Taming a 24" Kick for Recording

[relaxo]

I just bought my first drumset, an 80's Yamaha Recording Custom kit. I took the 24" kick to my Russian steam bath, but it just wouldn't shrink into a 22", so what do I do?

So far, I haven't been able to get a decent sound out of it, it has no body and a lame click. My previous loaner kit, a Sonor Sonic Plus kit had a stunning 22" bass drum that everyone loved and was "automatically" good w/o any fuss EVERYDAY. It had no resonant head and a store bought foam dampening ring around the batter head.

Why is an extra 2" not a good thing here? How do I make my 24" Yamaha Recording Custom kick into such a stunner?

Variables (besides drummer):
pedal
beater
beater head
dampening
resonant head
hole in resonant head

Any clues for me?

Thanks,

Scott

[toolskid]

what heads you got on there?

[relaxo]

Remo Weatherking Pinstripe Bass with the beater and a black Yamaha head on the resonator side with a 13" hole dead center.

[toolskid]

ok - the 13" hole dead centre effectively negates any effects of the front head (any hole greater than 6" tend to do this), try a powerstroke 3 or 4 or one of the aquarian superkick range of batter heads and perhaps an aquarian regulator batter head too, maybe one with an offset hole may help you with livening up your kick. Hope this may help. Also how are you tuning the kick low/high?

I've had really good results with this kick...

[joeq]

I once bought a set of 80's Ludwigs with a 24 " bass drum. I always had to struggle with recording that kick. I think part of the problem is that the drum is so large that the kick pedal beater strikes the drum too far off center.

With a small kick, say an 18", the beater is also off center the other way, but you can get one of those gizmos that lift the drum up to center the beater. I don't know if there is something that could do the opposite, i.e. - lift the pedal- but even if there was it would probably be awkward to play.

The best results I got from the 24" drum were using an Evans EQ head- the kind with a thick ring around the edge. No pillows or blankets inside usually. For more "click" you might want to try some of those badges that go on the head where the beater makes contact. There are several different styles - some have a metal disk inside them. Or keeping in the 80's theme- just tape a quarter to head.

Eventually I sold that drum and converted the set's 18" floor tom into a kick drum.

While somewhat lacking in projection on stage, the 18" sounds Great on "tape" and is a lot easier to transport to a gig.

[stinkybuffalo]

Bigger means ambient.....thus Jon Bonham...

I have two kick drums 22" and 20".
22"-Yamaha Stage Custom - Mahogany 7ply/Birch 3ply
20"(Don't underestimate)-Sears&Robuck late 70's - Ash

The 22 is my main kick so that is the one I am des ribing. I have used the same approach for the 20, but it naturally has a tighter punchier sound.

My pedal of choice is the DW dual chain drive....because it is stable, smooth, and has a great footboard. Also the beater with DW pedals is one side flat plastic (for that nice rock attack sound) and felt on the other for warmer tone. The beater is height adjustable which works great. Has worked well on both my kicked drums to stay in center of batter head.

Heads: I use the Evans Emad on beater. It comes with two different size dampening rings that are interchangeable from the outside of the drum. This makes it easy to switch when setting up. Also it has a thin pad to protect the head from the beater which I chose to use because I play pretty hard with the plastic beater. On the Resonant head I have used Evans G2 Ebony and Remo Ebony Powerstroke with success. I put a 6" hole 3-4" form the outside. I have used two ingredients to help the overall sound. The first is a 12" by 12" square of cheap egg carton foam the lays on the bottom of the kick and rests against the batter head. Then I have a fleece blanket (any small blanket, old shirt, jacket will work) rolled up and resting against the resonant head to help with boominess.

(Your playing style will affect how effective certain tunings will be. If you tune loose you have to hit hard every time. Tighter tuning allows for softer hitting but also tunes up the tone.)

Tuning: I tune my batter head 1/4-1/2 turn beyond wrinkling with each lug as close as possible to same note. Resonant head moves with sound but stays the same concept 1/4-1/2 turn beyond wrinkling. Looser=more beef.....slightly tighter=more punch.

Best of luck.....what mics are you using and
placement....

[inaudio]

Try an Audix D6 right dead center, move it closer or father to taste. Love to know if this works for you. Does for me!

[Fletcher]

Sounds as if you have a hole in the front head... this will drop the center of the bottom frequency down around like 40 Hz-ish... which isn't a good thing if you're making "rock records". When making 'rawk records' you really want to center the bottom of the drum around 80Hz [if you plan on arranging the bass to run under the kik or 60Hz is you plan on arranging the bass to run over the kik... take it on a song by song basis].

24" drums can sound amazing... don't cut a hole in the front head and the thing will tune up to center the bottom at around 80 Hz [the place you want it to be], ---and--- give you a more definitive note that is very often the little bit of magic that can really help take the emotion [assuming a great drummer] over the top.

