Cheap snare compressor?

[Coldsnow]

Got the RNC's. Anything else in the under 300 range that will work on a snare drum?

[s2n]

dbx 160x or xt

[mdbeh]

The Joemeek can be cool. (Over $300, but still on the cheap side of things.)

[freshrobot]

I second the DBX 160X. Can be good for kick too I find

[Screws]

JoeMeek stereo comp works nice, but it's not a world of difference from the RNC. If you want the ultimate snare and kick tool, save up for the SPL Transient Designer 2 channel. Runs about $500 and absolutely kills on kick and snare.

See here

http://www.soundperformancelab.com/T.../in_short.html

[Tim L]

The Expressor can be pretty cool, 160x also, but more often than not it's the RNC for me.

[e-cue]

This is a no brainer : DBX 160XT

[Jay Kahrs]

Well, besides the obvious dbx 160X or XT there's the Symetrix 501 and Aphex Expressor. I used an Ashly SC-50 (or something 50) once on a live gig and thought it was pretty cool. Sometimes you can find other "off" stuff like Orban's for chump change. Oh, and don't forget the Valley Dynamite. Faster then Superman rescuing Lois Lane from Lex Luther.

[Saucyjack]

I just got an Ashly Cl 52 fror about $100,I think it's a Stereo version of the Sc 50.Haven't played around with it much but definitely a different flavor than the RNC

[sonic dogg]

apex expressor....dbx 903(160xt in a rac)...symetrix 501..525....or simply nothing at all.....i use an audix d4 in on the head and an atm25 outin the front for fat...maybe a touch of compression on the mixdown works great....also a proper tuning of the kik gives great results and only costs your time

[jeronimo]

What about the Symetrix 565E?

[Wiggy Neve Slut]

DBX 160 X... seriously underated compressor... also great for kiks, Bass during tracking to stop sudden peaks and electric GTRS

PEACE
Wiggy

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally posted by jeronimo
What about the Symetrix 565E?

Cool. Usable but nothing special. Kinda like the 160X but the 160X can be borderline cool and special while the Symetrix stuff just does it's job.

[sonic dogg]

i kinda like stuff that just does its job...then the 'borderline cool' stuff sounds even better when ya stick it in....

[7rojo7]

Print at +9, make sure you hit tape with all the peak lights lit on the Vu and see if only one is lit on repro (A827) if you have one it doesn't cost a dime

[dynamike]

how often does everyone 'not' compress kicks and snares on the way in to a DAW, and only compress and eq in the box??

if you do, whats your favorite compressors/eq's/ tricks for getting good drum sounds.

and i don't want to turn this into what mics to use and where to place them, cuz thats not what i'm interested in hearing about.

since,
mike


"this is Joe, nice to Meek you."

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally posted by 7rojo7
Print at +9, make sure you hit tape with all the peak lights lit on the Vu and see if only one is lit on repro (A827) if you have one it doesn't cost a dime

That may or may not work depending on speed and tape formulation. DON'T try that with 456. Ugh. I had one client come to me with a reel of 456 2" that had been recorded at SAE (the school) in NYC by a student. Well, first things first the tape was stored heads out and there were no tones so I just threw it up on the Jeep to see what was what. Turns out that it had been tracked at +9/185 running 15ips. Mush. Distorted Mush. Now, I'll run GP9, 499 and SM900 at +9/185 without a problem. Though the breaking point on 900 can be a little rougher then GP9, I just started a new project where I'm running it at +6/185.

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally posted by dynamike
how often does everyone 'not' compress kicks and snares on the way in to a DAW, and only compress and eq in the box??

if you do, whats your favorite compressors/eq's/ tricks for getting good drum sounds.

and i don't want to turn this into what mics to use and where to place them, cuz thats not what i'm interested in hearing about.

It really depends on the drummer and style of music. If the drummer is solid and even I might hit kick and snare a little on the way to tape, maybe 2:1 or 3:1 and if I'm going to digital it's a bit harder. If the drummer is all over the place anything goes, maybe 8:1 or 10:1. The higher the ratio the less gain reduction I use. Sometimes compression can be used as an effect, if that's the case anything goes but I usually don't print that to tape, room mics or purposely "whacked" sounds are the exception to that rule. I'm not afraid to apply some EQ and stuff while tracking. I like to make it sound like, or close to like the finished product right from the start.

