SM7 and SM57... what do you know?

[guitarbth]

Hello all,
I have a small songwriting/demo studio in my home and I am in need of a good vocal mic. Im considering the SM7. However, I dont even have a large condenser yet. I have an SM57 at the moment and two AKG 451s. Would it be worth it to get the SM7 although I already have a 57 or should I go for a large condenser? For my purposes, songwriting and demoing, would the SM7 be that much of a difference over the 57? Thanks. Your input is greatly appreciated.

[chessparov]

Well if Walter Sear says the SM57 an "excellent mic" that's good enough for me. He's got a vintage mic collection to die for BTW.

IMHO the SM7 has a more "hi-fi" sound off the shelf-not necessarily objectively better.
That'll depend on the singer and material.

Both are very flexible to place/EQ to get high quality sound, and are somewhat fussy about what pre you use. (Mackie/Behringer mixers won't cut it)

A couple of budget alternatives to the SM7 that are initially smoother than the '57 IMHO are;

1) Beyer Soundstar MKII also known as M400
or Model 400.

2) Shure 548, 546, or SM56.

I have a modest pre based on the M-Audio DMP2, which is a notch above a Mackie.

The alternatives mentioned all do better on it vs. a SM57. Having a "made in USA" SM57, however, it could be brought to a pro
studio which has a premium pre for excellent results. The ones made in Mexico are less consistant in sound quality. Typically have less top end, and are thinner in tone.

As you may know, the best method is to try various choices. After a period of experimentation, for example, it turned out that different incarnations of the Shure Unidyne capsule were right up there with uber-expensive condensers for my voice.
YMMV.

FWIW all the lead vocals on "Pet Sounds" were recorded on a Shure 545, so if the singer/mic match is right it can sound great.

Other potentially cool dynamics include the Beyer M88, EV RE20, RE15 (RE16), and Sennheiser 441.

Haven't tried the new Rodes or ADK's, but the most impressive LDC under $500 on me was the Studio Projects T3, which is a multi-pattern. Thought it sounded a lot more expensive, and was clearly superior to the U87ai in this instance. Pre's used were Grace and Avalon 737 respectively.

Chris

[guitarbth]

Yeah... I'll be running it through a Jensen, John Hardy 990 pre that I built.

[chessparov]

Man, that sounds like a great pre.

So...

What do you like/dislike using the SM57 so far?

I know that 451's have been used on sopranos with impressive results. Wonder how well they work on male vocalists, or if they're usually too bright?

Chris

[drundall]

I like 58's with that pre. I believe MW used to use that combo at times. He taught me not to thumb my nose at those utilitarian Shure mics!

[JonCraig]

i *much* prefer the sm7 to the 57. and if the 7 works for your voice, then it should absolutely be in your cabinet. i'm trying to think of a better moving coil mic, and all i'm coming up with is the EV-RE20, and (maybe) senn. 441. those could be some other options for you, but they'll be more pricey than the sm7. they'll all be less expensive, however, than a truly good sounding LD condenser.

the 7 is more flexible (IMO) that the 57. i've used it on kick, bass cab, vocals, snare, guitar (elec. cab and acoustic), the list goes on. and while of course i have used the 57 on all of those, i actually liked the sm7 on 'em.

it's just a taste thing, of course, but here's one vote in favor of the sm7.

--jon

[brownmouse]

i guess it depends on your budget.... if you have $300-$400 to spend then don't get a large diaphram condensor. in that case i'd lean more towards another good dynamic. if you can spend a bit more then the gefell m-930 would be a good contender.
as to the 57 vs. 7 thing... both are great. i usually tend to use the 57's on snare and the sm-7 on guitar cabs, toms and vocals.... but it depends on the situation.
good luck,
joshua

[Groove Dog]

the SM7 is completely different than a 57. night and day. they've both got some killer midrange, but it really stops there.

the SM7's a true desert island mic... you can use it on kick drum or vocals (it's amazing on rock vocals that need to sit in the mix).

it certainly depends on what you record most (instrumentally and in terms of genre) -

but the SM7 is a great mic - and in 5 years you'll still be going back to it... whereas you'll probably replace/upgrade from/grow out of a cheap large diaphragm condenser.

[guitarbth]

Well the thing that hasnt made me totally happy with the 57 is just the lack of that more pretty sound. If the SM7 is more "hi-fi," then that may be what Im looking for. The 57 sounds pretty good, I guess its just not quite hitting the spot. My converters/interface is pretty crappy so that may be the holding back the potential of my chain. Anyway, thanks for the input. I'd love to hear more.

Brandon

[jbuntz]

If you had a studio of only SM7b's, everything would sound fine. It's more forgiving than most LDC's I've used. You can use one like a U87 or other workhouse LDC, and I usually prefer the SM7b unless you need a different pickup pattern, a lot of air or really extended bottom. The SM7b rocks on everything I've tried it on. The only thing I thought it was questionable on was kick drum and even then, it's a cool sound. Just not a good standard kick sound.

The SM57 has a so-so batting average by comparison. It might sound better on snare drum but that's about it.

[Sir Bob]

Where can I get an SM7? Banjo Center doesn't carry them even though they do carry Shure.

What is a fair price?

[JonCraig]

i think they're usually in the 300 ballpark on ebay. maybe 400.

[Emil]

You can get 'em at Musicians Friend for $350.

