What instruments do you prefer in the main room?

[Dave Martin]

In a typical studio environment with a main tracking room and several iso booths, do you prefer to put the drums in the room and the piano in an iso, or the piano in the room and the drums in an iso booth? Which benefits more from placement in the main room ?

[djui5]

To me it's dependant on the style of music and what kinda sound your after.

Say...if you're doing a pop record. I'd put the drums in the iso booth...for a tighter, more controlled sound. And stick the piano in the live room........utilizing mic's for natural reverb......setting the piano back in the mix a little....giving it some flavor.

Then again...if you're doing a different style...and don't want an upfront raw drum sound...say for country or rock....I'd put the drums in the live room.


All this assuming you have a nice sounding live room...


And........if I have my way about it....I'll track everything in the live room.....even the vocals.......I love the sound of live rooms in tracks...never been a fan of iso booths....

Unless it's a larger booth........I don't like the "Dead" really small one's....

[Drumsound]

I like room mics on the drums, so my vote is for drums in the big room. Of course my booth and other iso places (bathroom and hallway) aren't big enough for drums anyway.

[picksail]

In your room Dave, I think you would benefit by putting the drums in the iso booth. If space were not an issue I would opt for keeping them both in the main tracking room, but this could otherwise clutter that room of yours.

By the way, did you recently make a piano acquisition?

[DirkB]

Originally posted by Drumsound
I like room mics on the drums, so my vote is for drums in the big room. Of course my booth and other iso places (bathroom and hallway) aren't big enough for drums anyway.

I agree. There's something about a nice medium sized room recorded with one or two room mics that really makes drums sound like drums. You know, that sustain on the kick and toms that is never achieved with digital reverb and the hi-hat and cymbals being treated with real room pushing them back....

Ah, whish I had a bigger room, I love room on drums .

GReetings,
Dirk

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by picksail
In your room Dave, I think you would benefit by putting the drums in the iso booth. If space were not an issue I would opt for keeping them both in the main tracking room, but this could otherwise clutter that room of yours.

By the way, did you recently make a piano acquisition?

You know, it's not the clutter that I would mind - it's the bleed...

I haven't yet made the acquisition, Pick - but it looks like I'll be renting one for an upcoming jazz kinda project. So deciding where to put it before it gets here will make it easier when it gets here...

[Bob Olhsson]

They both benefit musically from being in the same room. One trick is to have the tail of the piano face the drums in order to minimize the amount of the sounding board picking up the drums. Up close, grand pianos can be pretty darn loud.

[RKrizman]

Originally posted by Dave Martin
In a typical studio environment with a main tracking room and several iso booths, do you prefer to put the drums in the room and the piano in an iso, or the piano in the room and the drums in an iso booth? Which benefits more from placement in the main room ?

I had to make this choice recently and decided to put the drums in the main room and the piano in the iso. This of course was the wrong decision and I paid for it dearly.

-R

[cajonezzz]

We made are large ISO with double doors to accommodate the C7. The ISO is 13x14 with not squared angles and a sloping ceiling from 10 to 16 ft.
I prefer to put Drums in the live room on rock and pop stuff and build a little gobo "room" around em to tighten things up if needed.

For this last straight ahead jazz session, we kept piano, trumpet (gobo'd) in the live room, and Drums in the big Iso (big Iso is also convertible with the use of 6 moveable mini traps and carpet.)
I thought it worked great. We do have sightlines through all the rooms so that helps.

We've also done Piano Iso'd and the rest of the band in the big room, with the small Iso's used as Amp closet's. I don't really dig the "build up" on piano in the Iso so much...but I haven't done that much recording of it in there.

Love to hear how your session works out!!

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by RKrizman
I had to make this choice recently and decided to put the drums in the main room and the piano in the iso. This of course was the wrong decision and I paid for it dearly.

-R

Of course. But if you'd put the drums in the iso and the piano in the main room, it would have been the wrong decision and you would have paid for it dearly...

[djui5]

I'd stick the piano in the main room..


I've known plenty of jazz guy's who have recorded drums in a smaller iso booth......not a lot bigger than the kit itself.....

If you really have to have that live room sound....try re-amping a copy of the kit through a pair of high end speakers in the live room later....

I know it's not the same as doing it in there the first time....but when you have restrictions...you have restrictions.

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by djui5

I've known plenty of jazz guy's who have recorded drums in a smaller iso booth......not a lot bigger than the kit itself.....

It's not really that the iso is that small (it's 9x14x11 and was built for a piano), but because of the studio layout, putting the piano in the iso would require using a different entrance door than putting it in the main room. So making this decision isn't just for aesthetics...

[djui5]

Originally posted by Dave Martin
It's not really that the iso is that small (it's 9x14x11 and was built for a piano), but because of the studio layout, putting the piano in the iso would require using a different entrance door than putting it in the main room. So making this decision isn't just for aesthetics...

Then put it wherever it would be easiest to load in...


Either room will suite either instrument well.......

I thought you were talking about a small booth..........jeesh.

[Jay Kahrs]

What needs the room tone more? The piano or the kit. Since it's a jazz date I'd try to stick everyone in your main room if possible.

And FWIW, I usually leave the bass amp in the same room as the drums and iso the guitar amps.

[henryrobinett]

FWIW my main bread and butter is jazz. But also FWIW I don't necessarily know what I'm talking about, BUT if the piano is the main focus or intrinsically important as it is in most jazz recordings I'd put the piano in the main room. Drums in jazz are primarily overheads though, but a close sound can be beneficial. Most jazz drummers don't have to pound hard to get the sound. Many do, I know. Jack DeJohnette springs to mind

I recently saw a photo from a Dave Holland session engineered by the preeminent James Farber. I think the studio was the Power Station. Drums were in a large iso booth. Bass was in a large iso booth. That's the way I like it with the bass. I hate the bleed factor. I like the clarity. That way I don't have to use the DI or compromise with the mic. Phase haze. Upright is such a remarkably beautiful sounding instrument. I hate compromising it.

[Sharp11]

I'm a composer/engineer who plays piano, so my piano is right in my control room area ready to go. I simply spin around and it's right there.

My piano, a Yamaha C5, (6',6") is recorded without the lid. The room is about 24' long by 16' wide. Sounds great, but the room is a bit dry with carpeted floors (and lots of Ethan Winer's excellent Real Traps).

My large room 30' by 12', widening out to 16' or so at one end is quite live with concrete floors and an open stairwell. My drum kit stays there where it sounds nice and bright ( a drum sound I prefer).

Pianos larger than about 6' 5" or so need decent sized spaces to perform in. You'll get swirling comb-filtering with a large piano, lid up, in a small space.

Here's a soap cue I wrote and played featuring the C5. It's closed mic'ed with two KM184's straight through the DMXR100's pre's into PT HD. Soft pedal down:

http://www.dzubak.com/mp3/shy_sky.mp3

Ed