How much do cables matter...?

[WATYF]

I've spent an @ssload of money on pres and mics and what not, but I've never really dumped a lot of money into getting "better" cables. So I wonder... how much do cables really matter? Will there be any appreciable difference if I upgrade my mic/routing cables from generic to "high-end"? Are the more expensive cables really any better, or is that just a lot of marketing and name recognition? Is the benefit simply that they have better build quality and are less prone to fall apart, or is there a sonic benefit as well?

When acquiring gear, I never thing about cabling... so is this something I should be looking into?

WATYF

[Diegel]

I've tested Mogami, Monster, Planet waves, Hosa and generic cables back to back. What I found:

Mogami - Perfect
Monster - muddy and woofy low end (sometimes could be a benefit to things like overheads or other harsh sources)
Planet waves - clean but lacking some fullness, sounds a little weak
Hosa - sounds like the signal is running through cardboard by comparison
generic - sounds like the signal is running through cardboard by comparison

Best way to know for yourself is to do what I did and just to have one of each cable and just record them (I tested them on vocals as it was very easy to hear the difference between each one) and listen blind and determine for yourself. When I had guys come over to record we even just listened through the monitors as we tried different cables on guitar and bass and everyone said the mogami's sounded best and it was pretty obvious. On the other hand I would recommend spending money (if need be) to get your room sounding as good as it can before cabling or even fancy mics or pres. I think the order of importance goes almost exactly in order of the recording chain. Something like this:

Performer + instrument -> Room -> Mic position -> Mic choice -> Preamp -> Converter -> Cable choice

[audiofrenia]

Good shielded cables ---> less interference and stronger signal.stike
...and probably will last longer too.

Signal weakness is usually a problem with longer cables, better cables dont "eat" the signal so much as the "cheaper" ones.

[Newcleardaze]

Last time I recorded keyboards, just for curiosities sake, I ran the Left out with a Monster Cable and the Right out with a cheaper cable (don't know the brand; it wasn't generic, but it was still a lesser quality than Monster). It was the same performance run through the same settings on the preamps. the Monster Cable was more clear, louder, and just all around better sounding. I was suprised at how much of a difference there actually is. My studio mic cables are now all Mogami.

[jmarkham]

They are a filter. Current, voltage and cable length will determine how
prominent the filter is.

I also like Mogami ... Monster .. I hate the company and they started
skimping on material quality.

I use Mogami's and try to keep the cable length to the mic pre as short
as possible.

jeff

[WATYF]

I'm assuming the snake quality is just as important. I have a 50 foot snake that I use to run everything to the control room. Wanted a shorter one, but if I remember correctly, 25 feet was just under what I needed, so I had to go with 50. Now if I can just remember what kind of snake it is.

Is there a good brand for snakes? I use a 12 channel with 4 - 1/4" returns. It has the combo XLR-1/4" connectors for the sends, which is handy, but I don't see that on many other snakes.

WATYF

[Diegel]

Originally Posted by WATYF

I'm assuming the snake quality is just as important. I have a 50 foot snake that I use to run everything to the control room. Wanted a shorter one, but if I remember correctly, 25 feet was just under what I needed, so I had to go with 50. Now if I can just remember what kind of snake it is.

Is there a good brand for snakes? I use a 12 channel with 4 - 1/4" returns. It has the combo XLR-1/4" connectors for the sends, which is handy, but I don't see that on many other snakes.

WATYF

I had wondered this myself. I wish Mogami made a snake box.

[WATYF]

I'm pretty sure that this is the snake I've got (in the 12 channel version).

Every once in a while I wonder how much sonic degradation my cabling is causing, but I'm usually too busy buying other gear. I mean, 95% of what I track goes through that snake... if it's a weak link, then all of my stuff suffers for it. Same with my choice of mic cables and 1/4".


