most PUNCHY, dry and dark mic for acoustic guitar

[Niv]

hardly looking for that one. not big, just punchy. and dry and more dark than bright. guess it would be a dynamic as of all mics tried the shure c606 came closest.

others were kel hm1 (warm/dark, but too smooth), beyerdynamic 201 (noisy, bright, not punchy), gefell m930 (too big, too bright), rode 2k (too big, too muddy, not punchy), akg c3001b (much too bright).

[danbronson]

Try an OktavaMod Mk-319, or maybe a dynamic like the Sennheiser MD-421 or Shure SM7b...

[Doc Mixwell]

What about a Ribbon? I'd try the AEA R84, or the AEA R92. [the R92 fits your description better] For low mid thundering punch, I'd recommend the Crowley and Tripp "Naked Eye" with Roswellite, as it has a pretty punchy and mellow sounding response....it can really give you a nice color in the low mids on acoustic GTR.

[donsimpson]

You might try an EV N/D468 or RE27N/D.

[warhead]

It would be a ribbon for sure, the Peluso R14 delivers PUNCH baby...

War

[Doc Mixwell]

Yea,

I tend to think ribbons are absolutely the best way to get punch and darkness at the same time, other than using certain dynamics. What I think you get with ribbons more so than Dynamics is a certain "velvet" and overwhelmingly musical character throughout the midrange.

I would also recommend the Coles 4038........if you can afford one.
That is, if you want a microphone that you'll have FOREVER [if you respect it]

[Niv]

thank you.

surely ribbon are the distributers darls but what sounds punchy simply won´t sound "mellow" or "velvet" or "sweet" or "silky" as you hardly can snowboard in the summer sun of africa.

ribbons may be everything and even a bit dark, but punchy requires a bit more dry-/roughness.


EV N/D468 or RE27N/D
OktavaMod Mk-319
Sennheiser MD-421
Shure SM7

which is the most dry of these without having too much of brightness?

[drmmrboy]

Originally Posted by Niv

thank you.

surely ribbon are the distributers darls but what sounds punchy simply won´t sound "mellow" or "velvet" or "sweet" or "silky" as you hardly can snowboard in the summer sun of africa.

ribbons may be everything and even a bit dark, but punchy requires a bit more dry-/roughness.

Don't dismiss a ribbon too quickly.
A little "realism" can be interpreted as "dry/rough" too. Or how about "exciting". It all depends on what & how your playing it.

I had a kid bass player once ask a session cat "how can I get more punch out of it?" He replied, "play that way!"

Seriously though, check out a ribbon. If you need some top, dial it in.. Even more "exciting"..

[Niv]

emm yeah sure playing style got a certain range, but so what. its simly set that:

when all the other environmentals are same, which mic generally is the most punchy and dry especially in the mids? how about the shure sm57/58?


and don´t come with crap like neumann, i don´t wanna sound "big".

[vernier]

Never heard "punchy" regarding mics, but when I flat-pick on the D18 ..mic of choice is either a D20 or RE15.
'

[Niv]

enter at google mic and punchy and you´ll find something.


basically punchy means tight, quick, dry, aggressive. its no problem to find such but most sound too bright or too big. i need a compact midrange tone punch sound. d20 is akg? akg do mostly bright, ev too. maybe i´ll just give that shure and oktava a chance.

[vernier]

enter at google mic and punchy and you´ll find something.

Thats ok, I'll pass.
'

[TurboJets]

Originally Posted by donsimpson

You might try an EV N/D468 or RE27N/D.

I like the EV N/D468 a lot myself. I like EV's design and sound for instruments and vocals. If you can find a N/D747, they're really cool but sound alot like the 468 anyway.

[Doc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by Niv

thank you.

surely ribbon are the distributers darls but what sounds punchy simply won´t sound "mellow" or "velvet" or "sweet" or "silky" as you hardly can snowboard in the summer sun of africa.

ribbons may be everything and even a bit dark, but punchy requires a bit more dry-/roughness.


