Anyone using DFHS or BFD for drums?

[sharpeleven]

I had some difficulties also initially. The dfh manual does not answer all questions. I can really recommend though to register on their site so you can access the online library of files. There are various templates for all major sequence apps to get you started. After that it's really a no brainer.

[chrisso]

Originally posted by LongWave
y'know that video demo on page 1 of this thread? whats the deal, does anyone know? was it recorded in, and then triggered in a daw or something?

It's purely a real drummer, triggering the sounds from the DFHS plug-in (in real time) by playing pads (an E Drum kit).
Could you not see the video?

[captain54]

Originally posted by Curve Dominant

It IS time consuming, yes, but I've got this whole system worked out, and then there's these mixing tricks I use, and... and... Yes, I'm quite mad.



I like doing it the old fashioned way, like writing drum notes on a scoresheet.

Please share some of your mixing tips....I believe this a key part of using these virtual drum sampler sets...

I use the DFH multiformat version with Logic 7 and EXS 24...very easy on the computer.....its the version before DFH Superior....with the right amount of tweaking, you CAN get these drums to hold up in a mix....

the best way to program these things, I've found, is to trigger them for a set of drum pads....I suppose I drum Kat or an SPd-20 could work, but I'm triggering thru V-drums....record the tune thru one of the kits in the module and then transfer the midi performance to DFH.....very, very stingy with the quantizing also...

initially I found the hats and cymbals sucked, but I've found a few workarounds...mostly eq and compression on the close mic kit parts, bussed to a Renn 4band EQ with a setting suggested by Toontrack...then all the room kit parts bussed to a Logic channel strip room mic EQ preset seems to work pretty well, along with some compression, very lite touch of Space Designer small drum room verb, and a stereo spreader for some separation...

they actually do hold up pretty well in a mix....I suppose the newer versions would sound even better, provided your computer can hold up....

[LongWave]

is there any way i can trigger DKFH superior's sounds from say a drum kit that i have already recorded?
because i thought that you cant get the individual wave files out of the thign, but is there an easy way to trigger the sounds using an audio file?

[captain54]

Originally posted by chrisso
Getting back to the original question.........
I'm sceptical about the realness of E-Drums, but this recent 'DFH Superior' demo absolutely blew me away:

http://www.toontrack.com/demos/chicken_low.mov

(25mb file by the way)

I even wrote to Toontrack asking if the hi-hats and cymbals were all samples.....and they are.

Can BFD do this level of realism?


BTW, I think the other sample set mentioned before was Scarbee (which is said to be very good, but only one DW kit sampled).

I watched the demo too, and I'd be curious to know.....

that hi hat looked very much like it was a real hi hat.....was it a hi hat trigger and a pedal controller?

what was the computer and software setup?

[chrisso]

Originally posted by captain54

that hi hat looked very much like it was a real hi hat

The hi-hat, in fact every cymbal, was a pad triggering DFHS samples. I asked Toontrack myself.

what was the computer and software setup?

I don't know, but if you watch this other movie it shows you the control room and goes out in to the room where you can hear the drummer tappng on the pads.
http://www.toontrack.com/demos/behind_low.mov

[borut]

just one question!!
I am not a BFD user but I have a friend that uses it.
He has brought me a few sessions of drums he programmed, exported them to audio (multitrack) so I could open them in pro-tools (I don't have BFD installed), but every time he had brought the BFD sessions I had quite some problems to get a decent sound out of kick. I think we have tried all kits of the original BFD all with not all that much success.

Is it me, is he doing something wrong,...???

[sharpeleven]

Originally posted by LongWave
is there any way i can trigger DKFH superior's sounds from say a drum kit that i have already recorded?
because i thought that you cant get the individual wave files out of the thign, but is there an easy way to trigger the sounds using an audio file?

yes, you can either extract midi events out of an audio file by using one of the many sequecer programs with a built in audio to midi feature (like Logic, no PT...) or just do it the good old fashioned way by sending your drum tracks out to a module with trigger inputs like the Alesis DM5 or Axon AX100....

[LongWave]

hmmph, that's the only way to do it though is it?im using nuendo. as far as im aware, it has no audio to midi feature. i know drumagog will generate a midi note, maybe i can get that to work somehow.

[sharpeleven]

Originally posted by captain54

what was the computer and software setup?

from what I can see in the second movie posted it looks like they used a Apple desktop computer (white keybord & new 20inch Apple Monitor...) and ProTools via RTAS. I'm sure they got lottsa RAM...