WATYF

[Diegel]

I had the same decision as you when choosing a snake and I decided to not get a snake and just run 50 ft. individual mogami cables (tied together to keep them neat) where I needed to. I think it was definitely worth it. From personal experience and comparisons I think cables do have more than a significant effect on the sound that passes through them.

[Newcleardaze]

This is the place I've by my Mogami cables from anymore: great quality, great price: eBay Store - HOTWIRED CABLES: SNAKES - TRS: 35' MOGAMI 4 CHANNEL NEUTRIK 1 4 TRS AUDIO SNAKES

They have their own website as well, but this was the fast way for me to show who they are.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by WATYF

I've spent an @ssload of money on pres and mics and what not, but I've never really dumped a lot of money into getting "better" cables. So I wonder... how much do cables really matter? Will there be any appreciable difference if I upgrade my mic/routing cables from generic to "high-end"? Are the more expensive cables really any better, or is that just a lot of marketing and name recognition? Is the benefit simply that they have better build quality and are less prone to fall apart, or is there a sonic benefit as well?

When acquiring gear, I never thing about cabling... so is this something I should be looking into?

WATYF

[I don't even have to look down from the OP to know that this thread will soon be totally off the rails and into the netherworld of mysterious properties than defy any measure short of the purely metaphysical...]


An audio chain, like any other chain, is only as strong as its weakest link.

But the job of wire is very easy, compared to the jobs of other, more complex and sometimes less predictable electronic components.

I would say that buying good wire -- and the right wire for the job in terms of gauge/impedance/length -- makes good sense.

If one wants to spend something extra to assure himself that he's buying a high grade of wire, with good connectors, well-connected, that sounds entirely reasonable, too.


But if one is looking for measurable, significant differences in performance specifications in transmitting signal by making the jump from good wire to really expensive wire... I suspect he may well be disappointed if he either tests the respective cable choices with good test gear -- or, perhaps crucially, sets up a true, double blind subjective test for himself and others.

[ALL*MYTEE]

I'd say that cables are important. Not important enough to go crazy over, but important.

I use mostly Mogami but Canare and Gotham are good quality as well.

The best place that I've found for cables is Redco.com. They make custom cables for less than the retail packaged Mogami cables. They also make snakes. Excellent service, too. I recently got a pair of cables with the wrong ends (right angled TRS instead of straight TRS) and they fixed it promptly. No hassle.

[Kronos147]

Originally Posted by audiofrenia

better cables dont "eat" the signal so much as the "cheaper" ones.

Yeah, there is a 'skimming' effect that happens with good wire, bad wire resists the signal.

Originally Posted by ALL*MYTEE

I use mostly Mogami but Canare and Gotham are good quality as well.

The best place that I've found for cables is Redco.com. They make custom cables for less than the retail packaged Mogami cables.

+1 for Redco. My interfaces run through their cables to their DB-25 patchbay.

I have Canare running through the walls and I wish I had Mogami, but Canare is good.

Originally Posted by Diegel

What I found:

Mogami - Perfect
...Hosa - sounds like the signal is running through cardboard by comparison
generic - sounds like the signal is running through cardboard by comparison

I think the order of importance goes almost exactly in order of the recording chain. Something like this:

Performer + instrument -> Room -> Mic position -> Mic choice -> Preamp -> Converter -> Cable choice

I agree.

Originally Posted by Newcleardaze

My studio mic cables are now all Mogami.

I need to make some cables!

I am really lucky. I won an eBay auction of a lot of audio stuff. Included where 7 tt patchbays with Mogami snakes. I incorporated 4 of these into my new setup, 3 basically for the new console and 1 for all my pres and compressors.

Originally Posted by WATYF

I have a 50 foot snake that I use to run everything to the control room. Wanted a shorter one, but if I remember correctly, 25 feet was just under what I needed

Take a deep breath. Are you sitting down? Good. Cut the control room end. There, it's out there. Get yourself a patchbay and solder up. You'll be happy when it's done.

[Farshad]

After I switched to Mogami ( I was using generic cables before) there was a small BUT noticible difference. It gets more obvious when you have several tracks recorded wih quality cables (like pres).

