What's more important... AD or DA?

[Markd102]

If you can only afford to get one at a time, what would you get first?

[natpub]

I presume you have inexpensive conversion now, and you are talking about upgrade to higher quality?

If so, I would get DA first, just to make sure of what you are hearing. Your AD may be doing a decent job, but you wont know for sure until you have a trustworthy DA.

Also, why not just get a 2 channel box that has AD/DA in it?

[Markd102]

I have the DIGI001 and a Mindprint DI-Port, which is only marginally better than the 001.

From what i read, I'm assuming that a quality DA will also "improve" the 001 AD though superior clocking?

[Jules]

Tough one isnt it?

How about this... if you are recording stuff that will be mixed elsewhere by someone else then there is a case for going for the best D/A first!

[Markd102]

All mixing done by me "in da box"

[Jules]

Then I vote for "hearing the box the best you can" - so a D/A being the first priority...

[LumenStudio]

Originally posted by Markd102
I have the DIGI001 and a Mindprint DI-Port, which is only marginally better than the 001.

From what i read, I'm assuming that a quality DA will also "improve" the 001 AD though superior clocking?

From all that I have read (although many will say otherwise), exterior clocks will not improve any convertor, unless that convertor is very poorly designed.

Check out Dan Lavry's forum on Prosoundweb if you want some of the techinicalities behind this.

[Curve Dominant]

I vote for quality A - D as being more important.

1) Get the best possible sound recorded. It will always be there.

2) Get the best possible mix of that audio with what you've got to work with.

3) then, send 24 bit files to a high quality mastering house...Or mix at a studio with pricey D - A's, monitors, acoustics, etc.

If you take the "modular" approach to production, this would make sense: As a recordist, get YOUR part right first. Then, take care of the rest later (IE: if the budget permits, and if it doesn't, it doesn't matter anyway).

[faeflora]

If you're doing most stuff in your daw then get yer DA.

[natpub]

Originally posted by LumenStudio
From all that I have read (although many will say otherwise), exterior clocks will not improve any convertor, unless that convertor is very poorly designed.

Check out Dan Lavry's forum on Prosoundweb if you want some of the techinicalities behind this.

Yup, that would be this one:

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/ind...1b776f840973a0

[natpub]

Originally posted by Curve Dominant
I vote for quality A - D as being more important.

1) Get the best possible sound recorded. It will always be there.

2) Get the best possible mix of that audio with what you've got to work with.

3) then, send 24 bit files to a high quality mastering house...Or mix at a studio with pricey D - A's, monitors, acoustics, etc.

If you take the "modular" approach to production, this would make sense: As a recordist, get YOUR part right first. Then, take care of the rest later (IE: if the budget permits, and if it doesn't, it doesn't matter anyway).

If you follow this line of reasoning, you will have no idea how good or bad the AD you are doing is, since your monitoring of it will be limited to filtering back at you via the nasty DA. Similarly, you will be tracking sounds you think are good, when in fact you may not be hearing accurately enough to tell. SO, you send your great AD traks off to a mastering or mixing shop, and the guy calls you and says the tracks sound like chopped liver. I would find this a problem.

I TRULY shared Curve's view for a long, long time. However, practical implimentation of that theory resulted in my current suggestions.

To be REALLY honest, I would probably suggest putting all that money into the room acoustics before ANYTHING :-) I have found that to be the single most intense factor in my tracking quality, and far outstrips any other factor. ALso, spend money on a few nice mics, and learn to move them around and experiment with that for a long long time. It really amazed me. These two things are so dang important to tracking it is sick. Pres, cable, outboard, conversion, etc., just is not in the same ballpark.

I know this is Gearslutz, but the most important things do not seem to involve acquiring lots of gear.


but that's just me thinking outloud

[Aearth]

Why don't u upgrade to a 002R and you'll get AD and DA improvement. The 002 is not bad especially for the $$$$.



Nick

[Markd102]

Originally posted by Aearth
Why don't u upgrade to a 002R and you'll get AD and DA improvement. The 002 is not bad especially for the $$$$.



Nick

I don't think the 002 is a big enough step up. Especially when you consider that it has been out for a while now and a 003 might be just around the corner. I'll wait for that before I upgrade my Digi hardware. (Unless the next version of PTLE comes out before that with a "must have" feature).

Also 90% of my tracking is done 1 or 2 channels at a time, so an upgrade over all inputs is not essential.

[kausionNOW]

Get yourself a Kurzweil KSP8 with adat card and you then have 4 A/D and 4 D/A. I used that setup for the longest time. I had the 4 A/D's on the overheads, kick and snare. I used the crappy motu converters for my ghost tracks and the toms. After drums are tracked, you have 4 A/D converters to use on whatever you want.

[Telecastr]

I'd go with D/A first. try a DAC1.

[RyanR]

First off all, IMO it would depend on what you're using for monitoring - meaning there's no point of adding great DA to a set of sub par monitors. So, before you get great DA, I would say make sure your monitors are good to go.

After that, if you do a lot of stuff ITB, I would choose the DA first. I was in the same situation and I picked the DA - it helped me hear what my plugins were (or weren't) doing to my tracks and it helped with making minor volume/pan adjustments in the mixing stage. Also, I wanted to be able to better hear the differences bewteen different pieces of gear when deciding what to buy - I think getting a good back end first has helped me make better decisions about front end (and plugin) purchases.