[Timsplace]

I'm amazed no one has come up with a plugin to do the Audio to MIDI easily and CHEAPLY! With the onslought of all these new drum modules and the implimentation of multichannel wav's, hopefully someone will come up with a solution OTHER than buying Logic for $999 just to trigger drum sounds. I'm hoping DIGI will roll the functionality into Soundreplacer (makes sense NO?).

Tim

Originally posted by sharpeleven
yes, you can either extract midi events out of an audio file by using one of the many sequecer programs with a built in audio to midi feature (like Logic, no PT...) or just do it the good old fashioned way by sending your drum tracks out to a module with trigger inputs like the Alesis DM5 or Axon AX100....

[marty martin]

I second that.
I'm no programmer but it must be fairly easy to create an RTAS plugin that can convert audio to MIDI.
And yes I agree that Soundreplacer should have had that functionality in it from day one.

[chrisso]

Originally posted by Timsplace I'm hoping DIGI will roll the functionality into Soundreplacer (makes sense NO?).

But Sound Replacer is so pathetic.
What's the point of using SR these days, with only 3 (clunky) levels of velocity sample switching.
A major overhaul of SR is long overdue, in which case they could include audi to midi. Otherwise I think Pro Tools users would be better off hoping a 3rd party comes out with a plug-in.
Maybe the guy who devolped the AptTrigger thingy.

[captain54]

Originally posted by Timsplace
I'm amazed no one has come up with a plugin to do the Audio to MIDI easily and CHEAPLY! Tim

If there was a way to seamlessly integrate a set of midi drum pads with BFD or DFHS and have a zero latency, workable setup. without a need for a massive bank of computers to power it, it would eliminate the need for audio to midi conversion.....you would just have the drummer play thru the samples in real time, like music was meant to be played....

I've watched the DFHS toontrack video at least 3 times and I still am skeptical as to whether they have a fully workable midi hi hat rig going....that is usually the deal breaker with these things...

without a workable hi hat solution the whole thing is pretty much useless for playing in real time....

[kittonian]

I have no problem playing drumpads in real time with DFHS (including the hi hat). You just need a super powerful setup with loads of ram to make it happen. I am doing it on a Dual 2.5ghz G5 with 4GB RAM. The entire kit is loaded into RAM and my buffer settings are at either 64 or 128 at 96khz using a Lynx AES-16. So, it can be done but you need the power behind it without a doubt.

Secondly, there is a plugin that does audio to midi triggering but it's only MAS and it's made by MOTU (it's called Trigger and comes with DP).

[chrisso]

The hi-hat is pad and samples.

[sharpeleven]

Originally posted by captain54
[b]
I've watched the DFHS toontrack video at least 3 times and I still am skeptical as to whether they have a fully workable midi hi hat rig going....that is usually the deal breaker with these things...

I know it must be difficult to believe just from watching a quicktime movie, specially when you have no prior experience with dfhs. I guess that kinda speaks for the rather groundbreaking nature of this program... sorry guys, I just love dfhs and it keeps amazing me every time I use it. it definitely works for live programming also. If you don't have at least 2GB memory for it alone, you could deactivate all the extra crashes and other cymbals, maybe just keep a short splash for programming. That way it won't tax your cpu as much. Later you can bring'em cymblz back for bouncing.

Re HiHat: I think that's the Hat they used....

http://media.zzounds.com/media/brand...478977bb68.jpg

[Tibbon]

In case everyone reading hasn't go the message, these things take MASSIVE computers to run. I thought with Gigasampler being able to run on a variety of PCs and without BOATLOADs of memory, that it would be fine (or so i've hear about Giga). BFD says you need 512mb memory, or 1gb with PT. MY ASS! I've got 2gb on a DP 1.25 G4, and that's the only way it will run decently(BFD anyway...) . Truthfully, i could really use a G5 upgrade about now for this sucker....

[captain54]

Originally posted by sharpeleven
Re HiHat: I think that's the Hat they used....

http://media.zzounds.com/media/brand...478977bb68.jpg

yes, I did finally get a chance to get a good look at it....it's a roland vh-12.....probably worth twice what the dfhs software costs....

the rest of the kit looked liked Hart Dynamics.....I had one very similiar, expect for the hi hat controller and DFHS...

when all is said and done, that dfhs rig used in the video, (software, e-drums, pads, cymbals, controllers, computer)..is probably up near the 10 K range ...

probably no where near what your average dfhs user is going spend on a rig, so he shouldn't expect the same performance....

