doubling mono rap vocals in mix

[electric]

i need some suggestions to help blend rap lyric doubled tracks to a mix.i can get close to the sound i want but not quite. something is missing.

i am going for the subtle mono up-the-middle style doubling(a la talib kweli.not big stereo tupac-style doubles) . the trick to making them sound right seems to be creating enough seperation between the two takes and blending them at the right volumes(probably along with eq/compression). otherwise you get an annoying "flangey" sound that just is not what I want.

here is how i have been experimenting with the doubled track (which is a seperate take btw)

1)eq-ing(mostly lp/hp filters and maybe a little boost in the mids )
2)compressing the doubled track
3)playing with the volume

some ideas for improvement i have are:

1) using an IBP. i have one of my own. would flying the track out and playing with the phase help seperate the two takes a bit more? do people use this tool for vocals?
2) re-recording the doubled tracks with a slightly different delivery. timing would be the same . i think the "phasey" problem may be because the mc's deliveries in the 2 takes are too similiar.

i am trying trying to get the sound i want at my little home studio with the idea i can quickly get same effect or better at a real studio here down the line. (mixing on a console w/ a pro engr) i want to pretty much know how to get the sound i want.

any suggestions appreciated.

electric

[chadly]

You can try the IBP, but I think the ticket could be using a very slight delay, say in the 30-80ms (you'll have to play with it to really get it to sound right)

[CrazyBeast]

I like using different mics for the dbl than the lead, ie: condensor for the lead and a dynamic for the double track or vice versa. I start with that and then eq/comp/fx if necessary.

[narco]

this is how its done..

two takes as similar as possible.

if they are not that similar use vocAlign (or whatever its called ) to align them better (workds like magic!)

compress the louder one more than the quiter one, so the peaks of the quiter one come over the louder one

well it works for me anyway..

narco

[jho]

Here are two suggestions that come to the top of my mind based on the other good suggestions already made and to add to that list:

Slighly pan the double track so it sounds like he's next to him on 'stage' and use a slight bit of short verb to make it sound like he's behind the lead rhymer. Or actually record the backup guy standing a foot or two further away from the mic...seriously.

You can also bring out the lead a little more by using a subtle effect so the lead shimmers more than the backup. Sometimes works the other way around.

Sometimes doesn't work at all

[gpcramseysoral]

I've got the best results using a slight delay (as suggusted earlier) in conjunction with chorus or plate reverb on the overdubs. If you have a yahmaha spx that would be the ideal choice. Also saw on guy use a waves L-1 on the lead and digirack delay on the other. The key to this was using some (mild in your case) panning on the delay. Worst comes to worst I think re-recording with a more distant micing (also as suggusted previously) wouldn't be a bad idea.

Let us know what you come up with!!

[electric]

funny you guys mentioned a plate verb. after i got back from work i tried running a plate verb mixed on the double w/ 10 ms delay. seemed to be closer to what i am looking for.

i got the IBP ready to go but seemed to find the solution without it.

pretty confident i got a solution. the studio i am mixing at has a real 140 plate verb too!

electric