Does anyone here just not want to make modern sounding records?

[atticus]

I have been doing a lot of thinking lately and I have come to the conclusion that I don't want to be a good engineer by todays standards, if we can even call them standards.

I don't want my recordings to compete with what's on the radio today. I want them to be better.

I don't want my masters to look like a block of Velveeta.

If it's the hottest selling piece of gear at Guitar Center I don't want it, because it's probably bad and over hyped.

I want my recordings to have life and longevity, and not just sell well in the short term because they are loud and bright

I don't want the best "x" for under $500, I want the best "x" for the task at hand.

When I call myself an engineer I want it to be true, because I understand exactly what my gear is doing and how it is doing it.

I want to be able to wade through all of the marketing crap that is going on and find gear that is well built by people that have a passion for the same things I do.

I will not believe what I read on the internet just because someone with no name, no credits, and no real proof of even being a competent engineer says it the best thing ever. That would be silly.

I will do my best to ensure that the technology that we use to do this keeps moving forward with the end goal of getting better, not just louder.








Who's with me?

[RichT]

Aye.

[mwagener]

me, me, me

right on, atticus

[quadwould]

I have been trying to put it to words as eloquently and consise as you just have, yet have always failed and in the end just been to frustrated tha i wa not getting my point across that i just said sod it.. grumble mumble argh spit...

So (long to short..) Rock On!

[Extreme Mixing]

If you look carefully out there in the big world, you will find that there are people out there who are doing good work, and have high standards. You may not aspire to be "good enough" ,someday, to mix the next big hit from Britney. That's fine. But there are guys out there who have good ideas and could probably teach all of us a few things. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Steve

[drew]

Originally posted by atticus
I will not believe what I read on the internet just because someone with no name, no credits, and no real proof of even being a competent engineer says it the best thing ever. That would be silly.

I especially like this one!! Please, if you're going to offer up opinions please include a link to your site so we can check out samples of your work. And if you're here incognito then you probably ought to stay quiet. Otherwise I'm with you!!!!!*
drew























*except when the mortgage is due and some dudes want to sound like Limp Bizkit

[atticus]

Originally posted by drew


*except when the mortgage is due and some dudes want to sound like Limp Bizkit

LOL

[tINY]

The more you "understand what your gear is doing and how" the more you will realize that 60-70% of gear advice you get is based on BS (except in the HE forum, where it's closer to 90%).

There is something to be said about sexy looking and feeling gear. But if you really know what you're doing, you can almost always get where you want to go with just a few pieces of decent gear.


-tINY

[max cooper]

Didja ever notice how most of the gear preferred for making "modern" records is either vintage or copied from or inspired by vintage?

Exceptions, ProTools and "modern classic" stuff like Empirical Labs and Crane Song stuff.

[maskedman72]

Originally posted by atticus
I have been doing a lot of thinking lately and I have come to the conclusion that I don't want to be a good engineer by todays standards, if we can even call them standards.

I don't want my recordings to compete with what's on the radio today. I want them to be better.

I don't want my masters to look like a block of Velveeta.

If it's the hottest selling piece of gear at Guitar Center I don't want it, because it's probably bad and over hyped.

I want my recordings to have life and longevity, and not just sell well in the short term because they are loud and bright

I don't want the best "x" for under $500, I want the best "x" for the task at hand.

When I call myself an engineer I want it to be true, because I understand exactly what my gear is doing and how it is doing it.

I want to be able to wade through all of the marketing crap that is going on and find gear that is well built by people that have a passion for the same things I do.

I will not believe what I read on the internet just because someone with no name, no credits, and no real proof of even being a competent engineer says it the best thing ever. That would be silly.

I will do my best to ensure that the technology that we use to do this keeps moving forward with the end goal of getting better, not just louder.








Who's with me?

im with ya.

these things take much practice.

[lasso]

Bingo...that must be why I keep buying old cheap pieces of junk (tape echoes and spring reverbs), cuz they just sound more lasting than a crappy TC machine with 10.000 diodes.

Or maybe it's because I can't afford the other sh*t.

[tonymite]

i hear distressor been reverse engineered and is not much more or if an 1176 - correct me if im wrog - try the DIY'ers at rec.org

[tonymite]

that leaves us woth pro-tools - lets not forget all the desired PT plugs - ie: bombfactory ??? pultec fairchild urei ??? UAD1 ?? need I go on ??? even if they sound nothing like em ... thwy look like em

[crypticglobe]

I was listening to the Best of the Eagles 2 CD set over the weekend. The first time through.... all I heard was songs... and I love it. The second time through.... I started to hear the production. Man... I love technology... but why have we taken all of the life and realism out of non-electronic bands? I am more of a hard rock/alternative rock guy... but I have always loved the Eagles... and I think I put my finger on why this weekend. They were musically honest. Sure, sure... maybe they cut some tape to get the best takes here and there... whatever. But, I have seen them live, and heard their live recordings. Great stuff.