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally posted by natpub


To be REALLY honest, I would probably suggest putting all that money into the room acoustics before ANYTHING :-)

This wasn't the original question, and you may have a good room to begin with, but if that's not the case. I totally agree with natpub.. it's like sitting on your Ferrari in downtown traffic if you don't have the right room to track in or monitor. Any gear is completely worthless. But if you do, from my little experience I think a better D/A is what I would vote for to.

[Curve Dominant]

posted by natpub:

If you follow this line of reasoning, you will have no idea how good or bad the AD you are doing is, since your monitoring of it will be limited to filtering back at you via the nasty DA. Similarly, you will be tracking sounds you think are good, when in fact you may not be hearing accurately enough to tell. SO, you send your great AD traks off to a mastering or mixing shop, and the guy calls you and says the tracks sound like chopped liver. I would find this a problem.

natpub,

You make a lot of self-defeating assumptions with that response.

Most importantly, you assume you have no idea what you're hearing on your system. You SHOULD find that a problem. If you're listening to your mixes through even the cheapest D/A convertors manufactured in the past 5 years, and your tracks sound like "chopped liver," then, yeah brother. You definitely got a problem.

[natpub]

LOL, Eric, and you make a lot of assumptions about assumptions. I'll pass on the bait and let our respective opionions stand :-)

[M2E]

Just my little 2cent,

I really think you should get a A/D instead of a D/A first. Like Curve said. It would be better to get the best sound into your CPU first. Then no matter if you mix it at home or, at another studio or, if you later want to send it out to a pro mixer, at least you know that the material was recorded great. If your room is treated great and you have some great monitoring speakers then there's your D/A. Since you did say that your mixing is ITB. It doesn't matter what your D/A is because your not leaveing from your Digi001 outputs. Right?
So what's going in to the box I think would be much more important.
Now if you don't have your room treated or you have a so so monitoring system then maybe you should look at that first before thinking about buying either one. Trust me on this one.

Hope this helps...

M2E

[Jason Poulin]

that's a hard one!

If I had to choose, it would be AD.

You can always remix it after refferencing in your car and such.

As long as the source is there.


Although, ahhh I don't know... this is a hard one. You still have to hear the source properly as you capture it.

I still pick AD

Good Luck!

Jason

[faeflora]

Just sell a kidney and get both.

[Markd102]

ok, I've been looking at the Mytek units.
But for the price of one of them I can get an RME ADI-2 which will give me both AD and DA.
I realise that these are nowhere near the Myteks for quality, but keeping in mind that I only have a back yard project studio turning out not much better than demo quality recordings.... do you think that the RME would be a big enough step up from the 001 to satisfy me?

[Switchcraft]

I always prefer to improve the first leg of the chain and not the last. Like a a good mic before a good pre, a good pre before an AD, a good AD before a good DA. Although I did hear a huge improvement from monitoring my 001 thru my lavry, I heard even more of an improvement after stacking my 10 20 or 30 tracks thru my lavry first. that unit is modular so you wont be boxing yourself in. wait you said ITB/

[Exmun]

I'll vote off the majority and say A/D if you've got to choose one over the other. And by that choice, I'd get the very best A/D your money could buy. So, IMO, the RME ADI-thingy is out. Go Mytek, Lavry, Benchmark or one of the new Apogee's.

A lot of good points made about the importance of D/A, but to me it still comes down to the quality of the material recorded. Using midlevel or low level A/D's, the signal is compromised from the beginning. But everybody's got opinions.

[StoneinaPond]

The question comes down to this IMHO.

Is it better to monitor material poorly recorded with a sub-par AD converter, but you get to hear how poorly it was recorded with your first rate DA converter?

Or, is it better to capture your signals with a first rate AD converter and listen to it using sub-par DA converter, thus missing some of the detail in the program?

For capture only, it is a no brainer since you will hear more detail from a good AD even through shitty DAs.

However, for mixing and processing the question becomes a little trickier. Here you do want to hear what is going on, although with total recall in most DAWs, it means that certain decisions can be undone down the line.

If I absolutely had to choose, I think I would choose the first rate AD. At least you have as good as a recording as the crappy DAs will let you have.

Better to have both.

[zimv20]

fwiw

before upgrading my listening chain (now DAC-1 through Coleman m3ph), i probably would have said "a/d" first.

but now i'm all about hearing what i'm doing. i've gone back and remixed "finished" projects, and made many different decisions because of what i heard the second time 'round.

i vote "d/a" first.

[Plush]

Easy answer! It HAS TO BE the a/d!

The 1st. reason is: the source is always the most important

2nd. reason is: a high quality a/d will make sure that jitter is low in your original tracks. Imbedded jitter from cheapie a/d's is a major cause of digititis (treble-y bright sound)

Furthermore, this imbedded jitter can never be removed if the originating a/d puts it in there.

Spend the bulk of your money on a great a/d since you know that you only need $ 1000 for the d/a. (Benchmark)

[zimv20]

if i scale the positions to their extremes, i come up with this:

i can make better music w/ a 4-track and an sm57, if i have great monitoring, than i can w/ a neve desk and studer deck if i'm deaf.

i still vote d/a.

[macr0w]

Just go get an Apogee rosetta 200 and have a nice day.