EV N/D468 or RE27N/D
OktavaMod Mk-319
Sennheiser MD-421
Shure SM7

which is the most dry of these without having too much of brightness?

MD421 is one of the darkest contenders in you're list, followed by the SM7 followed by the EV stuff [some may argue its a toss up].

Dude, ribbons are the scary punchy! Don't knock em till you try em! I think you'd dig what they bring to the table.

[theblue1]

How can playing style not be pertinent?

I typically use my favorite condenser for finger picking and articulated flat picking -- but if I'm miking a guitarist doing a rhythmic or percussive strum, I'll reach for one of my SM57's, they pull out the percussive edge. '57's not right for much of what I do, but for a real rhythm part, the '57 can work pretty well for me.

Bottom line, try what you've got.

[Niv]

Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell

Dude, ribbons are the scary punchy! Don't knock em till you try em! I think you'd dig what they bring to the table.

cmon you just wanna make profit (which is ok but way out of focus here). ribbon is for vocals basically, or lush, complex stuff. not for simple percussive guitar. further i need something that won´t brake that easily by a chaotic and not such careful flow of working.

[Dog_Chao_Chao]

Originally Posted by Niv

ribbon is for vocals basically, or lush, complex stuff. .

hum, do you have ribbon mics???? Lets see, what do I use mine for:

Brass
Drums
Yes vocals
Percursion
Guitar Cabs
Bass Cabs
Acoustic guitar, I love my 84 here
Anything really

Niv, Im not selling anything here or trying to loby. From your description it really seems you should try a couple of ribbons. They are the best for a dark and heavy sound. I do have a couple of 421´s (the white ones) and although they do not sound that bad on acoustic guitar, I dont use them that much there. There are a million better choices, like oktavas, schoeps, km84´s and some ribbons. I would try a 92 ( for a lighter sound) or a 84 (for a really heavy and dark sound). Best luck

I also love my cmv563+m7 on acoustic.

And the preamp will also play a part.

[Birdi]

does it have to be just one mic??... what about a sennhiser 441 paired with a ribbon?

B

[leaper]

Hi Niv,
Words are maybe getting in the way of things here.
The way I see it is like this:
A guitar can be played in a non punchy way or a punchy way. the "punch" is down to the style of playing and the instrument.
Let's just say that a "punchy" mic is one that allows this punch to come through with minimal change.
You also want "dark".
If someone came to me in the studio with this request the FIRST mic I would choose to try would be Coles 4038.
That's a ribbon mic, BTW.....Sorry
Maybe the client would say "No..that's got no punch" Then I would understand that their understanding of the word is different to mine and be able to work from that point to select a different mic.
(I also predict that after 20 minutes of switching different mics we would come back to the Coles..)
I don't sell anything, BTW..except my soul..Satan is probably comparing it with a few other candidates for proximity effect and "darkness".

[gurubuzz]

Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell

MD421 is one of the darkest contenders

ahem... a 421 is not a contender it's a dynamic...


ha ha


Anyone tried the Rode K2. It has a very low noise so it can take buckets of gain.

and it is very dark sounding, may need a bit of mid range attenuation.

[Niv]

Originally Posted by leaper

A guitar can be played in a non punchy way or a punchy way. the "punch" is down to the style of playing and the instrument.
Let's just say that a "punchy" mic is one that allows this punch to come through with minimal change.

exactly.


and no, "dark" is the last point of it. i got things darkened with reverb. BUT it shouldn´t be bright for sure.


about the ribbons. i think what you´d consider punchy is something different, a smooth, elegant "punchiness" means more a big, frontstanding tone. thats not what i´m on about. i want a trashy, compact and dry punch which is not rounded at all. the acoustic guitar should become more an edgy stone than some stadium emperor with a rounded fist.


preamp btw is "dav bg u1", it conveys punchiness quite well as it does with smoother input. very dynamic little bastard.

[Blast9]

Any examples of other music that sounds like you are aiming for?

I always think of Copeland "Careful Now" as an example of "dry" "dark acoustic guitar - dunno what mic Aaron used but there is a thread about their album on GS somewhere.