Do you think that maybe the problem is that because we "have the technology" we have stopped looking for "REAL" talent? I personally I am SO tired (though it does make me money) of "fixing" bad performances.

At any rate... yes... for the most part, I am sick of what's "popular".

[Sir Bob]

I agree. The modern sound that sucks the most is what is coming out of Nashville today. It bears little relationship to country and western music. The Dixie Chicks are the exception to this.

Now I hear Brian Wilson's new SMiLE album on Pro Tools. Wow! It doesn't suck.

[MAProTulz]

And if I hear one more 12 year old girl singer with scooped distorted gtrs and a ****ing drum loop ripped off from 1992 I'm going to puke.

And why is it that teenage "actresses" think that they can automagically sing? WTF? Why the hell do Hilary Duff and Ashlee Simpson rate albums when there's actual TALENT out there?

Anyway - I'm still a young buck in this industry, and I don't think my stuff measures up to stuff done by guys I really respect (Fletcher, Steve at Granite Rocks on the local scale). I'm working towards being that sharp.

I have always held that it's not the gear, though. I'd be game to record on a Portastudio if that's all I had available. It comes down to knowing what you're doing and LISTENING. No amount of technology is going to make something shitty sound good. You can take a pair of 57's and that Portastudio and get an AMAZING drum sound if you take the time to listen and place the mics.

The gear is nice to ogle, though there's a lot of shit out there. You really only need a few pieces of gear and most importantly your skill.

Dan Roth
Otitis Media

[Ruudman]

Agree with a lot of the statements on this thread

I have a wish: bring back the technician!!!!
Let the songwriter worry about the song (and lyrics),
add a producer to lift heavy thoughts regarding arrangements of
the musicians shoulders, let the techie track and mix.
I'm sure this is done a lot, but I know how it is to work in PT/other DAWs, and it's easy to wear all hats.. even if they're all too big...


ruudman

[Ted Nightshade]

Originally posted by Ruudman
Agree with a lot of the statements on this thread

I have a wish: bring back the technician!!!!
Let the songwriter worry about the song (and lyrics),
add a producer to lift heavy thoughts regarding arrangements of
the musicians shoulders, let the techie track and mix.
I'm sure this is done a lot, but I know how it is to work in PT/other DAWs, and it's easy to wear all hats.. even if they're all too big...


ruudman

I strongly agree that teamwork is crucial, with each person having their special domain, and that this was a good part of the good old days, such as they were.

BUT!!!

I really feel we are missing the boat with the "don't worry about a thing, sweetheart, just put your all into your performance" school of would-be teamwork. I have been reading on massenburg's forum anecdotes about Frank Sinatra- one where he noticed that a transfer was not in tune with the other tracks, when nobody else noticed, at least at the time, and others about how he worked with arrangers and fed them ideas from classical music he was fascinated by. Here was a guy who knew the whole team worked, and kept an eye out for oversights or insights that could help other specialists with their work, as part of the big whole. Crucial stuff!

Although there will always be savant exceptions, being part of a team that can aspire to greatness will always involve an active interest in the activities of the other players, and the whole team having an artistic unity of vision for a given work.

No I don't want to make "modern-sounding" records!

[kevinc]

I`m with you Atty !! thumbsup

[Ruudman]

Originally posted by Ted Nightshade

..being part of a team that can aspire to greatness will always involve an active interest in the activities of the other players, and the whole team having an artistic unity of vision for a given work.

True thumbsup

ruudman

[maks]

bring back the "big band"...now that was the shit.....sorry i wasnt even born then...but damn, the grooves, the vibes, the energy. I recently saw a PBS concert of Marsalles (sorry forget spelling) big band...and wow....that is so freakin cool. boom baamm, tata. burrrrrrrrrrr..boom chi-ka..boom chika.. all these people in such harmony...almost made me cry

can you picture a big band of "laptops"...haha

[enharmonic]

I had a real fancy reply typed out, but it's a lot easier to say "I'm with ya"



I've never been interested in making music thatcompetes with the way things sound on the radio. I'm so frustrated by all of the choices in recording platforms and gear that I still haven't put together a rig. I'm thinking that I'm going to start with only those things that are necessary to get the types of tracks that I want to get.

Now...if only I could figure out just what that is.... Good pre's, good mic's, a few compressors, and a Radar will probably be the way I go. I don't need all of the plugs. i don't need more editing capability than my heroes had when they made the records I listen to over and over again. I just need a killer front end, and a way to get it all happening through some sort of console.

