster of an amp.

Brad

Well, I have a 65 reissue, and a 66 original. When you change the reissue over to tube rectifier, I defy you to tell the difference- when you use the same set of speakers. The rectifier makes a tremendous difference, as does putting some sylvanias in there.

That is the only Fender reissue that I think has some consistency of tone with the original. The Super Reverb is sooo far off base that Fender should get a class action lawsuit against it. I was really looking forward to it coming out so that I could use a reissue instead of my original for gigging, but it sounds NOTHING like the original. I didn't even want to contemplate how extensive the mods would need to be to get it to sound the same.

I guess your 71 is re-wired to blackface specs? Stock, the 71 would sound a tad bit treblier at similar settings, and a little bit grittier, easier to overdrive. I wouldn't say that it is inferior to the Blackface spec, as many feel, just that it is different.

I have to say, I absolutely despise it when people change over the circuits on these amps, because each one really had their "thing", and I don't think the silverfaces were necessarily worse. If you want a blackface get a blackface.... nothing personal though!

I second the on original HiWatts... if you have ever seen the inside circuit work, it is very impressive, like a work of art.

[Scriabin]

Marshall Plexi 50 watt w/ 4x12 cabinet w/ greenback speakers. This will get you everything from jangly fender clean (it was created as a ripoff of the Fender bassman in the 60s), to AC/DC crunch, all the way to heavy metal w/ the right combo of pedals... The plexi is incredibly versatile.

[max cooper]

The Randall thing with the interchangeable modules seems like the only way to get there with a single purchase.

Probably a good idea to get one good classic amp at a time. If you're already a Gearslut then it won't take too much time to become an amp slut.

Plus instead of trying to cover all the bases, a couple of great flavors are a better bet than many so-so ones.

Make sure to have fun with the quest.

[brendondp]

If it really is one-amp-plug-and-play versatility you want then I second the Bogner Ecstasy (XTC). They can really move a lot of air, have three very usable channels (clean, Plexi, lead), and you can usually find one for just under your 3K ceiling. If a guitarist walked into your studio and wanted more gain than the Ecstacy could deliver then you must be recording some pretty f***in heavy shit... (which in that case I'd recommend the Uberschall).
http://www.bogneramplification.com

The THD is a really versatile amp too, and sounds great with the options of different input and output valves, but 15W for the Univalve and 30W for the Bivalve may not be enough for you in some situations, though will probably be plenty for most.
http://www.thdelectronics.com

I love Hiwatts too, and they're perfect for allowing "colourization" through effects if that's your bag, but personally I'd avoid an oldie and get a Reeves instead. Same point to point, hand wired construction, and very faithfully "voiced" to the originals but with modern day build quality. I've seen some older Hiwatts in shocking condition through neglect and wear and tear, so thats really my only reason for steering clear of an original.
http://www.reevesamps.com

All of the above could easily become studio mainstays, have great tone, and are within your budget, but if I had to pick one that I felt best reflected my understanding of what you're going for, I'd get the Bogner. The website looks like it's down at the moment, but you could have a look here for user reviews: http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data/

Cheers,

bdp