acoustic guitar recording

[songman]

This is the setup: Ovation Custom Elite (mid depth) with Martin strings gauge 11-52, Trak2 preamp going into PT MIX. I have a TLM103 and Brauner Valvet. OK to use those? If not, then which stereo pair of mics would you get: Josephson 42 maybe?

Thanks for any suggestions.

Bob.

[brownmouse]

Originally posted by Bob Lowen
This is the setup: Ovation Custom Elite (mid depth) with Martin strings gauge 11-52, Trak2 preamp going into PT MIX. I have a TLM103 and Brauner Valvet. OK to use those? If not, then which stereo pair of mics would you get: Josephson 42 maybe?

Thanks for any suggestions.

Bob.

first of all, since you have those mics at your disposal i would suggest you try them out for yourself. secondly, does the guitar sound good by itself (i personally am not an ovation fan)? if not, i would suggest changing the source. if it sounds great as is... then just try as many mics as you can (or what you have) and experiment with placement. (on a side note: i would suggest a heavier gauge string set as well).
as far as favorite acoustic guitar mics go... a few of my favorites (depending on my mood, etc..) in no particular order are..
josephson e22s
josephson c42
soundelux u-195
aea r-84
soundelux e-47
t.h.e. kp-6m
cad m-9
and a few others i'm sure i'm forgetting at the moment.
good luck,
joshua

[Riad]

I use the TLM-103 over the player's head. And use a 451 stereo pair x-y around the 12th fret.

I agree about the Ovations, they just sound like ass to me. I have $500 Martin that sounds better than a $2000 ovation... but that's me, it's all what sound you're going for.

YMMV.

[TER]

Totally depends on the style you're playing and how it needs to fit in the track. I've long been a fan of Taylor guitars for non-strummed parts, and whatever works for strummed parts...

I like 4051a xy at 12th fret plus a body/bridge mic (usually an Elation 201) for fingerstyle tracks. Hard strumming can be pretty much any mic...really depends on the track it's going into. Beyer 101 (dynamic omni) sounds really classic on a Gibson/woody sounding guitar.

The new Shure KSM141 mics are better than they should be...easily beat my KM184s on most guitars. (Strangely, I only use the KM184s on piano now) The Shures are more neutral/natural than the 4051s which are zingy in a good way.

I can't really imagine not having the 4051s available to me...I use them constantly. Pretty wide cardioid, not great live, but terrific on many things in the studio.

Of course, it's okay to use any mic you have so long as it SOUNDS okay. None of us can tell you which mic is going to sound good on your guitar...only what's worked for us on the guitars that have shown up at our places.

Knowing what sound you're looking for is far more valuable than owning more microphones.

-tom

[kudzu]

Yeh... Ovations suck, big time....change the gtr to a Taylor and stick a SM81 on it.

[toledo3]

You know, I have always hated Ovations, especially since I play guitar....

But I was recording this country singer-songwriter, who insisted on using his Ovation on this finger picked intro on a song. I figure it is always quicker to try something out than to debate about it, so I miked it up with an SM7... then he wanted to go direct as well! We used a blend of the two.

I have to say, that it was not my cup of tea, but it sounded so typical of what is going on in modern country right now, and was probably the right thing for the job. Really upfront and kind of plasticy-how's that for an endorsement?

[Faderjockey]

Yeah, It's better if the gtr has some wood on it. Borrow a Collings or Olsen...They work well. Sound like guitars.

[doorknocker]

Speaking of Ovations, for a long time I pretty much agreed about them sounding and LOOKING horrible but then I found out that one of my all-time favourite records, John Mc Laughlin's 'My Goal's Beyond' was recorded with an Ovation....oops! It's the player and nothing but the player, so I guess songman's setup should work fine.
Personally, I'll mostly either stick to one mic (find the sweet spot while experimenting with the distance and pointing the mic roughly in the direction of the 12th fret.) Or I'll add a room mic so why not try the Brauner as close-up mic and put the TLM 103 in the room. I think the room is the second most important element after the player. You simply can't get a decent acoustic sound in a bad sounding room.
Something like a Pultec plug-in might work great in the mix. With a lot of guitars, it's all about taming the low mids. I often cut quite a bit in the 100-200k range.

Andi

www.doorknocker.ch

[Faderjockey]

doorknocker, Your first impression was right. THEY SUCK!

Yes it's better when the player is very good....But fact is fact.....Plastic back doesn't sound as good as wood.

it's like having a plastic piano no matter who plays it or how well it's miced. It will still sound like plastic.

[Knastratt]

The Brauner Valvet for acguit is a no brainer. 2-3" out and somewhere where the body meets the neck should be easy to find the balance between string and body.

Use the tlm to mic the body slightly under the bridge. A little panning and you're there.

[Beech]

"I use the TLM-103 over the player's head." Riad, could you explain exactly how you go about this. Sounds like an interesting concept.

As far as Ovations are concerned, there's probably not enough true guitar tone from them but I have found that by putting the high ocatave strings from a twelve string set and turning into a Nashville high string guitar, it works very well. Particularly good for tracking strumming tracks which were on a "normal" guitar tuning.

[TER]

Almost any guitar will sound good hi-strung, because the majority of the high string sound is the strings themsleves. It's a great way to make a cheap guitar very useful. I have a cheap guitar here that's kept hi-strung...sounds great, does strumming and open chord stuff really well...and gets out of the way of pretty much everything in the mix. Doesn't do well as a primary rhythm guitar, though.

-tom

[Riad]

Originally posted by Beech
"I use the TLM-103 over the player's head." Riad, could you explain exactly how you go about this. Sounds like an interesting concept.

As far as Ovations are concerned, there's probably not enough true guitar tone from them but I have found that by putting the high ocatave strings from a twelve string set and turning into a Nashville high string guitar, it works very well. Particularly good for tracking strumming tracks which were on a "normal" guitar tuning.

I've tried this two ways, first would be in front of the player but about 3' over them pretty much center of the player with the TLM pointed down on a 45 degree angle toward the guitar.

The second would be to put the mic behind the player, over the right shoulder (assuming a right handed guitar player) many times guitar players are used to hearing the guitar from that position so it's tends to sound natural and picks up the back of the body - just check for any phase issues.

Rob-

[songman]

I'd like to thank each and everyone of you for all the helpful advice. It seems clear to me now that if I have to invest in something it will not be in the mics but rather maybe in another acoustic guitar. Well that might not be a bad idea. :-)

Cheers, Bob.