[leaper]

A ribbon will only sound rounded when it's pushed up close to the sound source, BTW. If you have enough Pre amp gain on the DAV (greater than 60dB) you would be able to place the mic in a spot where it's exaggerated proximity effect doesn't sound like it's rounding the transient.
Anyway.. I'll shut up about ribbons.. you've obviously made your mind up about them.
Then..client says: "trashy, compact, dry punchy mic.. forget about the dark..and ribbons suck!"
I'd go for a 441. It's a dynamic and has an open high end and perhaps it would add something between 2 and 6 kHz that could be called trashy punch. He says "dry and compact" so one close mic is still a possibility.
Can't remember hearing a shure c606, so can't comment on how it sounds in comparison with the 441.. that's a Sennheiser.
Why don't you use the c606?

[Blast9]

C606 - if it is close enough, perhaps all you need is some corrective EQ?

[cowrange]

Seems like you've already made up your mind about not wanting ribbons, but I think an m160 a few inches off the 12th fret is dry dark and punchy. Beyond that it's how it's played and the guitar. Wouldn't choose a Taylor for these duties, maybe a jumbo Guild. Maybe try strumming with your fingers. My 2 cents.

[Keire]

use a 57 and 160...thats punchy and dry

[Niv]

Originally Posted by leaper

Then..client says: "trashy, compact, dry punchy mic.. forget about the dark..and ribbons suck!"
(...)
Why don't you use the c606?

never said ribbons do suck, they just don´t fit in here. no mic is universal when you need something special. true wisdom ribbons are cool for presence of vocals and balladesque acoustic play, as well as for rooming. some might use it for harder percussions, i wouldn´t. so what.

second i don´t want an open high, i would cut it nevertheless. therefore its not specifically about darkness, but explicitely against brightness (which means open high).


and the 606... as mentioned (again) it got the best sort of character, but it definately lacks a little bit in size and and a moderate bit in clarity/detail of the mids. you can´t bring that in or take that out with eq. its really just a 25$ mic, total underground.
anything else is perfect, highs and bottom, punch. its just something about weird perfection in a low end means.

[softwareguy]

When I think of punchy acoustics, I think of the old blues guys. They sounded punchy because they were used to sacrificing subtlety for volume when they played for people in roadhouses, usually without amplification or with very little. Leadbelly has punch for days.

So I would recommend:

Use heavy picks, flat or finger.

Pick at the point in the string where there is maximum punch.

If it's still not enough, try heavier strings, but try the picking stuff first because the strings can mess up your intonation.

I know you don't want to hear it, but yes, record it with a ribbon.

BTW, in a perfect world you would be playing this on an F-hole archtop or a good old Kay.

Hope these are helpful ideas. Best of luck with your quest.

[Newcleardaze]

Originally Posted by Niv

never said ribbons do suck, they just don´t fit in here. no mic is universal when you need something special. true wisdom ribbons are cool for presence of vocals and balladesque acoustic play, as well as for rooming. some might use it for harder percussions, i wouldn´t. so what.

Wow... you ask for help or at least opinions then rip some of the more knowledgable, nice and helpful people on Gearslutsz for trying to lend a hand. When a ribbon is put on an electric guitar cab, it helps bring out mucho punch and they really capture the depth as well. I don't know... maybe your idea of punch in a recordign sense is different than everyone elses. As Adam and others have said on here before, talking about all this is like dancing about architecture.
That being said, and along with Gurubuzz suggestion, I just finished an acoustic EP using a Rode K2 off the soundhole and NT5 off the neck (I'm a budget kinda guy, so what can I say.) The guitar was a Martin DXK2, which is one of Martin's cheaper composite body guitars that is a bit small, so the sound was soft and dark... almost to the point of dull. Anyway, the sound really cut through well with those 2 mics. It was both full, articulate, and with just a touch of compression the arpegiated parts sang beautifully and the strummed parts popped right out.

[Blast9]

Any audio examples Niv?

you could always try pointing the mic at the body of the guitar behind the bridge - that gives a warm rolled-off sound