Is it the Mix Engineers Role to Pitch Correct Vocals?

[Umlaaat]

I've got to do a mix thats FULL of pitchy vocals.
This needs WAY more time.. Is this something I'm responsible for.. or is it the producers job?

[steveschizoid]

Always a tough call. How much are you getting paid? How many people will hear the results? How much does your reputation ride on this? Are you good at fixing pitch issues quickly? Would this be worthwhile as a learning experience? Will anyone even appreciate your efforts? Can you actually get the producer's opinion?

[catastrophic]

Originally Posted by Umlaaat

I've got to do a mix thats FULL of pitchy vocals.
This needs WAY more time.. Is this something I'm responsible for.. or is it the producers job?

i'd say it's the singers job.

[H-Rezz]

Originally Posted by Umlaaat

I've got to do a mix thats FULL of pitchy vocals.
This needs WAY more time.. Is this something I'm responsible for.. or is it the producers job?

I think it's the producers job, the more time a mixer has to mix the better , he shouldn't be concerned with much outside that ! I'd go as far as saying if you are sending drums as augmentation(replacing) include a midi file of those just in case the mixer wants to use his own sample, this way he spends less time on this as well ....

[H-Rezz]

Originally Posted by catastrophic

i'd say it's the singers job.

Yes, but you don't alway's have good singers , and it's your job as a producer to deal with it or the label will find someone that will

[travisbrown]

It's the sort of thing you ask the producer about. It's his job to get the things to tape in a manner that is to the benefit of the project. If he wants things fixed in the mix, he should give you a brief, or be there for the mix.

Maybe he doesn't want pitch correction, maybe he does.

[Umlaaat]

well, this would be a god learrning experience for me.. would gte my melodyne chops up.. but thats the only positive thing I can see out of it.
I'm getting $300 to mix an avg to bad r&b song. I'm putting the work in as far as delays, verbs, shrt delay, short verbs, doubling, time shifting, listening, levels.. and I think thats all part of the mix eng. job.. but the pitchiness is KILLING me.

I've spent the whole day learning about melodyne studio (SICK app), reading about it.. and I think, as opposed to leaving it on auto pilot, i've got to go in and do some mutt lange tweaking.. which, bc its not my song, bc its not that good, bc i'im not getting paid enough.. i don't want to.

If it was major exposure, credits.. no question, I wouldn't even post this... but if its part of the job I guess i have to suck it up.

[lord_bunny]

pitch the vocals if thats what the genre requires and bill them for it, i find when everyone is amazed by the mix they won't hack on you for spending too much time on the details like the vocals. the devil is all in the details with mixing anyway, i know some rooms are expensive and you can't just sit and spend six hours on a song, but vocals for contemporary pop, rock etc are the most important.

i would enquire as to the tuning "style" that the producer prefers

[jfw3]

Originally Posted by Umlaaat

I've got to do a mix thats FULL of pitchy vocals.
This needs WAY more time.. Is this something I'm responsible for.. or is it the producers job?

Vocal tuning is a production decision.

I have a 1 page PDF file downloadable on my website that I ask all producers and artist to read and follow prior to sending me tracks to mix. One of the things is that all vocals are to be tuned to the satisfaction of the producer/artist.

I do this for 2 reasons.
1. I don't enjoy tuning vocals and it is very time consuming
2. Tuning vocals is very subjective

I also state very clearly, tuning vocals does not mean that you (producer) threw AutoTune on the vocal as an insert. PRINT all tuning. Period.

If there is a word or two that is a problem, I fix it. If the whole track has not been tuned, the producer gets a phone call, hopefully not on the day of the mix.

Bottom line, if a vocal is crap, decide to either fix it, have the producer fix it, or don't take the gig.


JFW

[turnstile]

There are people here in Los Angeles (and Im sure everywhere), that that's all they do is pitch and clean up. When the record is complete it's handed off to them and they "prep" the tracks for mixing. Some make extremely good money. Like with every craft the good ones have a 'style' to their work.

But to answer your question, I think it could be anyones task depending on the expectations/agreements of the label, band, or producer.

[Umlaaat]

Originally Posted by jfw3

Vocal tuning is a production decision.

I have a 1 page PDF file downloadable on my website that I ask all producers and artist to read and follow prior to sending me tracks to mix. One of the things is that all vocals are to be tuned to the satisfaction of the producer/artist.

I do this for 2 reasons.
1. I don't enjoy tuning vocals and it is very time consuming
2. Tuning vocals is very subjective

I also state very clearly, tuning vocals does not mean that you (producer) threw AutoTune on the vocal as an insert. PRINT all tuning. Period.

