Clicky Bass Drum

[tamakid1292]

Ive been trying alot of different mic positions but i cant get a real clicky sound out of my bass drum. i record alot of hardcore or hardrock and i really want the bass drums to be sticking through the mix.
I have a tama starclassic performer bass drum and i use a beta kick. So if anyone has any other ideas to try please help.

[xhavepatiencex]

What head are you using? I do alot of hardcore/punk stuff and use an evans eq4 tuned rather low on my 20" kick and it has more than enough attack. I don't need to do much if any eq'ing.

[tamakid1292]

i have a super kick 1
how do you mic it what mic?
do you have any click pads ect.?

[Mayor999]

Put your kick in mic right up inside on the beater head and the kick out mic outside to capture the low end.

You could also try taping a quarter to where the beater hits.

[KingDiamond]

A plastic beater, which will make more of a click sound than a felt beater.

Also what is the mic position? Usually if you stick the mic in the hole in the drumhead and angle it towards the area where the beater hits, then you'll capture more of the click sound.

[leebridges]

i think the beta is your problem. i always found that mic to be really boomy and not much attack.

i'm not sure what the popular kick mic is these days, but i like to use an ATM25. it has lots of punch and attack. if i need some extra love on the low end, i add a sub-kick.

[tamakid1292]

yea im starting to think about getting a akg d112 and maybe mic the inside with that and the out side with the beta

[Full Clip Audio]

I just finished doing a session today and got a perfect balance of click and low end out of a Beta 52! It was a really nice Gretsch 22" tuned fairly loosely. I took the front head off and shoved the 52 about 2/3 of the way in. The thing picks up so much low end that even close enough to get lots of click you get more bass than you need (this is fine with me because I can sculpt it and would always rather have to subtractively EQ).

On a side note regarding the Beta 52.......

The Beta 52 is amazing in how uncritical placement seems to be with a good kick drum. Most mics you have to fiddle with them and move them an inch at a time then angle them a few degrees at a time to find the perfect spot. Today while tracking, I got through 3 songs and happened to walk into the drum room for something. I looked down and to my shock the mic stand had slipped and the beta was resting on the little pillow at the bottom of the drum! I was shocked because we never heard it when tracking. I then went back and checked the recordings and it sounded virtually the same and still awesome!. I have never known a mic to do that!

[Renegade Prod]

Guys ???
The Audix D6 has so much click, beta52 can have a lot of boom, or punch dependent on position, but the D6 will usually always have click in it, especially when rammed up against the beaters skin.

[tamakid1292]

it truly is a great mic but it doesn't have enough attack i think it would work great with another mic to add low end.

[Renegade Prod]

I also prefer it a lot more off axis as it seems to be a lot clearer and present

[Full Clip Audio]

Hitting a 160VU always brings out the attack in a very unique and pleasing way.

[Beyersound]

Originally Posted by Full Clip Audio

Hitting a 160VU always brings out the attack in a very unique and pleasing way.

The 1176 will definitely do that also!

[John Suitcase]

Does your kick sound clicky in the room?

Tune the beater head as low as you can and still be able to play it, throw a blanket in there to keep it from ringing for too long. Tape a quarter to the head where your beater hits it. Mic it from inside, with the mic about 3" from the head. You might have to twist it off axis if you get too much air blast (sounds like distortion). Or try a windscreen. Throw a moving blanket over the kick, so the mic is inside and not much bleeds into it, then add loads of high eq (preferably with your preamp, as daw eq can get a little grainy when boosting highs)

But really, it's about getting the drum sounding clicky to start with, more than anything.

[Rednose]

Originally Posted by tamakid1292

yea im starting to think about getting a akg d112 and maybe mic the inside with that and the out side with the beta

D112 all the way for click kick drum.
And a sub kick outside is good.
Also, you can trigger later, but you don't want a boomy kick in double bass, it will sound like pooop.
good luck!

[benversluis]

I'm real into metal/hardcore myself, and when I want a clicky kick, I use a SM91 (lows) with a Beta 52 (beater). While mixing I usually bring out the better a little with some additive EQ.

I've used the Yamaha Sub-Kick a few times and haven't been real impressed with it.

[xhavepatiencex]

Originally Posted by tamakid1292

i have a super kick 1
how do you mic it what mic?
do you have any click pads ect.?

for a mic I use the sennheiser e602II, I normally only use the bass drum patch that comes with the heads.

[danbronson]

Inside the drum, pointed at or beside where the beater strikes the head. Use plastic or wood beaters. Make sure the drummer hits the kick hard. Compress with an attack of like 2 or 3 ms. If you aren't getting enough click after that, you are deaf to 4kHz.

Also, taping a quarter to the skin will destroy it pretty quickly. Not fun when the beater goes right through the kick drum halfway through the session. If you're going to go that route, use a credit card (or whatever card you don't mind smashing with a beater for a few hours).

[MarkRB]

If you are not averse to using samples you can layer a rim shot sample over the kick.

[dangoudie]

I find getting a decent click is also about carving out an unhealthy portion of the mids. I usually take out pretty much everything at about 350Hz with a wide-ish Q for hard rock. Also, get plenty of 10kHz in there too.

