ITB mixing meets outboard processing: Ideas?

[drosophila]

I've seen a few posts regarding blending outboard gear with an ITB mixing setup, so I know (in a general sense) what i'm trying to accomplish, but i'm wondering if I can bounce some ideas off a few of you.

My overall idea is to mix an audio interface with a small cadre of outboard equipment.. I do experimental-electronic stuff, and vocals tend to be the least of my concerns. However, I am looking to warm up my synths a bit, get a good rig for adding subtle shape and character to them (though not necessarily through heavy coloration). Flute may be added at some point, too.

On the whole, i'm thinking:
- Buzzaudio SSA-1.1
My intent is to run this as a vocal pre and DI.. price is good, too.

- HHB Radius 20
I've had trouble finding EQ's that aren't total $100 crap or beautiful $5000 racks that are way, way beyond budget for the foreseeable future. I'd get a Massive Passive if I could, but that ain't happening!

- RME Fireface 800 or M-Audio Audiophile 192?
The reason for such a stark difference between these choices is that i'm wondering if the Fireface is really worth the price, or if it might be better to grab the M-Audio and save cash for the Buzz SSA, rather than wasting cash on potentially sub-par preamps on the RME. Converters, i'm told, are fair enough on each, though I don't expect that to play a really significant difference for me.

- TC Electronic Triple-C
Something tells me you're all going to suggest the Distressor..i've considered both, but i'm not sure I really need heavy-duty compression. For the time being, I intend to use the Triple-C as more of an envelope shaper, rather than traditional compressor.

Apologies in advance if this is considered more "low-end", but i'm trying to get a range of suggestions, not just the absolute most budget friendly.

Anyway, ideas guys? Does this seem like a sound plan, or am I under/over-compensating somewhere?

[badperson]

what daw are you going to use?

I was thinking of using cubase and an rme multiface so I could use hardware inserts. I'd be interested to hear what you and others thought.

I think the fireface is similar to the multiface, but the fireface has pres on it. I would just get your own pres, you could get a couple channels of rnp for less money than the fireface.

bp

[drosophila]

I tend to prefer Sonar, actually... It's not that I dislike Cubase or anything, but from a UI perspective, it just feels "right". Audio engine bashing that tends to go on between the camps aside, both are nicely featured, though.

I gotta say, the Multiface sounds like a damned good idea. I'd still probably save up for the Buzz SSA rather than an RNP, though :)

[Buddhaman]

Ummm...sx3 has external effect compensation

so you can send to a hardware compressor or eq or reverb during mixing and then go back into the DAW and out of the main stereo mix or external summer etc...

buddhaman

[Black Seal]

Dude,
I feel your pain. What to do? I want my recording to sound great, but do I get next? I've been going through this for a awhile. This year I finally broke down and purchased the most significant improvements for my rig. A good pre/di and converters. I run the converter outputs directly to my monitors(any other way and the sound will take on any detrimental qualities of 'poorer' gear you're using). Going off topic, the UAD-1 fairchild has been a godsend when it comes to the mixbus. It also can do slight stereo width control. If you're wondering I do hip hop/dance music. The buzz unit would be a great place to start, but don't forget about your converters. I use the maudio 1010, but now I'm bypassing the converters. Buy the 2496, and purchase some great converters. DO NOT go half-ass on this. Pre/DI, conveters, UAD-1, and call it a day. Seriously. Again, I feel your pain. Any other specifics I will be more than happy to respond.
Black Seal

[drosophila]

Originally posted by Buddhaman
Ummm...sx3 has external effect compensation

buddhaman

Shit, I hadn't even noticed that. I get so hypnotized reading those lame marketing comparisons, it's easy to miss things like this...

I definitely dig the idea of blending those into the VST mixer, though. Cool idea.

Out of curiousity, though, have you gotten to work with SX3 (and this feature) directly?

[drosophila]

Originally posted by Black Seal
I use the maudio 1010, but now I'm bypassing the converters. Buy the 2496, and purchase some great converters. DO NOT go half-ass on this. Pre/DI, conveters, UAD-1, and call it a day. Seriously. Again, I feel your pain. Any other specifics I will be more than happy to respond.
Black Seal

What type of converters did you pick up?

I'm all for good sound, but i've gotta have a limit. General buzz seems to indicate that RME has pretty nice converters - enough so that it may not really merit dropping $1700-$2000 for Apogee/Genex/etc stuff.

If we're just talking about a DAC, then that's a whole different issue, imo, if only because I can grab a Benchmark DAC1 or Apogee Mini-DAC for a fairly cheap price.

[badperson]

Out of curiousity, though, have you gotten to work with SX3 (and this feature) directly?

I'm curious about this, too. This is one of the main reasons I want to get cubase.