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by theblue1

But if one is looking for measurable, significant differences in performance specifications in transmitting signal by making the jump from good wire to really expensive wire... I suspect he may well be disappointed if he either tests the respective cable choices with good test gear -- or, perhaps crucially, sets up a true, double blind subjective test for himself and others.

I addition to this, your perception will be partially influenced by the recording and playback devices. I mean mogami cable is great but if your recording though an RME or maudio A/D at 44.1 16 bit is it really gonna matter?aahhh NO

On the other side of the coin if you're using a cranesong hedd along with a guitar center brand cable are you selling yourself short? YES

So my point being if you have great converters pres etc... buy great cable if you use RME or maudio converters trust me save up for a good converter until then just use guitar center cables cuz you won't notice the difference. Even if you do notice the difference, that 22.5khz mp3 will erase any of that 'difference' when it's crankin' on myspace though those dell
speakers all your fans own.

[BlueSprocket]

Originally Posted by allencollins

I addition to this, your perception will be partially influenced by the recording and playback devices. I mean mogami cable is great but if your recording though an RME or maudio A/D at 44.1 16 bit is it really gonna matter?aahhh NO

On the other side of the coin if you're using a cranesong hedd along with a guitar center brand cable are you selling yourself short? YES

So my point being if you have great converters pres etc... buy great cable if you use RME or maudio converters trust me save up for a good converter until then just use guitar center cables cuz you won't notice the difference. Even if you do notice the difference, that 22.5khz mp3 will erase any of that 'difference' when it's crankin' on myspace though those dell
speakers all your fans own.

Strange. Why buy the cable twice? Buy a decent cable up front, and get the converter you can afford at the time. The extra $20 you'll spend on the nice cable upfront wont get a substantially better converter at the time. Why waste the $10 upfront on something that will ultimately sit in a bin after you've spent the money and gotten a nice converter?

Unless you're looking at cheap cables as an investment. You could conceivably argue that if you were to strip all your old cables and recycle the copper, the cheap cable is actually worth more in resale than it was in buying it. And then that cheap guitar center cable can become some cheap Romex that will carry that all important electrical signal to the outlets in your new studio that powers your expensive gear.

Inflation ROCKS!

[FLZapped]

Originally Posted by Kronos147

Yeah, there is a 'skimming' effect that happens with good wire, bad wire resists the signal.

I think you mean skin effect, which is the tendancy for signal to migrate toward the outside of the conductor as the frequency increases.

For microphone cables, this is a non-issue throughout the audio spectrum. It could become a bit of a concern at the upper most audio frequencies in speaker cables if they are large enough guage and long enough.

All wire exhibits this behavior.

-Bruce

[AllAboutTone]

Mogami on all mic cables. Monster for the guitars.

[druhms]

Hi Z is much more important than Low Z. I just recently became a believer in George L's for all of my Hi Z runs. For Low Z applications, any average cable, or better, will do fine.
Do some research on the Monster Cables. I'm sure there are plenty of great ears on here that will sum up the whole Monster Cable issue....although, there is power in good marketing.
Good luck.
Druhms

[Robobaby]

Originally Posted by FLZapped

I think you mean skin effect, which is the tendancy for signal to migrate toward the outside of the conductor as the frequency increases.

For microphone cables, this is a non-issue throughout the audio spectrum. It could become a bit of a concern at the upper most audio frequencies in speaker cables if they are large enough guage and long enough.

All wire exhibits this behavior.

-Bruce

To quote Lavry on the matter:

Regarding skin effect, yes there is such a thing, and those of us that worked in high speed electronics know that at low frequencies (such as audio) it does not matter, because the effect is so small. The most critical ears and measurements do not demand better then say .01dB flatness response, and skin effect on a 20AWG at audio (20KHz)over 50 feet is less then 0.0001dB into a 4 Ohm speaker. It is not even funny.