[Advice] Best hardware box or plug-in for changing tempo (without changing pitch)?

AjD · 28th June 2008, 01:35 AM

What's the highest quality plug-in or hardware box that can do this? I'm hoping for the most natural and least chirpy/phasey sounding results.

My application: I've got a completely finished mix with a tempo that's a bit too slow. So I need to speed the tempo up without changing the pitch. I'm guessing I'll be compressing the length of the tune to about 90% of its current length.

I'm using an older version of Nuendo (v1.5), if that matters. It has a time stretch routine, but it's a bit too lo-fi for my taste. I'd consider any newer VST plug-ins, or I could get a dedicated hardware box, if such a thing exists.

Best,
Aj

rackdude · 28th June 2008, 02:04 AM

Well... I like the elastic audio inside Samplitude... I know newer nuendo has thise ability too but I don't know if its upgraded from the older version. In general, time stretch should just be avoided because it kind of ruins the sound. But, you might be able to try melodyne for this...

Chaellus · 28th June 2008, 02:22 AM

hmm i tryied many time strechers and i can say no matter how good it is you can only get awy with 10% of the speed before it starts turning into crap..so the idea is to just adjust a little bit and not rely on such a drastic change

uncle duncan · 28th June 2008, 03:10 AM

What about remixing into stems, and then importing into PTLE for Elastic Audio? I'm thinking stems might work better because there would be less complicated sound info for Elastic Audio to screw up. Not knowing exactly how it works, perhaps you'd want to slice the tune into little sections, so the stretching/shrinking would be done on snippets rather than the whole tune. PTLE is so cheap these days, you can get it with a Mbox for the price of a decent plugin.

DP has a form of elastic audio, and I've noticed it works better on less-complicated waveforms, which is why I thought 5 or 6 stems might be the way to go - drums, bass, wide-panned rhythm instruments, vocals, solos/fills. In the stems, you'd want to make sure phase-coherent material was not separated into different stems, since that's where Elastic Audio would have problems.

I just picked up PTLE for this very reason, but I haven't downloaded the 7.4 upgrade yet, so the Elastic Audio idea is all conjecture.

AlphaDingo · 28th June 2008, 03:42 AM

melodyne my good man. celemony_ :: News Check it out.

AjD · 28th June 2008, 04:09 AM

Good advice, everyone. Interesting idea with the stems... any one tried this with positive results? I could see it also going the other way - multiple passes of tempo changed stacked on top of each other sounding worse. But I'd guess that'd depend on the algorithm.

I'm going to check out Melodyne. I've been meaning to check it out.

Aj

gward · 28th June 2008, 06:19 AM

I have done this successfully with Wavelab's Dirac time stretching and have even had luck using a Akai S5000 on a whole mix once. What suprised me was in that particular instance the Akai beat Wavelab in quality. Others are right though, the is only so far you can take it before things start to get weird.

rwhitney · 28th June 2008, 08:07 AM

I can often get up to about 10% change without artifacts using Serato Pitch 'n time Pro. It dulls the sound just a little, though.

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28th June 2008, 01:35 AM	#1
AjD Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dexter/Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 221	[Advice] Best hardware box or plug-in for changing tempo (without changing pitch)? What's the highest quality plug-in or hardware box that can do this? I'm hoping for the most natural and least chirpy/phasey sounding results. My application: I've got a completely finished mix with a tempo that's a bit too slow. So I need to speed the tempo up without changing the pitch. I'm guessing I'll be compressing the length of the tune to about 90% of its current length. I'm using an older version of Nuendo (v1.5), if that matters. It has a time stretch routine, but it's a bit too lo-fi for my taste. I'd consider any newer VST plug-ins, or I could get a dedicated hardware box, if such a thing exists. Best, Aj __________________ "(People) believe that solutions emerge from judicious study of discernible reality. That's not the way the world works anymore. We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality - judiciously, as you will - we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, & that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.'' - Senior Bush advisor, NY Times, 10/17/04

28th June 2008, 02:04 AM	#2
rackdude Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 690	Well... I like the elastic audio inside Samplitude... I know newer nuendo has thise ability too but I don't know if its upgraded from the older version. In general, time stretch should just be avoided because it kind of ruins the sound. But, you might be able to try melodyne for this... __________________

28th June 2008, 03:10 AM	#4
uncle duncan Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,933	What about remixing into stems, and then importing into PTLE for Elastic Audio? I'm thinking stems might work better because there would be less complicated sound info for Elastic Audio to screw up. Not knowing exactly how it works, perhaps you'd want to slice the tune into little sections, so the stretching/shrinking would be done on snippets rather than the whole tune. PTLE is so cheap these days, you can get it with a Mbox for the price of a decent plugin. DP has a form of elastic audio, and I've noticed it works better on less-complicated waveforms, which is why I thought 5 or 6 stems might be the way to go - drums, bass, wide-panned rhythm instruments, vocals, solos/fills. In the stems, you'd want to make sure phase-coherent material was not separated into different stems, since that's where Elastic Audio would have problems. I just picked up PTLE for this very reason, but I haven't downloaded the 7.4 upgrade yet, so the Elastic Audio idea is all conjecture. __________________ "You're either with a native DAW, or you're with the terrorists." G.W. Busch Lite

28th June 2008, 03:42 AM	#5
AlphaDingo Gear addict Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 489	melodyne my good man. celemony_ :: News Check it out. __________________ I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to get at with your attempted chicken/egg/bowl of shit analogy. -The Blue 1

28th June 2008, 02:22 AM	#3
Chaellus Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, California Posts: 1,126	hmm i tryied many time strechers and i can say no matter how good it is you can only get awy with 10% of the speed before it starts turning into crap..so the idea is to just adjust a little bit and not rely on such a drastic change

28th June 2008, 04:09 AM	#6
AjD Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dexter/Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 221	Good advice, everyone. Interesting idea with the stems... any one tried this with positive results? I could see it also going the other way - multiple passes of tempo changed stacked on top of each other sounding worse. But I'd guess that'd depend on the algorithm. I'm going to check out Melodyne. I've been meaning to check it out. Aj __________________ "(People) believe that solutions emerge from judicious study of discernible reality. That's not the way the world works anymore. We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality - judiciously, as you will - we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, & that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.'' - Senior Bush advisor, NY Times, 10/17/04

28th June 2008, 06:19 AM	#7
gward Gear Head Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St Paul, MN Posts: 73	I have done this successfully with Wavelab's Dirac time stretching and have even had luck using a Akai S5000 on a whole mix once. What suprised me was in that particular instance the Akai beat Wavelab in quality. Others are right though, the is only so far you can take it before things start to get weird.

28th June 2008, 08:07 AM	#8
rwhitney Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Irvine, CA Posts: 884	I can often get up to about 10% change without artifacts using Serato Pitch 'n time Pro. It dulls the sound just a little, though. __________________ Ross Whitney (non-professional) rwhitney@uci.edu

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