If there is a word or two that is a problem, I fix it. If the whole track has not been tuned, the producer gets a phone call, hopefully not on the day of the mix.

Bottom line, if a vocal is crap, decide to either fix it, have the producer fix it, or don't take the gig.


JFW

This is most definitely NOT a conscious decision. Singer cannot sing in key.
There were no aestheic decisions made to 'slightly bend a note here or there'... dude cannot sing.... but it shouldn't be MY responsibilty to cloean up this f ucking thing...

[chris carter]

It should be done before it gets to the mix engineer. That said, I never get songs that have been tuned and always have to do it myself. That's okay, because generally speaking I'm better at it than the tracking engineer or producer is. My job is to make the best mix I possibly can. If that means I have to do the tuning because someone else didn't, then I'll do it. I've also had to sing extra parts myself, add handclaps, rearrange parts, whatever, from time to time. A happy client is a client that comes back for more.

[joeq]

sending the mix engineer a track and expecting him to tune the vocals is like bringing your car in for a repair and expecting the mechanic the fill up the gas tank.

I will tune the vocals, but not at the negotiated price for a Mix. It's extra work, it gets extra pay.

[juniorhifikit]

Make it sound like a hit. Period.

If you think you'll be stepping on someone's toes by changing stuff, give it to them both ways. If you aren't willing to put in the effort to make it sound like a hit for the money they're offering, don't take the gig.

sending the mix engineer a track and expecting him to tune the vocals is like bringing your car in for a repair and expecting the mechanic the fill up the gas tank.

Some garages do that, and vacuum the interior. They get more money than JiffyLube.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by juniorhifikit

Some garages do that, and vacuum the interior. They get more money than JiffyLube.

And if you bring in a clean car with an already full tank you still pay a premium for their oil change. It's still more work = more pay- just with no ability to opt out. If you want to amortize luxury extras across your entire client base that's your business model, not a job description.

Charge enough and you can afford to hire session cats to replace all the shitty guitar playing, too. Hire a real singer. Replace the drummer. Most call that producing.

It's not a matter of not 'putting in the effort' - it's simply not what I call Mixing. I charge a flat rate per song and I am not going to stick it to the guys who have their shit together to pay for the work I have to do for the guys who don't. And I am not going to stick it to myself either.

If something comes in that needs more than mixing, its a renegotiation not an abdication.

[juniorhifikit]

Originally Posted by joeq

And if you bring in a clean car with an already full tank you still pay a premium for their oil change. It's still more work = more pay- just with no ability to opt out. If you want to amortize luxury extras across your entire client base that's your business model, not a job description.

Charge enough and you can afford to hire session cats to replace all the shitty guitar playing, too. Hire a real singer. Replace the drummer. Most call that producing.

It's not a matter of not 'putting in the effort' - it's simply not what I call Mixing. I charge a flat rate per song and I am not going to stick it to the guys who have their shit together to pay for the work I have to do for the guys who don't. And I am not going to stick it to myself either.

If something comes in that needs more than mixing, its a renegotiation not an abdication.

Jesus, people here are edgy!

Just listen to the song beforehand, estimate the job at hand, and charge accordingly. Who said anything about sticking it to the client...

[picksail]

I charge hourly to tune vocals.

It is not included in the mix.

I never take it upon myself to tune it. I get approval first. Every project is different. Every vocalist is different.

Sometimes it can be a bit difficult to tune the vocals without the vocalist present.
There may be a problem discerning the melody when they are performing crazy slurs.
In this case, it's very easy to begin "recreating" the melody and thus piss everyone off.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by juniorhifikit

Jesus, people here are edgy!

Just listen to the song beforehand, estimate the job at hand, and charge accordingly. Who said anything about sticking it to the client...

sorry, I was referring to those who "include" vocal tuning in their mix price. If vocal tuning is included, those who don't need it should get a discount.

[slaphappygarry]

The way i see it is, by correcting the vocals (and thus making them sound better) the singer will associate me with their great vocal tracks.

In all seriousness, I have had to 'tweak' parts in the past and had repeat custom thanks to "how great you made my vocals sound". This means that sometimes going that little extra mile has got me more cash down the line through other jobs.

If it is a real tragic job then obviously its going to be quicker to re-do the rough areas than to manipulate them but I see it as another simple process in the mix. If anything needs a real overhaul I let the client know other wise some light 'studio magic' never hurts anyone.

Garry

[skythemusic]

Performer's job. If you can't sing in pitch, or at least sound interesting out of pitch, you should go back to karaoke land. I don't care if "everyone is doing it". I have never pitch shifted a vocal and I never will. (and if everybody jumped off a bridge....)