[dobz]

Yep A D6 is your friend for modern rock and metal!

But if you don't have one available don't be a pussy with your Eq some major boosting somewhere around 4k will help out. If you find when doing this you are introducing a lot of kit noise in the kick mic sample it before hand and then use your new sample.

Also look at your phase of your kick mic with your room mics and overheads. This may bring in a few little problems.

I also find that taking off the front skin helps with some kick drums.

Cheerio

[bgrotto]

When tracking:

Plastic-sided beater!! And tell that pussy drummer to actually HIT the drum....HARD and CONSISTENT! That's where the sound's coming from, dummy! (use those words exactly, then ask him if he wants to go down in history as the guy who died and will forever be known as the drummer that hit like a pussy. Hey, it worked on me!!)

D6 (or ATM25) inside - pre - EQ (boost 3k, 8k, and/or 10k, cut whatever mids the D6 actually forgot to attenuate) - dbx 160VU (the needle should barely be moving) - tape (or PT, whatever)

Don't forget to get a single hit sample of the kick you're recording.

When mixing: first, remember that sample you made? Add that in there, then compress again (I like Distressors, high pass the side chain, Dist 3), EQ some more (Neve preferred! add more top, if you need it), and boo yah. You have an unnaturally clicky kick drum sound.

Or, you could just get whatever kick sound you're capable of, and sound replace it altogether. That's what's going on with most modern (and many not-so-modern) hardcore and metal records that use that kick sound. Actually, while you're at it, you could replace the snare and toms, too. Ever listen to any of those recent Metalblade records...? Yow.

[Full Clip Audio]

Originally Posted by McGee

After it starts to hurt a bit, realise that a kick drum doesn't actually make a clicking sound, unless you're a retarded engineer (or Metallica).

Wow. That's one of the most ridiculous posts I have seen in a long time. I hope you are kidding.

[Full Clip Audio]

Originally Posted by McGee

No, I'm completely serious - get your head down there and yell "CLICK".

If you werent so busy being a smart ass you would see that I omitted that part of your post in my quote because it was obviously not meant to be taken seriously. The rest that I did quote is just as absurd yet something tells me you might be serious.

[Full Clip Audio]

Originally Posted by McGee

Whatever. Go ahead and discover all the high frquencies in the kick drum you want. Boost 10k, why not boost 16K? It's all gonna sound dumb.

First of all, kicks DO have a click. Anyone with ears made of anything but wood can hear that. Also, anyone who isnt a 'retarded engineer' (as you so nicely put it) knows how important the click is in a modern rock/metal recording. Since you seem to laugh at the idea of either I wonder which category that puts you in.


BTW... you really would have to be a retarded engineer to think that the click lived at 16K. Seriously.

[cowrange]

Clear Powerstroke 3 head with a falam patch. Plastic beater. Tune the kick just above wrinkle. Put a dense, but not too big pillow, inside touching both sides. One of those eq pads from evans is not the right thing. I find more dense pillows made of feathers or cut up a dense packing blanket bring a tighter more controlled sound without being dead. Next lay a some weight on the middle of the pillow. Like a couple bricks etc. This will drop the pitch of the drum even more and tighten the lowend. Stick a D6 in the middle inside the drum. Hit it like a man, this is the single more important thing. If you have an API pre, put a pad after the output and drive the pre into the red to add a bit more clipped snap. Just a touch. Add a couple db low shelf and a few db high shelf. Maybe dip a bit around 250.

[Chris]

I always found the D6 to sound really good, click and low end, the d112 to be boxy and mostly blah, too much mids, and the beta 52 to be all click and very little low end almost anywhere you put it (from right up on the beater to the hole on the head).

[chadly]

Originally Posted by cowrange

Clear Powerstroke 3 head with a falam patch. Plastic beater. Tune the kick just above wrinkle. Put a dense, but not too big pillow, inside touching both sides.

Sage advice. I concur.

A D6 is good advice too for this very specific application, but a B52 is a great, flexible kick mic.

To chime in with the others as well: Don't be afraid to EQ the $hit out of it. Or use samples 50/50.

[Renegade Prod]

Just leave the convo McGee since you know nothing about the subject, im a small time 18 year old engineer who gets a lot of clients asking me to reproduce the kick sounds of these A grade metal bands ... do you honestly think that thousands of engineers around the world are going to turn down bands because 'that doesn't sound like a real kick drum to me' ... dont be so petty and ridiculous, its all about how it sits in the final mix.

Stay out of these convo's, you wont see me in a hiphop thread penetrating the point that modern hip hop voices are slammed with autotune, just because 'it doesnt sound like its original source', what a joke ... its the industry get used to it ... this is the most immature place for genre bashing.


DUDE D6 FO SHO.

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by McGee

Whatever. Go ahead and discover all the high frquencies in the kick drum you want. Boost 10k, why not boost 16K? It's all gonna sound dumb.

I boost 10k, using the shelf of my 1084, which of course boosts 16k as well. And I make a pretty decent living recording, in addition to many other genres, heavy metal bands. If that's ridiculous or dumb to you, so be it. I'll keep cashing the checks I'm getting. Good luck out there.

Oh, and don't let your clients pick up on your bias. Otherwise, they won't be coming back.