Best Amp for Heavy Guitar Tone

[crille]

For a brutal metal tone like Killswitch Engage (listen to their album "As Daylight Dies") you should buy a Framus Cobra!
Great amp, and the clean sound is great too.

[CapnMarvel]

Originally Posted by sonic dogg

The old Laney's are extreme in their low-end punch...As well as the small 50 watt Sound City head...this is midrange punch supere....as for a pedal....my guitarist recently went crazed and had all his pedals redone by Keeley......The best I've evr heard...

The Keeley redone Boss Metal Pedal....makes the stock one sound like a toy...

I second the Laney and the Sound City as being excellent amps for gobs of saturation. Also consider an Orange. I don't listen to the bands you've mentioned, but I really doubt a JCM800 is what you are going for, and the combo JCM800 is, oddly, really quite a disappointment tonally even over the head. Lots of people love their Mesa Boogie tones, too (myself excluded, but that's a matter of opinion). I play primarily a 50W Marshall JMP, but that's probably not where you need to head, either.

Maybe consider a Boogie combo in addition to your Mesa Boogie heads. Think James Hetfield tones. Bogner is also wonderful, but quite expensive.

Pedals really aren't where it's at for good, solid metal guitar tones. As was mentioned, you can use them to shape and add variation to your tone, but there's no substitute for good, old fashioned power amp tube saturation IMHO. A clean boost pedal might be a good start to push a tube amp over the edge into saturation. I also generally don't like 'drive' channels on amps, even tube amps (see above re: many Mesa Boogie products)

And, Keely or no, I'd rather gouge out an eyeball than play a Metal Zone pedal again.

[binsys]

Originally Posted by johnjm22

Wow, thanks for all the quick replies everone. One thing I've been wondering is do you guys recomend using any outbourd distortions? Like foot pedals. Or is it better to use the stock distortion of an amp?

Generally I find that stock distortions sound like shit. That would probably be a different story with a really high quality amp though.

I beg to differ with some above regarding pedals not delivering tone for recording. A vintage ProCo Rat or a vintage SansAmp Classic have some of the best tone (through a CLEAN amp channel) I have ever recorded. Both pedals have very versatile adjustments.

Strangely, try those through a Fender '65 Deluxe reissue - you might be surprised at how much 'AC/DC' sound comes out of that at moderate volume...

I have been playing and recording professionally for 40+ years, and I cannot tell a lie...

- h.

[CapnMarvel]

Originally Posted by binsys

I beg to differ with some above regarding pedals not delivering tone for recording. A vintage ProCo Rat or a vintage SansAmp Classic have some of the best tone (through a CLEAN amp channel) I have ever recorded. Both pedals have very versatile adjustments.

Strangely, try those through a Fender '65 Deluxe reissue - you might be surprised at how much 'AC/DC' sound comes out of that at moderate volume...

I have been playing and recording professionally for 40+ years, and I cannot tell a lie...

- h.

Hmm, yeah. I don't really like the results I get from a Rat (vintage or otherwise...my current Rat in the stable is a Beavis Audio FKR that I'm only holding onto because it was custom made for me) through my SF Twin, unlike, say a MXR Distortion III, which I find to be a great mid-heavy dirt pedal. Sansamps do sound good, though.

[crollbc]

hey steve that sounds really interesting...i like the idea of building an awesome distortion from the ground up using an already amazing clean fender amp.

what sort of ruby tubes did you get and how many etc? im trying to decide whether it would be worth assembling this rig coz but it will be a bit harder living in perth western australia. Also what do you mean by "make sure your head has been biased." haha sorry i dont know much about mods and that sort of thing...also would you recommend this amp for a live setting in relatively small venues?

Originally Posted by crypticglobe

Ok.... you will have to piece this together.... but... for INCREDIBLE heavy tone on a budget (and a great clean sound too).... do this:


1. Fender Bassman Head like this one. Around $275 if you shop. Add another $200 and get a blackface (65'-67') and get a better clean sound.

2. Mesa 2 x 12 Cabinet like this one. Around $350 if you shop.


3. And either a Mesa V-Twin Preamp Pedal, or my personal pick... a Robert Keeley Modded SD-1 Overdrive Pedal. $115.00


Put Ruby Tubes in your head (and Mesa Pedal if you get that one), and make sure your head has been biased.

