Engineers! To add a sub or not to add a sub?

[altoidboy]

As a full-time producer and engineer of much of my own stuff, I've been seriously thinking about getting into surround. I've got some projects coming up next year that I might be able to go into surround for, so I'm debating adding the extra speakers to my current Mackie 824 setup.

After looking at the prices, I'm not sure I can afford it all in one go, but I could afford the Mackie sub, to add to my current 824's.

How big of a difference is the Mackie sub going to make? Is it a wise investment?

I've always enjoyed my 824's. I know them well and can mix to them reliably. That said, a recent project I took to a mastering engineer gave me all kinds of bass surprises (not good surprises) when played raw over the mastering engineer's system. So that's in the back of my mind too.

So...how much of an improvement in my mixes do you think a sub would make -- i.e. going from two 824's to the two 824's plus the Mackie sub?

(And maybe sometime in 2005 adding three more 824's or 624's or 626's to complete the surround setup?)

[maks]

this ofcourse depends on your room+treatment, but i always thought the 824's were ample for bass... you should list your room dimensions in your description, im sure youll get more responses..

[HudHudson]

Another vote here to dispense with the sub. I unloaded a pair of Mackies because I thought the low end way too hyped.

[ZEUSS]

Get it.I am using one with the 824's and it makes a huge difference to me. They will sound like a different set of moniters once the sub takes over 80 and below. Its amazing how much chud is going on in the sub frequencies that you will be able to hear. Play back some of your old mixes and you will see what I mean. Even hearing vocal plosives that were once invisible show up.Yeah I know the 824's arent perfect but I am used to them and dont care what anyone thinks.

[NIGHT'SCHILD]

IMHO 5.1 surround is the future of all music. Those who have a head start will be very lucky. I am trying my hardest to step into the realm, but like you said it isn't cheap. I have four Event Tr8's and a Event 2020/12 sub. Having a sub does make a difference in your mixing. First it seems you need to resolve some room issues I did too. Lots of Auralex bass traps and diffusers. The most important thing is to know the in&outs of the speakers you are using.

Final Thought:
Yes get the sub you need it for your surround ventures, and it will help your mixing.

[seriousfun]

Can your Mackies play the full frequency and dynamic range of every sound you can record or synthesize, and can they play all of the sounds that you can deliver to the consumer? If not, you need to upgrade your monitor system to full-range.

There are two perfectly good ways to do this. One is to buy actual full-range speakers; these will take some effort to position properly, and are typically large and expensive. The other way is to extend the bass response of your mains by properly integrating a subwoofer; this takes a proper crossover, and some specialized work (to do properly).

In your case, since you are asking, I say "yes". With a full-range system, you will be able to monitor everything your mics can capture, and you will be able to monitor everything the consumers might be able to play - go to any consumer audio store, and try to buy a speaker system without a subwoofer (it's getting hard to do this). Would the television industry encourage editors to use video monitors that didn't play the color blue? The days of guessing about your low end should be over by now.

[jlotto]

Originally posted by seriousfun
The days of guessing about your low end should be over by now.

How true.

I still do love may 824's w/ mackie sub- they translate really well.

Just installed in room A: S3A's w/ sub. Still running back to room B for mixes for now

[Camilo Orozco]

Originally posted by jlotto
Still running back to room B for mixes for now

I have a pair of Mackies at my main room, but I always check the mix in my B room that has a pair of Genelecs and a Genelec Sub.

[Fletcher]

In my world that would be out of the pan and into the fire... but I'm so addicted to my S3-A's that I really shouldn't comment.

[Crash]

I am in the same boat with the add sub quandry. I have been toying with the idea for a year or so and just can't figure out if it will help or hinder me. My business partner is all for it but I am hesitant. I have my room pretty well learned as I do my 824s and I am afraid the learning curve will be re-introduced if I throw a sub into the mix. For now, I have been changing some of the settings on the HR824s but still I wonder...

Crash

[maks]

i think, in either case it wont hurt to get it, as it will balance things out a little more, and bring you closer to 5.1...If the room is small, maybe it isnt worthwhile cause the 824's do pump lots of lowend as is... Ive personally noticed that when im too hesitant on whether or not i should add something, ill wait a few days maybe weeks to see if this calling is really necessary... As the Germans used to say if your angry and want revenge, hold out one/two days...if you still feel like that after, then its for real and do what you gotta do...or something like that

[ZEUSS]

If you get the sub and cross everything over correctly the 824's will not be as boomy. The sub will take care of it. Try it out. They WILL sound different.