Compressors I like? All the standard stuff you've heard about a million times. The 1176, dbx 160VU's, Distressors, etc. There are other things I like a lot too, the Dakings come to mind, Trakkers, weirder old stuff like Orbans, the 9098CL. My EQ's tend to be the drum mics and positions. After that I'll use the EQ on the Trident, the Dakings and Speck ASC's. I also like the Orban 622B on stuff that needs control over the low end, kick's, floor tom, bass etc. You can't go too wrong with API, Neve, Sphere, or Calrec stuff either.

[e-cue]

Originally posted by 7rojo7
Print at +9, make sure you hit tape with all the peak lights lit on the Vu and see if only one is lit on repro (A827) if you have one it doesn't cost a dime

...and marvel at the bleed through

[recorderman]

innovonics

[7rojo7]

Are we talkin cross talk or print through? what is bleed through, are you british?
either way on the snare track it's revealed as character.
I thought we were talkin effects, cheap.
Works for distorted bass too, as long as you wipe the surrounding tracks and reprint to a faraway island.
I can't believe that some of you guys don't get on with old tape tricks, geez.
+9 at 15 Dolby SR is one of the best formats that exist. You don't have to push every track but some really benefit from it.
Of course if you don't have the machine that'll do it, that will limit you too.

[Jay Kahrs]

At 15ips I find that I have more problems with over saturation then noise, even without SR. Some people say that the electronics can't handle (at least on a JH-24) the output of +9/185 but overall I don't hear that or at least it doesn't bug me as much as oversaturation.

Speaking of tape tricks, what's the one for adding an extra dB at 10khz when doing the basic record alignment? No matter how I do the math I can't get it to work out right, I just can't wrap my head around it for some reason.
madd

[e-cue]

Originally posted by 7rojo7
Are we talkin cross talk or print through? what is bleed through, are you british??

Here you go. http://home.capecod.net/~pbaum/magtape.htm Click "bleed through" for a thorough definition. Crosstalk and print through should both be considered in this situation, at least for a 1st timer. I'm not British. I'm based in L.A. in the states (see location under my name).

either way on the snare track it's revealed as character.

Yeap. Cool effect. Common for distorted guitar.

I thought we were talkin effects, cheap.

I would consider the $300 - $200 range "cheap" for a compressor. While what you are talking about doing IS a lot cheaper than say, a FATSO unit (just under $2,500), the tape costs over time will be much, much greater than a $200 DBX160xt or a $300 RNC.

Works for distorted bass too, as long as you wipe the surrounding tracks and reprint to a faraway island.
I can't believe that some of you guys don't get on with old tape tricks, geez.

I do 'get on with old tape tricks'. But it's not feasible on every project, not just because of cost factors, but because of the styles of music. I believe the DBX unit sounds great no matter what style of music you are working on. I agree about "faraway island"... Sucks going down a tape generation sometimes just to reprint it through. I'd hate for that kid that posted the SSL quesiton on the DUC site ( http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...&threadid=2612 )to read this and try doing it on the channel next to the lead vocal track (like the crosstalk you mentioned eariler). "HOHOHOHOHO", as mixerman might say.

+9 at 15 Dolby SR is one of the best formats that exist.

Yep. Jimmy Jam and Terri Louis still use this format with great results and can fit more songs on each reel. I usually prefer 30ips for the 'tape compression', but I've been known to do 7.5 ips on indie rock or more artsey projects. Even better if you are rockin 16 track 2 inch tape. But then again, I almost always slap a compressor on these channels after hitting the tape hard.

You don't have to push every track but some really benefit from it.
Of course if you don't have the machine that'll do it, that will limit you too.

Correct. I would hardly consider a day's rental of an analog machine and tape costs 'cheap' in this context.

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally posted by e-cue
"HOHOHOHOHO", as mixerman might say.
[/b]

Nah, that's not Mixerman. That's my buddy Slipperman's quote.

Nuk Nuk!

[e-cue]

Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
Nah, that's not Mixerman. That's my buddy Slipperman's quote.

Nuk Nuk!

I stand corrected. I've been thinking of changing my name to "E-cueman". What'd ya think?