Then... prepare to hold on to your shorts! This will knock you over! Plus... if you go the SD-1 route... (which I think sounds best) you are still under $800...... before you buy the tubes!


Frankly, I prefer a 4 x 12 cabinet (I have a Bogner 4 x 12 with 2 x V30's and G12H 30's in an X pattern)... but I was trying to stay under your budget, and the 2 x 12 does still sound really good. I also had my Silverface Bassman modded to blackface specs... but it still sounded incredible in this fashion before the mod. Now it's just mo'better.

I have some really nice amps. But this comibination consistently FLOORS guys that I work with that do heavy music. The low end is absolutely monstorous.... and translates well in the studio... I like the Royer 121 combined with a 421 or 57. The natural overdrive of the bassman cranked up very loud is quite good... but when you turn on the SD-1 for just a small bit of boost..... oh man.... it just get's nuts! I always set this rig up out of sight... so the heavy dudes can't see it.... and I just let them hear it first. This rig beats out my Bogner 101b, Marshall JCM 800, and Dual Rectifer 85% of the time in a blind test! Guys that DON'T like pedals.... LOVE this tone..... and SWEAR it's not a pedal until they see it! (The secret is Robert Keeley completely re-does the pedal and puts a Burr Brown Op Amp in it- it's INCREDIBLY quiet too).

Plus.... turn the thing up to about 5 with nothing in front of it... and you have a clean sound that will make you wanna cry! Get's even CRAZIER if you have an open back cabinet you can hook up to it. I am getting a Bogner 4x10 open back just for that... very soon.

[AstralPStudios]

Mesa dual or triple rec paired with a BBE sonic maximizer = bad ass bat
out of hell awesomesauce tone. That BBE really brings out everything
that amp can offer.

[EddieTheRed]

I'm sure it will have been mentioned earlier in the thread but the Tube Screamer can make a world of difference when you're going for a tight metal tone.

[AstralPStudios]

I haven't used a tubescreamer but I guarantee you the BBE probably
kills it.

[robertshaw]

Originally Posted by cdog

"I've heard good things about both the Peavy 5150, and the JCM 800....I only have about $1000 to spend..."

The JCM 800 is a solid amp, but somewhat limited tonally and you may need to modify it to get the heavy, thick sound you want. The 5150 I do not recommend as it has a nasal quality to the distortion thats cuts through live but doesn't work well for recording - you can mod it to some positive effect. If you want that compressed, hyper high gain sound, buy a Dual Rectifier - slightly less nasal and tighter bass.

Honestly, you probably want a used Bogner or VHT Pitbull... look on ebay. Less gain can be a good thing, it allows the dynamic and percussive aspects of the playing to come through...

Im a huge fan of 800 tone but just not heavy enough for rhythm gtrs
I love the 800 lead sound.

Ive been eyeing a 6505 based on advice from some gs'ers
pretty aggressive

[AstralPStudios]

Originally Posted by robertshaw

Im a huge fan of 800 tone but just not heavy enough for rhythm gtrs
I love the 800 lead sound.

Ive been eyeing a 6505 based on advice from some gs'ers
pretty aggressive

I've used the 6505 and I don't like it at all.

I don't think it's very aggressive either lol. Although
kreator makes em sound fuggin awesome. Can't lie about
that.

[Retinal]

Heavy guitar tone?

Easy: Hughes & Kettner Warp T Stack, when you press the "sub" button, you will know what I'm talking about.

Unfortunately is discontinued, but you can get the WarpX head, problem is you would also need the oversized cabinet that use to come with the WarpT.

[BLUElightCory]

I use a 6505 with a Tube Screamer all the time and it KILLS for heavy/metal guitar tones. In my opinion, heaviness is the only thing the 6505/5150 does well, but it does it REALLY well - just don't go nuts with the gain (I usually run it around 3) and experiment with the controls to get the clearest possible tone.

For $1000, you should be able to find a used 5150/6505 and a decent 4x12 cab, no problem.

