Learning never STOPS.

[Mr.HOLMES]

So today I had a interesting conversation with an very experienced Engineer 25+ years.
He told me that he sees parallel compression on Digital systems as very critical because of phase issues.

I never had the feeling to have trouble with it but may be there are some more reasons which make it useless on digital systems???

[RainbowStorm]

Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES

So today I had a interesting conversation with an very experienced Engineer 25+ years.
He told me that he sees parallel compression on Digital systems as very critical because of phase issues.

I never had the feeling to have trouble with it but may be there are some more reasons which make it useless on digital systems???

Does he mean you should not use parallel compression due to phase issues or does he mean parallel compression is a way of avoiding phase issues and therefore should be practised?

[Mr.HOLMES]

Does he mean you should not use parallel compression due to phase issues

correct Mr.

[RainbowStorm]

Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES

correct Mr.

That's what I guessed but needed to clearify it. This issue has been debated for a while. The problem seems to be that the delay compensation built into DAWs are not that accurate, it is typically a few samples off and the accuracy also varies based on host/architecture/plug-in manufacturer. So when you run something processed in parallel you get phase issues. He is probably right...

Here is another thread regarding this topic:
Parallel Compression Delay timing

I usually don't use parallel effect processing because I want to keep it as simple, clean and natural as possible. There are so many better ways of creating fatness than using phase techniques without knowing it. Another option is actually to record an overdubbed track and process that instead.

[andychamp]

With today's processor speeds, RAM and disk sizes, it's no big deal to just print your effected (= compressed) track, time-allign it to the original and mix it "to taste".
I've tried it, and didn't find that it improved on Cubase4's built-in latency compensation. But make sure you ping for delay while the track's running. The values are usually smaller when stopped.

[Mr.HOLMES]

Originally Posted by andychamp

With today's processor speeds, RAM and disk sizes, it's no big deal to just print your effected (= compressed) track, time-allign it to the original and mix it "to taste".
I've tried it, and didn't find that it improved on Cubase4's built-in latency compensation. But make sure you ping for delay while the track's running. The values are usually smaller when stopped.

This would be the only solution or as written before not to use it.
But thanks I always thoght that delay compensation is working 100% correct.... so learning never stops.

This is the most fun to have audio issue in his job....learning...

[RainbowStorm]

Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES

This would be the only solution or as written before not to use it.
But thanks I always thoght that delay compensation is working 100% correct.... so learning never stops.

This is the most fun to have audio issue in his job....learning...

Yeah... In my opinion this should be a working feature built into the host, to manually have to realign tracks is just crazy. With a lot of stuff like this our work would be pretty weird...

[Mr.HOLMES]

Originally Posted by RainbowStorm

Yeah... In my opinion this should be a working feature built into the host, to manually have to realign tracks is just crazy. With a lot of stuff like this our work would be pretty weird...

Another solution is to use a plug in compressor with build in mix 0-100% knob such as the new logic compressor or stuff by PSP whci I ahve seen yesterday.

[UnDeFiNeD]

Or what I often do when it phases, just put the same plug on the clean bus, but either put it in soft bypass (depends on DAW, just so the plugin still delays) or set the compressor up at unity (eg. no compression). That way both busses have the same amount of latency. To check 100% if there isn't a delay ofset, null it by reversing polarity.

Pzz

[nukmusic]

Originally Posted by UnDeFiNeD

Or what I often do when it phases, just put the same plug on the clean bus, but either put it in soft bypass (depends on DAW, just so the plugin still delays) or set the compressor up at unity (eg. no compression). That way both busses have the same amount of latency. To check 100% if there isn't a delay ofset, null it by reversing polarity.

Pzz

humm.. i will try that out.

[Mr.HOLMES]

While I was shopping it came to my mind why do we not care of this problem with delays and reverb?

Is it because it is delayd anyway but we also use other effects which we treat parallel.

[baikonour]

Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES

Another solution is to use a plug in compressor with build in mix 0-100% knob such as the new logic compressor or stuff by PSP whci I ahve seen yesterday.

Or both the UA Precision Buss and multiband compressors.

That said I've done it the old way in cubase and could hear any phasing. But maybe some other DAWs have some lacklustre delay compensation (ie pro tools)


The dry/wet feature is great though

[wildpark]

first this one is answered by trillfactor and other ones last months,

short version

1. delay compensation is not good enouth today ! (iam working with protools 7.4.1 hd mac pro leo 10.5)

2. i talked with george massenburg last weeks and he told us in düsseldorf germany

that he didnt care about phase problems ! and presented us some tracks from a

abba musical in las vergas and some of his own recordings in 5.1 with a wunderfull female country singer relased next time on his own weblabel,

in that hearing i heard a lot of honestly ! wows from the pro audience about the quality presented there (one of them was fritz from from studiomagazin.de

Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES

So today I had a interesting conversation with an very experienced Engineer 25+ years.
He told me that he sees parallel compression on Digital systems as very critical because of phase issues.

I never had the feeling to have trouble with it but may be there are some more reasons which make it useless on digital systems???

[Mr.HOLMES]

@wildpark
So you think if I do not hear anything everything is fine????

I mixed a lot of songs with parallel compression and never had the impression that there is phasing. Today is the first day that I hear that Delay compensation in logic is not 100% correct. Strange.......

[A440]

I'm using parallel compression in Logic and not hearing any phasing issues...the pdc can jump on an off a bit until the system works out what it's doing (but that's another story, probably duende related).

[David Rick]

Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES

Another solution is to use a plug in compressor with build in mix 0-100% knob such as the new logic compressor or stuff by PSP whci I ahve seen yesterday.

AMmunition, from Magix, has this feature as well. Really dynamite optical compressor plug in. Right now, it's available only with Samplitude Pro and Sequoia, but some other AM-series effects have been released as stand-alone VST, so perhaps AMmunition will follow eventually.

Or you could mix your project in Samplitude Pro and have it today!

David

[siriusbliss]

Originally Posted by David Rick

AMmunition, from Magix, has this feature as well. Really dynamite optical compressor plug in. Right now, it's available only with Samplitude Pro and Sequoia, but some other AM-series effects have been released as stand-alone VST, so perhaps AMmunition will follow eventually.

Or you could mix your project in Samplitude Pro and have it today!

David

one up on Ammunition! Probably one the best plugs I've heard in a long time. Definitely my first go-to plug for mixdown.

Greg

[u b k]

if you mult a track in a daw, send one path thru a sample delay plug, and add one single sample of delay to it, the phasing will be beyond obvious.

are people claiming that this is happening and it's somehow not noticeable?


gregoire
del
ubk
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