[chrisso]

Yes, it states on the Toontrack website that the E-Drums used were a Roland TD20 brain, wth a mixture of Roland and Hart pads.

Originally posted by captain54

when all is said and done, that dfhs rig used in the video, (software, e-drums, pads, cymbals, controllers, computer)..is probably up near the 10 K range ...
probably no where near what your average dfhs user is going spend on a rig,

I think that's a bit of a harsh assesment.
A lot of people looking at software like BFD and Superior will already have Logic, Cubase, Performer or Pro Tools on a reasonably powerful computer.
In the end, I think that amount of realism, with 35 gigs of samples for $300 is sensational value for money. A Lacie drive dedicated to storing the sounds is only going to cost you $200.

[captain54]

getting the samples in DFD or DFHS and the sampler to work with a set of e-drum pads in a real time situation with very low latency, very low buffer settings with no clicks or pops, farts or burps, is going to take a MONDO computer my friend...especially if you are overdubbing drums to an already sequenced performance ....

[max cooper]

Y'know I've worked out the hi hat thing with BFD. I call a drummer and ask him to bring a hi hat.

A real hat adds mondo realism to fake drums.

[LumenStudio]

In my opinion Scarbee Imperial Drums for Kontakt sound superior to BFD XFL. I own both as well as several thousand dollars of other drum sample cds.

Scarbee has much better hats, much better cymbals, better snares, and better kicks. I really like that scarbee imperial drums were recorded in a smaller room than BFD kits. This makes adding the room and overheads a lot better to my ears. I can get that full sound and then add ambience with the Eventide 2016 to taste. Um, this setup is incredible.

They are very fast to setup as well.

Cheers,
Lumen

[schmeete]

I just want to add my praise for DFHS. Although not without its problems when setting up for the first time, I think that DFHS has alot of "Class" in its sound. Frankly I have never ever heard such an organic natural midi drum kit. The end results once you bounce to tracks are just stupefieing. Also because of their natural sound they respond extremely well to overprocessing if so wished. You can crank in Hi End Digitally and the kit never gets harsh.

Especially for those looking for a Drum kit in sparse arrangements where there is space in the mix to perceive the nuances of individual instruments, DFHS is incredible.

Pete

[johnjm22]

I must admit that I didn't take the time to read this whole thread, (it's long), so maybe my question has already been answered but........

Can you rip the individual samples straight from BFD? I ask this because I use soundreplacer to augment/replace my drum hits.

What exactly does the BFD plugin do? It says its RTAS compatible. I'm just looking for away to replace my drum hits (kick, snare, and toms) in PT.

[Renie]

How are people using PT with dfh?

Is it via the Xpansion rewire adapter?

Is it relatively stable?!!

thanks

Rene

[chrisso]

DFHS producers (Toontrack) are using Pro Tools themselves.
On the other hand, a few DFHS users are having up and down experiences.
Check their forum for the lowdown:
http://www.toontrack.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl

Toontrack don't have a telephone helpline, so all the set up problems seem to be aired on the forum. This is great because it provides a wealth of information for other people, but it does make for scary reading at times.

[nvtmusic]

Hi
I am using it with just Rewire
in protools 6.7.
I put the 3 rewire icons -aliases on my desk top .(Mac)
Drummer - Percussionist - cocktail.
I open these , or which one I am using before I open the plugin .
This has worked well for me . Mine is triggered from a midi track.
- It is finnally set up working good.
But it was a pain getting to that point - lots of trial and error
on my part . Hope that helps,
Mike

www.northernvermontmusic.com

[Buddhaman]

I'm amazed no one has come up with a plugin to do the Audio to MIDI easily and CHEAPLY! With the onslought of all these new drum modules and the implimentation of multichannel wav's, hopefully someone will come up with a solution OTHER than buying Logic for $999 just to trigger drum sounds. I'm hoping DIGI will roll the functionality into Soundreplacer (makes sense NO?).

Tim


_________________________________________

there's a $99 program that you can use called midifier

http://www.knzaudio.com/index.php

Buddhaman

[Shan]

BFD works great for me in PT. But I'm really looking forward to Drumagog BFD for any drum replacement. Drumagog BFD is essentially Drumagog triggerring BFD.

TL DrumRehab also looks promising in the drum replacement department.

Shane