[Sigma]

all this crap irks me and i have been getting shafted to a degree on what a mix "is"

this is what it ISN'T

pitch correcting vocals

copy and pasting parts

fixing timing errors

comping vocals, gtr parts etc

once any of these funtions need to be accomplished, the clock starts at an hourly rate

it's now going on my webpage so there is no misunderstanding..i think people try to take advantage of the great benifit of a "flat fee" mix and expect things that are NOT mixing to be included

[paultools]

Some of you will feel differently about your pitch/arrangement/production decisions once the song you transformed becomes a huge hit, and all you get for your contribution is a few bucks per hour.... and next thing you know, the "producers" are gonna assume that it's part of your job as an engineer. IT"S NOT!

[steveschizoid]

Originally Posted by skythemusic

Performer's job. If you can't sing in pitch, or at least sound interesting out of pitch, you should go back to karaoke land. I don't care if "everyone is doing it". I have never pitch shifted a vocal and I never will. (and if everybody jumped off a bridge....)

purists can be so boring

I could fix an entire "pitchy" song in the length of time it's taken to read this thread. And no one, not even skythemusic, would hear the manipulation.

I am not suggested we should screw ourselves; being able to fix stuff really quickly is a major plus for everyone, and the more you do it, the faster you get.

[slaphappygarry]

Originally Posted by steveschizoid

purists can be so boring

I could fix an entire "pitchy" song in the length of time it's taken to read this thread. And no one, not even skythemusic, would hear the manipulation.

I am not suggested we should screw ourselves; being able to fix stuff really quickly is a major plus for everyone, and the more you do it, the faster you get.

I totally agree.

We are, at the end of the day, trying to make the music sound as good as we can get it too with our (sometimes limited) box of tools.

Garry

[ITJ]

Originally Posted by Sigma

all this crap irks me and i have been getting shafted to a degree on what a mix "is"

this is what it ISN'T

pitch correcting vocals

copy and pasting parts

fixing timing errors

comping vocals, gtr parts etc

once any of these funtions need to be accomplished, the clock starts at an hourly rate

it's now going on my webpage so there is no misunderstanding..i think people try to take advantage of the great benifit of a "flat fee" mix and expect things that are NOT mixing to be included

Very well said!

[Jack Ruston]

I agree....the problem is that if you need to spend the first X hours fixing tuning and timing problems, it actually drains you mentally and creatively so that when you come to start the mix you're no longer excited and full the joys of your work.

I find the thing to do is to immediately call them and tell them it'll need another day, and then do all that stuff, sleep, and then come in the fresh and start mixing from the point at which the mix is supposed to start.

Of course it doesn't matter if it's just a couple of tiny bits here and there.

J

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by Jack Ruston

I agree....the problem is that if you need to spend the first X hours fixing tuning and timing problems, it actually drains you mentally and creatively so that when you come to start the mix you're no longer excited and full the joys of your work.

I find the thing to do is to immediately call them and tell them it'll need another day, and then do all that stuff, sleep, and then come in the fresh and start mixing from the point at which the mix is supposed to start.

Of course it doesn't matter if it's just a couple of tiny bits here and there.

J

agreed ..if you have the luxury mixing should be mixing only..the VERY worst is overdubs on mix day..they are either too loud ..too low or not the right part and need to be recut because no one had time to "sit ' with them

[peeder]

My job, at any point in the production of a song, unless directed otherwise, is to make it a hit by any means I have at my disposal.

[Kim Bjäle]

Originally Posted by juniorhifikit

Make it sound like a hit. Period.

If you think you'll be stepping on someone's toes by changing stuff, give it to them both ways. If you aren't willing to put in the effort to make it sound like a hit for the money they're offering, don't take the gig.



Some garages do that, and vacuum the interior. They get more money than JiffyLube.

But it depends. When I do work for major labels I follow the above but if it`s an arrangement or demo I don`t

[ARIEL]

Originally Posted by Umlaaat

I've got to do a mix thats FULL of pitchy vocals.
This needs WAY more time.. Is this something I'm responsible for.. or is it the producers job?

well if we compress vocals , and maybe put some cool filtering on parts or add chorus or flange , then slapping on auto tune would be part of the mix , guys if it takes you for ever to pitch correct vocals then 1 the singer cant sing - or your slow and have yet to learn how to do it effectivley - i was up and running with auto tune in 5 min - it should not take for ever and i don't even think about it - It is a part of mixing aND SUPER easy to use- I know other engineers that say it is'nt part of their job- well they are not dong it full time as a result because your clients will get mad if you dont put in the effort - i do and always will and hence i dont even have time to put up my own site or advertise cause i,m booked all this year - put in a good work ethic and care - it will pay off in the long run .