Help with Harmon mute

[Prickstein]

Hey Guys,
I'm a rock n roll mixer kinda guy and am just finishing up an album that features a lot of Harmon mute trumpet.
I'm the first to put my hand up and say I have no experience in mixing trumpet especially with the mute in.
Any suggestions how to tame the piercing quality of the instrument. Tried eqing out some of the nasties and tried Dave's C1 sidechain thing but it still rips my head off.
Any tricks I should be aware of?
Cheers,
Rick

[Extreme Mixing]

Turn it down. The peaks are a part of the sound. Most people mix harmon mute trumpet way too loud.

Steve

[JulianBrightnes]

..and use a ribbon mic. I often use my beyer M160, sounds GREAT!!!

Cheers JulianB

[Midlandmorgan]

We just used an SM7 for muted horns...works well...I thought.

[JulianBrightnes]

Nothing wrong with an sm57, but try a ribbon and you'll know what I mean. I'm talking about the harmon-mute as a solo instrument. Then it's really worth-while. Also is fantastic on acoustic guitar (though you have to gain a lot) and on violin, cello etc.

Cheers

[~ufo~]

Hey my buddy Julian decided to drop in!

Hi!

I'm still looking for some ribbons to try out on stuff like that, might go for some octavas.

anywho, when I track trumpet and the likes, the really dynamic kinda instruments, I tend to compress a good deal when tracking, cos in most pop and rock kinda things we don't need all that dynamic range. Tubes tend to soften their shrill sounds too.

but I take it you're done recording and need tips for mixing. dunno, depends on the tune, but a hefty amount of compression might be in order. If the peaks are giving you hassle you might want to mult it, if at all possible of course.

[Prickstein]

Yep, already recorded. Printing the mixes this weekend.
I think it's more an eq thing. Got the dynamics under control.
I've tried to pull out around the 6k and 12k area. Seems to get rid of some of the nasties but it just seems to makes the higher harmonics jump out more.
Maybe I'm just being too picky but the band sounds great, tracked live all in the same room and then the trumpet kicks in...
I used a Rode NTK. Could that be a part of the problem? I know they have a bit of a kick around 10k.

[Trp]

Hi, my 2 cents on trumpet:

Rode NTK is not a good choice for trumpet in my opinion. As mentioned before ribbons can be nice, but the most versatile mic for trumpet imo is Neumann TLM 170!

Now for EQing Harmon mute: the shrill normally is somewhere between 5-6 kHz. Also 9-10 kHz can be a bit nasty. You can compensate for too much of higher harmonics by dialing in somewhere around 280 Hz (that´s where I find the warmth of open trumpet, too), broad Q. Also, Harmon mutes have strong resonances between 1-2kHz (depending on the model) where you tend to find a lot of "tonal information" - opposed to the more noisy sound higher up. So boosting around there a bit might sometimes help, too. Different harmon mutes sound really different. For example Jo Ral is not as shrill as original Harmon.

Next time when using a LD for trumpet with harmon try putting it in omni, that smoothes it out a great deal. And experiment with different positions like the bell aiming a bit next to the capsule. The high frequencies come out very focussed in the middle, where as you can pick up the airy sound (that gives you that intimate feeling) pretty much everywhere. That way you also get less "Popp"-sounds from the player´s articulation.

I never use more than 2-3 dB GR on trumpet.

[Prickstein]

Cool
Thanks TRP, I'll give your suggestions a try.