[7rojo7]

That's a great site, thanks. Print Through.
Maybe you're thinking about "Over Bias", it's thought that it reduces tape noise by using more bias signal, it's compesated for in the record eq, "Peak Bias" works well also.
If you already have an analog machine it's still cheap, of course all the other things mentioned are surely of good advice. Just like any other effect you must experiment and document to develop a new technique or perfect an old one. Thanks for the responses.

[e-cue]

Originally posted by 7rojo7
That's a great site, thanks. Print Through.
Maybe you're thinking about "Over Bias", it's thought that it reduces tape noise by using more bias signal, it's compesated for in the record eq, "Peak Bias" works well also.
If you already have an analog machine it's still cheap, of course all the other things mentioned are surely of good advice. Just like any other effect you must experiment and document to develop a new technique or perfect an old one. Thanks for the responses.

Good points! When I brought up the "bleed" issue, casette 4 tracks is what came to mind even though you mentioned a 827. I'm ashamed to admit I haven't align an 827 in 1 year, 2 months, and 30 days. Even worse is that when I did, the studio didn't have a tweeker tool for the azmuth!!! I usually check my 1/2 alignment, but rarely align that much anymore also. Cross talk and bleed are bigger issues if you are doing any type of music that requires "drops" (mutes), such as Hip Hop, Pop, R&B, Regae, Radio promo ads, jingles, and Dance music.

What outboard based compression do you think most closely suit the "tape style compression" technique under $600?
RNC would get my vote. Perhaps the Summit Audio TLA 50 is second place for a little over 3 times the cost.

[7rojo7]

Maybe an Audio Research? Without all the distortion. It seems fast enough with predictable headroom. I forget if this is the exact name but I've used them a bunch, (damn, Alzheimers is setting in) they're Classic. I don't use this type of stuff much anymore.
I've found that I only have to line up playback tones and do a record allignment, azimuth would bother me a lot for stereo but not much for multitrack. Headwrap and reel tension are more important. One neva fines da time, do one? Now I line everything up by sight, I believe that it sounds better, at least it looks better.
I've just found a Studer A80 16 track for 3000 euro, needs work. If you can guess by my address there aren't many Studer techs close. As much as I'd like to have it, I'll have to pass it up. But maybe not, if I can find an 8 track headstack or maybe a 1" 2-Track we could be in the buying mode. There are some nice mods for Studer electronics.
Maybe he can play with a look ahead type of plug-in to get what he really wants? They're cheap, buy one and you have thousands of them.
300$/1000 =?

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally posted by e-cue
Good points! When I brought up the "bleed" issue, casette 4 tracks is what came to mind even though you mentioned a 827. I'm ashamed to admit I haven't align an 827 in 1 year, 2 months, and 30 days. Even worse is that when I did, the studio didn't have a tweeker tool for the azmuth!!!

Azimuth? The azimuth in this room is great, but this one guy with emphysema had a rough time...

Nuk Nuk!
rollz rollz

How much work does that A80 need? If your slightly tech savy you might be able to do most of it yourself. Studer still supports all their decks and the people on the Studer list can probably help with most problems. I still need to ask them about the bias "problem" on my A80. Which version of the A80 2" is for sale? Some are better then others and they all punch insanely slow. You hit record and all these little guys run out and throw the big Jules Verne style levels to engage record... It's pretty funny. But, they do sound great, I love my half-track. If I sold the studio tomorrow and went freelance again I'd sell the desk and the JH-24 but keep the Studer.

[7rojo7]

It's a mess, I could probably do it, or coax a friend to a paid vacation but I don't have the amount of time it involves to prove what a real slut I am. It's been there for about 2 years, when I make up my mind to get it, destiny gets in the way and my opportunity's passed.
I hate soldering and I hate punching, although I do both quite well.
There's a local rock band, the singer sings in french because he's french. They're old but really entertaining, I thought that even 8 tracks would be enough (personality goes a long way) but the 16 tk Studer is always looming in my Halcyon dreams. Good band no money no record, spec deals are a hassle, no Studer. Wher am I gonna buy 2"?
I'm about to get this babe, if I can find a 1" 2trk headstack for it. It'll cost me about 4 channels of DPA mics. with Earthworks pres.
Rationalization goes a long way too. Just to think of my composite snare drum track bending the base of the VU needle makes me blush. (I had to bring it back, no?) Hey, where am I? and who are you? Where's my wallet?