If you think about it... we don't cut holes in the bottom heads of toms and shove a mic in there... and a kik drum is just a big assed tom that's played with a mallet instead of a stick.

Best of luck with it.

[Ted Nightshade]

Originally posted by Fletcher

If you think about it... we don't cut holes in the bottom heads of toms and shove a mic in there... and a kik drum is just a big assed tom that's played with a mallet instead of a stick.

Best of luck with it.

It's so!

Kick drum is essentially a compromise so one guy can play the whole drum kit at once. With the right mallet (NOT the usual kick beater) and my right hand, man I can make awesome "kick drum" sounds...

Another vote for intact.

[relaxo]

Thanks to all you who have taken time to help me. I have more than enough new things to try. Off to the drum shop...

[brendondp]

Hmmmm...

I'm a little bit worried about attempting to "tame" your kick. A big kick can be a beautiful thing, but my experience tells me that the right tool for the right job is a far more rewarding and much less headache inducing endeavour to pursue.

I own a 26" Gretsch kick which I absolutely love and would never part with, but "tight" and "punchy" it is not. Perfect for most of the music I like to play but pretty irrelevant for, say, an acoustic jazz trio.

I'm sure I'm preaching to the converted but if you want an AC/DC guitar sound buy an SG and a Marshall. If you want a Helmet sound buy an ESP and a VHT. Similarly, if you want Bonzo's sound get a 26" Ludwig kick and Supraphonic snare, and if you want a Stewart Copeland sound get a piccolo and take the front head off your kick.

It's horses for courses (etc, etc), but if you really want a tight and punchy kick drum sound (which I'm assuming is what made the Sonor so "great"), then honestly, I'd suggest getting a smaller kick.

However, if this isn't an option, then here's a few suggestions.

"Punch" is usually a way to descirbe the way air mass is controlled through a drum. By taking the front head off (as you did with the Sonor) means the air escapes immediately and the resonance is limited to the batter head after the initial strike. By adding a front head you "double" your resonance and introduce "boom" beacuse you've added another resonant surface and the air mass still inhabits a large area. Obviously the greater the size of the drum, and therefore the greater the surface area of the heads and the internal air volume, the more resonance ("boom") you introduce. This is usually the reason people put holes in their resonant head so as to eliminate the build up of air and hence resonance. Others tape or "muffle" their heads (with pillows, blankets, pads, etc) to achieve greater "punch" and less resonance but usually all this manages to do is rob the drum of pitch and tone. (And didn't you buy the drum cause you liked its tone and pitch?)

The best way to achieve "punch" is to deal with the air mass. A 20" kick has substantially less internal air volume than a 24" and therefore will inherently be "punchier" than it's larger counterpart. My suggestion, if you want to retain the tone and pitch capability of your Yamaha, is to reduce the internal air volume in the drum. Get some foam about 2" thick. Cut it so it's slightly smaller than the depth of your drum (if it's a 16" depth, make it 14" so that both heads remain free to resonate) and wrap it around the inside of the drum. Do this until you've achieved a smaller internal volume. If you use 2" foam then you've taken away 4" from the internal diameter of your drum and turned it into a 20" drum. Now you have a 20"x 16" air column to deal with rather the 24"x 16" air column you had previously. If the foam takes away too much "character" from the sound, wrap aluminum foil around the foam to inject some reflection. (Bonham did this aluminum foil trick to his drums to increase the refectivity and volume of his kicks.) Or, for a completely stupid idea, insert a floor tom into your kick and wrap the foam around it for a nice snug fit. Then you'll retain the "sound" of the wood. But, yeah, it is a stupid idea, really.

Then you can experiment with head selection (holes, no holes, front head, no front head) to your heart's content and you've eliminated the largest confounding variable (big air mass) from the equation.

Look, when someone turns up to a session with a 20" kick with no resonant head, a wood beater and has it suffed with a large pillow and asks to sound like Bonham IMHO they haven't really understood what variables make up a "sound". "Click" comes from the interaction between the beater and head. "Boom" comes from allowing the heads to resonate and increasing the air mass. "Pitch" comes from tuning and the composition of the drum shell. "Tone" is wildly subjective and comes from a combination of all of the above.

For what it's worth I use an Evans EQ3 Coated batter, a plastic Axis beater, a Coated Gretsch batter with no holes and no dampening of any sort. I spend a lot of time tuning both heads, and listening from both behind the kit and in front of it. That's my preference but I realise its limitations, and that micing it requires a little more time and effort than others.

If you're happy with your purchase and care about your sound then I'd really encourage you to look at all the variables and work out which ones you need to change in order to get closer to your "sound", even if that means getting a smaller drum.

Cheers,

bdp