Also, are the converters on the multiface good? I've heard they're a step up from motu, and heads above the 001 I use now.

bp

[Black Seal]

Hey,
I picked up a set of Lucid ADA 9624's from Mercenary. The AD set made the most difference to me when stacking vox and synths. With the DA, I could instantly get a better picture of the mix and am better able to do a better job with it. What pre's/di's are you currently using?
Black Seal

[drosophila]

Originally posted by Black Seal
Hey,
I picked up a set of Lucid ADA 9624's from Mercenary. The AD set made the most difference to me when stacking vox and synths. With the DA, I could instantly get a better picture of the mix and am better able to do a better job with it. What pre's/di's are you currently using?
Black Seal

Ack again, I forgot about Lucid.. nice, affordable stuff. It's be nice to see a comparison of sorts between their stuff and the RME. I'm inclined to believe (hope?) that they're an improvement.

Currently, i'm running very stripped down, with no pres *or* di's. The main reason for this, besides a long stint of unemployment last year, is that i'm switching from all software to a mix of everything. For dynamics processing, though, I find that I greatly prefer outboard.. just adds more depth than most plugins i've heard, imo. It's kinda like hearing music from the 30's and 40's (say, Louis Armstrong) on vinyl rather than re-mastered CD... it's just more natural to my ears, imperfections and all.

[Black Seal]

I'm not sure of how the rme stuff sounds, but from my current delta 1010, it was an improvement. I upgraded my pre/di before I did the converters. I still noticed a definite improvement over a drawmer mx-60 I was using before. The pre/di I'm using now is an A Designs MP-2. Can't say enough good things about what it did to improve my vox tracks. I would go for an outboard compressor right now, but $3000 for a good outboard stereo compressor is not in the cards right now. I use the UAD stuff plus Sonalksis and some digitalphishphones plugs without complaint.

Black Seal

[drosophila]

Originally posted by Black Seal
I'm not sure of how the rme stuff sounds, but from my current delta 1010, it was an improvement. I upgraded my pre/di before I did the converters. I still noticed a definite improvement over a drawmer mx-60 I was using before. The pre/di I'm using now is an A Designs MP-2. Can't say enough good things about what it did to improve my vox tracks. I would go for an outboard compressor right now, but $3000 for a good outboard stereo compressor is not in the cards right now. I use the UAD stuff plus Sonalksis and some digitalphishphones plugs without complaint.

Black Seal

Sonalksis, UA, and digitalfishphones all do good work... digitalfishphones, it's worth noting, now works for Magix hacking away at Samplitude.

Anyway, i'm wholly agree with you about the converters, but I also have to watch my budget while still serving my needs. Ultimately, I think i've decided on pairing the RME Multiface with the RME ADI-2 AD/DA. Plenty of analog i/o, no cash wasted on mediocre preamps, and serviceable conversion without killing my finances. Pair 'em together, and I can rack them up together nice and tidy.

I'm open to other ideas, but all things considered, this seems like it'd work quite nicely (provided the ADI-2 actually provides a real improvement on the Multiface)

[streetbeats]

I did something similar.

Started with lots of hardware, mainly synths, samplers, digital FX.

Sold em all pretty much except a few choice boxes. Went all ITB for a while then did the following:

- Bought decent external DA's (RME ADI-8)
- Had a 16 ch external passive summing box built
- Run that through gain stage of my choice

I use SX3, but am waiting for a few bug fixes on more basic things before I attempt to start using the delay compensation for some of my otboard comps and stuff.

Sounding better than ever !

[headz]

I agree to go streetbeats route, get best AD/DA you can afford (RME, Lucid, ???) easily without braking the bank- keep in mind stability and good driver improvements of your audiocard drivers are very important, best look and compare seriously for this issue. RME is the best way for stabilty with good sound IMO but you may have other favourites.

having a sum box is definitely worth it soundwise, also for electronic music (just think that many of your electronic favourite classic tracks were produced on analog boards), this may give you wire problems with you'd want inserting some EQs to your DAW tracks, but a good patchbay will help you get flexibility there...

various eqs, DIs for coulouring are best coosen from a wide range, so consider to get some some (cheap) electro harmonix style guitar effect pedals, maybe ridge farm 'gas cooker' DI for making sound & colour, and a good EQ/channelstrip for voice and special instruments (focusrite, Amek CIB, etc.)

this will give you a environment for making experiments while keeping good sound quality.

[drosophila]

Since we're on the topic of converters..

Let's say I wind up buying the Multiface, or any ol' 8x8 audio interface. Am I really going to get much more out of an 8-channel converter, like the ADI-8 DS, versus a 2-channel like the ADI-2, upcoming Benchmark ADC, or Apogee PSX?

From a general perspective, you pay more for 8-channels. However, from a quality perspective, it seems like I might benefit more from a high-quality 2-channel ad/da than I would from a mid-quality 8-channel.

Thoughts? Any huge limitations i'd notice?

[Black Seal]

Converters are 1/2 half of the picture. Good pres/di's are the other half. If you're recording just electronic music, stereo should suffice. I'll offer the same advice as I've countless times before. Garbage in, garbage out. It's more important to get a good signal in, and then manipulate it to get what you want.
Black Seal

[streetbeats]

you'd only want more than 2 channel D/A really if you are going to be summing OTB - which is a whole other topic.

The benefits of external summing were obvious to me once Id tried it....

[BenJah]

Well.. All I want to say is that if you buy the ssa 1.1 you won't be dissappointed. I run a 002r and buying the ssa made a huge difference. The d.i is amazing . Especially for bass.