[kevinc]

Originally posted by maks
bring back the "big band"...now that was the shit.....sorry i wasnt even born then...but damn, the grooves, the vibes, the energy. I recently saw a PBS concert of Marsalles (sorry forget spelling) big band...and wow....that is so freakin cool. boom baamm, tata. burrrrrrrrrrr..boom chi-ka..boom chika.. all these people in such harmony...almost made me cry

can you picture a big band of "laptops"...haha

LOL@ laptops !


One of the things I allways found amazing about the old bigband recordings was the fact they had to record that stuff all at once with one take on one track for the most part. The musicians had to be top notch and the conductor had to be good too to get everything sounding even out there. Must`ve been a ton of work and it sounds like it was a ton of work.

My take is that I would like to do the stuff that sounds timeless.
To me that is.......
Bands/Artist like Wilco, Amiee Mann, Elliot Smith.
They all have a sound that seems to trancend.

I think the modern sound is just another fad like big gated snare drums.

Problem is.....not a lot of this level of talent in my world.

Most of the talent I deal with is the.......

"The first chorus is good, tune it, double it, and paste it." types.

Nobody wants to nail it anymore and everyone seems to want to sound like the radio.

drag.

D

[Midlandmorgan]

Another "me too" vote...I want to produce a product that sounds great, not modern...

Problem is so many clients come in here and get upset because their end result doesn't sound exactly like some overproduced piece of smegma they heard the night before on some line dance club's overcompressed PA...

As stated, there really is a certain irony in that we all strive to apply ultra modern technology to produce the same sounds from previous eras...But to many (self-inclusive), its just so much more convenient and cost effective to run emulations than purchase and maintain the real things...

[Switchcraft]

Most of the talent I deal with is the.......

"The first chorus is good, tune it, double it, and paste it." types.

Nobody wants to nail it anymore and everyone seems to want to sound like the radio.


Damn that is True. I worked in a mid sized studio in philly for about 18 monthes as a main tracking engineer and I saw this almost evertime everyday. the thing is that you can almost not blame them. its all about finances. people are broke and they are using everything they can to get there art out there. I recorded some amazing bands that didnt make it anywere. its sad, but true. That is why I dont agree with the idea that if you dont have a major label credit you shouldnt speak on what gear sounds good, like previously said. I think that is nonsense. Besides you can get major label credit from doing very little. Just being in the right place at the right time. ofcourse you do have to do what you do to get to that place, but...
just because people arent mothered in discographies doesnt mean they dont know something you dont. I learned that by working in audio schools.

[bloodstone]

When I do work for hire, I do what the customer wants. If they want me to try and make them sound like Britney or whatever, that's what I try to do. If they're lost and aimless, I try to guide them toward what I believe fits their art. When I do my own stuff, I aim for a timeless classic sound. However, I make a point never to rule out any possibility, because in a certain situation with the right artist or song, it might work. Lately I've been toying with the idea of trying to ape some of the commercial garbage that's being touted right now, just for the sake of experiment. A lot of the program radio FM stuff does sound pretty damn amazing.

[Ted Nightshade]

I told a mastering engineer I wanted the album to sound like classic, timeless... he responded "timeless classic- should be easy!" What I'm after though!

Originally posted by enharmonic


I've never been interested in making music thatcompetes with the way things sound on the radio. I'm so frustrated by all of the choices in recording platforms and gear that I still haven't put together a rig. I'm thinking that I'm going to start with only those things that are necessary to get the types of tracks that I want to get.

Now...if only I could figure out just what that is.... Good pre's, good mic's, a few compressors, and a Radar will probably be the way I go. I don't need all of the plugs. i don't need more editing capability than my heroes had when they made the records I listen to over and over again. I just need a killer front end, and a way to get it all happening through some sort of console.

You are so way ahead that haven't sunk for a rig that's not what you need, like so many of us did first and probably second time around! You should start a thread, let's talk about it. Exactly what you NEED to do. In my case, I NEED to be able to record two really fine mics and channels direct to stereo through excellent converters (or tape, but I got no tape op, so that's a lot of wait and work... oh for a tape-op!). I'd like to be able to do overdubs and that, but some bigtime expenditures would be needed to do that well, as well as mucking about in a computer. I'd get a RADAR if it had a top-flight internal mixer, just sum and pan would do it, but I don't see getting a DAW just to mix (I hate trying to make music with computers), and I don't see doing a D/A to mix to A/D, either. I can just about afford what I NEED, overdubs remain a luxury I can't afford! Not and have it sound like I want it to.

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by dpasch
My take is that I would like to do the stuff that sounds timeless.
To me that is.......
Bands/Artist like Wilco, Amiee Mann, Elliot Smith.
They all have a sound that seems to trancend.

Really? Trancend? Hmm...

[drew]

that's just it, it's so subjective. Zappa was right---"talking about music is like dancing about architecture"