[meteor]

couldn't get happy with an sm-57 on guitars... tried a Royer 121 that really shined on a lot of things but not what i wanted for guitars... borrowed a friends sm7b. let's just say he hasn't seen it for a while. it just kills on electrics. haven't used it for anything else.

cheers,

[pan]

SM7 needs GainGainGain, so a clean pre is a MUST!

n

[jbuntz]

The newer SM7b has a lot more gain. Still not as much gain as a 57 but it hasn't been problematic yet.

[HudHudson]

I love my 57s but the SM 7 is da sh*t. No better mic for tracking rock vox in the control room without cans. Listen to Sheryl Crow's "Globe Sessions" CD for a taste of that application.

[kellyd]

SM7 gets more use for vocs than any other mic I own. Lately my U99 has stayed in it's case. Unless I have a vocalist w/ a great voice and technique it's the Sm7b to the rescue. Even on great singers it never lets me down. Easy on sibillant singers and gives you a natural in your face presence with just the right amount of information on vocals. Best value of any mic I've bought. Every studio should own at least one. K.

[kevinc]

Originally posted by kellyd
SM7 gets more use for vocs than any other mic I own. Lately my U99 has stayed in it's case. Unless I have a vocalist w/ a great voice and technique it's the Sm7b to the rescue. Even on great singers it never lets me down. Easy on sibillant singers and gives you a natural in your face presence with just the right amount of information on vocals. Best value of any mic I've bought. Every studio should own at least one. K.

I`ve had the same experiance with the Sennheiser 441 and the U99. I love the U99 but for $250 off ebay the 441 seems to do the trick like 75% of the time.

I gotta get an SM7 as well pretty soon.

Maybe it`s just the fact that in my early years I was using exlusively dynamics for so long but I`m really finding I`m prefering their sound these days to the condensors I`ve used.

Especially the "high end" dynamics. They seem to combine the sounds I was used to getting in the past with a much clearer sound. Kind of like the condensers without the grit or something.

[guitarbth]

Well I think you guys have officially talked me into an SM7. Even though I dont have a LCD, I rather put my little bit of money into something that will be around for a while and will rock at what it does instead of settling for a crap low end condenser. Any more comments? Any objections? Thanks for all the input.

[Pohaku]

Get the SM7. It gets far more use as an all round great mic than any of my LD condensors. Great on vocals and guitar. I have mine loaned out to a friend who is using it for some major label talent and I'll be lucky if I see it again in a couple months. I keep on providing him with other mics, but the SM7 keeps on getting used instead. It does help to have a preamp with some gain though.

[chessparov]

Excellent choice!

Chris

[thethrillfactor]

Man you guys make the SM7 to be god's mic to man.

The SM7 is "hifi"?

An AKG C12 is "hifi".

So is a Telefunk 251.

An M49 and U47/67.

Don't ge me wrong, on screamers the SM7 is a great solution.

But most singers aren't(or they shouldn't be).

The SM7 has 2 drawbacks:

1) It needs the right mic pre to bring out its fidelity.

2) Its off axis response is not great and for vocals its crucial.

I think with your current mic choices a better choice might be to build a great relationship with the rental companies in town.

You can rent some of the best mics around and because you are not purchasing them you don't run the risk of having them just sit around not making you money.

[chessparov]

Thrill, only meant "hi-fi" relative to the SM57.
Great point regarding "off-axis", particulary for the less advanced like me.

This is why among the dynamics at home, the
EV's are much easier to self record as they are more forgiving being either Variable-D or omni.
(RE15, 666, 635a)

Chris

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by chessparov
Thrill, only meant "hi-fi" relative to the SM57.
Great point regarding "off-axis", particulary for the less advanced like me.

This is why among the dynamics at home, the
EV's are much easier to self record as they are more forgiving being either Variable-D or omni.
(RE15, 666, 635a)

Chris

Chris i was only half serious.

Yeah the off axis thing always killed me.

You'd get a great take but had to punch in a word...next thing is what happened?

Level and EQ have changed.

Oh the person moved...sh*t!!!

For some singers its no questions asked when its a dynamic in front.

For other studio singers its like...What mic is this? I've never seen this one before? What mic did we use at so and so's famous studio? Isn't it a little low? Oh i don't like my voice at all?...got a Neuman around?...got milk?

[thethrillfactor]

By the way, one way i get "fancy" singers to sing into an SM7 is i take the stupid foam off and just leave the grill exposed.

It looks a little futuristic.

They are like...wow what is this i've never seen it before?

I also use the best looking stands and a unique mic holder.

I hate to say it but singers sometimes tend to get into singing a little better when they are impressed by the mic.

[kevinc]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Chris i was only half serious.

Yeah Thrills a bit of a troublemaker.

You can`t blame him though. He is a Jets fan.


Seriously though Thrill have you ever used 441`s on vocal ? I hear the patterns not as tight so the off axis thing might not be as much as an issue but I`m wondering if I should be looking out for that more.

I usually just tell the singers with poor mic technique I will hit them with my 2x4 with nails in it if they move which seems to work.

[chessparov]

Also for Thrill...

What are some of the more affordable pre options IYO?

My understanding is that the RNP mates well with the Unidynes.

Chris

[WDG]

LOL. If M Jackson can use it for Thriller then I think most people should have enough wow factor.

Has any one compaired a SM-5b to a SM-7[b]?

[guitarbth]

THRILLER! WOW.... thats awesome. I had no idea.