[AstralPStudios]

If you want deep sound, Randall MTS series is where it's at. 90lbs of pure
bad assery lol. nice, smooth lows and very good representation of highs.

I wish all of you could try a sonic maximizer on your rigs, your balls would
go back into your stomach with one, then drop down again. Like being
reborn with guitar tone. lol

[HYPNOTIKINFEKTED]

Peavey JSX ..is a monster on 3

[Soundgeeza]

The Peavey JSX mentioned above is a phenomena (it's actually a shame it's got a Peavey logo on it) ... a stunning stunning amp!... I would highly suggest working with channel two for definition as (for me anyway), channel 3 is just way over the top.

As with most Peavey gear that I have come across, not great in the road-worthy stakes... but ohhh the tone!!!... I think it's got more cock in it than the rectum friers!

[Hotstuff]

Peavey 50150/6505.

Have been used in so many great albums, all the Machine Head Albums for example, most of the albums produced by Andy Sneap, also a lot of Colin Richardson,s productions use a Peavey. On the peavey remember to usually cut a lot of the mids and push that presence for the tone!
Older Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifiers are also good, not as fizzy as the newer ones.
Get a Tubescreamer and plug the guitar into it before the amp, you will tighten up the lo end and bring out more mids but it will also reveal a lot of detail so tight playing is very important.

Hotstuff

[Mike Douaire]

Haha I love this thread!

A lot of the norms being named out there. Many of them over his budget.

I use (both live and in the studio) my Genz-Benz El Diablo 100 Head (keep it switched on 50 watts, 100watts is just too loud).

I traded my Mesa Mark IV straight up for that thing. The amp is incredibly versatile w/ an active EQ - you can get any sound out of it you want.

Even though my recordings arent that good (before I upgraded much of my equipment), I did record my bands first EP in the basement - the guitar was miked up with a 57, i5, and an AKG perception 200 (blehhhhh).

Check out "A Silhouette Prayer" on our Kid Architect (NEW SONG POSTED!) on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos

Just using the amps distortion, dialed down from the settings I play live (to not muddy up too much) with my Double Fat Strat. You can get a heavier tone out of it, but that's not what our band goes for. I love my Genz Benz!

You can get the head for $800 or less used (just gotta search), and then a 2x12 from Marshall or something (depends how much is left over in the budget, I would say get the JCM 1960 2x12 and you can always replace the speakers later).

[shoetime]

I have been running an original Marshall JCM 800, (using the pre-amp direct out of the head to bypass the power amp on the Marshall) running it into an original Mesa 2:100 tube power amp, then from the 8 ohm out of the mesa into an 8 ohm 2X12 Framus cabinet. I've been recording the signal through the following chain : an sm 57 on axis (through an api 312), a Senni 421 (also through a 312) slightly off axis, and a Neumann U87 (through a focusrite isa 428) centered in the back of the amp room to pick up some depth. I sum all 3 tones (sometimes 4 if I use an Audix i5 ) into one mono track going into my converter. I have found this chain to be sure fire, every time. Anyone care to comment? Elaborate?

[rocksure]

Originally Posted by cdog

"I've heard good things about both the Peavy 5150, and the JCM 800....I only have about $1000 to spend..."

The JCM 800 is a solid amp, but somewhat limited tonally and you may need to modify it to get the heavy, thick sound you want. The 5150 I do not recommend as it has a nasal quality to the distortion thats cuts through live but doesn't work well for recording - you can mod it to some positive effect. If you want that compressed, hyper high gain sound, buy a Dual Rectifier - slightly less nasal and tighter bass.

...

I totally disagree that the 5150 doesn't record well. Many great recordings have been made with them ie: Van Halen, Satriani etc. If you want heavy guitar sounds they are great. It's harder to get really clean tones out of them, but it can be done. I have owned a combo for over 10 years and love it. I have no problem getting the tones I want from it. However, it is a bit of a "Hisser". I sometimes wish it were a bit quieter.
The JCM 800 is a nice amp too, and run in stereo with a 5150 you can get a nice blend. I have done that on occasssions. But on it's own the 5150 gives me the sound I want most often, and The Marshall doesn't quite do it for me most times.