Recommendations for recording piano and chamber music?

[mikehc]

I am a pianist and have a lovely Bosedorfer piano, in a room with a nice acoustic. I have family and friends who play (piano, violin, cello, clarinet, voice) - some professionally - and I would like to be able to make high-quality recordings of our music.

I appreciate that there's more to it than buying kit and that there'll be a long learning curve and a lot of trial and error!

But I'd be grateful for some suggestions for equipment to buy, with a budget of about GBP 2,500, with the aim of maximising the quality of recordings, specifically of piano and classical chamber music (with maybe some singing).

I write music professionally (using Sibelius and VSL) so I already have a small amount of kit - a couple of PCs with Audiophile 2496 soundcards, a Soundcraft Compact 10, a pair of Alesis M1 monitors, and a pair of Neumann KM184s. Some of this (probably a PC and the KM184s) could be brought into play for the recordings, but they don't have to.

From what I've read so far I understand that simple X/Y-type miking techniques can be quite effective for the kind of recording I have in mind, and I am thinking that this might let me maximise the quality of a smaller amount of gear, as opposed to using close-miking and needing a number of microphones, a decent mixer, etc.?

I'm assuming that I'll also need preamps (DAV BG1?), and a really good quality soundcard to go in the PC (suggestions?) - or some other means of actually capturing the recording?

I'd really appreciate any advice and recommendations.

[John Willett]

Hi Mike, welcome.

Piano is something I record a lot.

For a Bosendorfer Grand I would always use omnis.

Mostly I have used a pair of Sennheiser MKH 20, but my last recording was done with a pair of Neumann TLM 183-D (the 131 heads were not available then, bit I have them now and would probably use the 131 heads now).

But my next recording will be done with a pair of the new MKH 8020.

For chamber ensembles I mostly use an MS pair of MKH 30/40, but I am also getting a pair of MKH 8040 as an ORTF pair which are also suitable.

I normally record onto a dedicated digital recorder at 24/96 - currently a Fostex FR-2, but I am about to upgrade to a Nagra VI and, possibly, a Nagra LB as well.

You could get an MKH 8020 or 8040 stereo set and a recorder such as the FR-2 or the Tascam HD-P2 for about the £2,000 mark.

If you want quality and budget is tight - the MKH 8040 (cardioid) stereo set is the same price as the omnis and the frequency response goes lower than most other directional mics and is flat down to 30Hz to capture the bottom-end warmth of the piano (the omnis go down to about 10Hz, though).

I hope this helps.

[JEGG]

I would agree with John's suggestion that a decent dedicated hardware recorder is the way to go for you-not a computer. I think there are better and far more cost effective choices than the FR2, but nevertheless, you don't need to be messing around with computers and interfaces/sound cards. Your life will be much simpler, fun, and you'll do a whole lot more recording in many more places than going the computer route.

I would agree with John's mic choices, too. With the reminder that you can use an MS setup with an omni mid should you choose to record with MS technique. And using ORTF technique for chamber ensembles or even much larger forces. You could go a long way with one omni, one cardioid, and one figure 8 mic, but that's a bit of a digression.

There are many other mic choices that would produce excellent results, but it would be hard to go wrong with the Sennheisers.

[mikehc]

Many thanks, both of you.

"I think there are better and far more cost effective choices than the FR2" - Any specific suggestions that I should look at?

How would you rate KM184s for my purposes?

[BrettMorello]

Article Preview - Piano Recording

great article on recording piano, with sound samples. If you aren't a subscriber, even worth purchasing or getting your hands on a copy of the mag.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by mikehc

Many thanks, both of you.

"I think there are better and far more cost effective choices than the FR2" - Any specific suggestions that I should look at?

How would you rate KM184s for my purposes?

The FR-2 is good, the HD-P2 is slightly cheaper and also good. The FR-2LE is about half the price of the FR-2 and is similar quality.

The Nagra LB is about twice the price of the FR-2 and should be superb and equal (if not better) than the Sound Devices units.

I would not go for the mini portables around.

The Neumann KM 184 are OK for ensembles, but I would not use them for solo piano - the bottom end of the piano is lower than the 184 can go, really.

For top quality I would go for MKH 8040 and the Nagra LB - about £3,000 in the UK at a guess - and add the MKH 8020 later.

Keeping quality high and about £1,000 cheaper, get the FR-2LE or HD-P2 instead of the LB.

I hope this helps.

[mikehc]

Thanks, John.

Just for the sake of comparison ... I'm not sure I would have much need for a portable machine, and since the room containing the piano already has my desk and PCs (rackmounted in a soundproof cabinet), I'd like to consider options for a PC-based setup. Are there any PC interfaces / preamps (separate or combinations) that you'd suggest I should look at, for the purposes I described?

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by mikehc

Thanks, John.

Just for the sake of comparison ... I'm not sure I would have much need for a portable machine, and since the room containing the piano already has my desk and PCs (rackmounted in a soundproof cabinet), I'd like to consider options for a PC-based setup. Are there any PC interfaces / preamps (separate or combinations) that you'd suggest I should look at, for the purposes I described?

First choice - Prism Orpheus - second choice RME Fireface 400.

[jnorman]

Echo Audiofire 4 is a near perfect interface at an affordable price.
i do not recommend the km184s for ensemble work, as they can get quite thin at any distance, and they are a tad harsh to my ears. look for mics with as flat a response curve as you can afford. the akg c481s are wonderfully transparent and can be had for around $900 pair used - in the studio, i have found them almost interchangeable wiht my DPA 4011s. the 4011s, btw, are my top choice for this kind of work, though are quite expensive. schoeps cmc64s make an excellent ORTF pair for ensemble work, as do the senn mkh40s, gefell 295s, and josephson series 6. for more affordable options, consider the AT4051s or the beyer mc930s.

i have done an entire solo piano CD with a single pair of AT4051s that turned out marvelously (7'4" bosendorfer) - i had previsouly done a CD with this same piano and player using DPA 4011s, but this time the 4051s actually won the shootout. go figure...