I realized tonight, I suck at Equalization.

[Noize919]

You guys ever listened to a really really good mix and than get depressed? ....I had finished a mix tonight and was pretty happy about it, then popped in a band of similar genre only to have my emotions crushed.

I've narrowed it down to equalization as being trouble the spot for this particular mix (Heavier Rock)

I just cant carve out like the big guys do...

Right now I feel like my mixes are like a bunch of scrawny short people sitting shoulder to shoulder ( not fighting for space or anything, just sitting there ) ....while these other professional mixes are like a bunch of big tall people stretching their arms with all the space in the world.....

maybe I'm just losing my mind

[George Necola]

1. if you can, stop mixing for a week...
after clearing your mind (total recall baby)... check roomacoustics.. you can't EQ what is not there, or what is too much there.. so.. maybe give yourself a chance, and measure your room with behringer ECM8000.. .

mostly the diffrence is in roomacoustics (besides beeing not so good at mixing than the big guys)

2. monitorposition
big part of the acoustics.. by moving them around you can improve it, or make it more horrible, depending on your luck..

again if you measure your room, you know where the "hotspot" is in your room.


3. check the band and the tracking
it's not grooving like the famous band XY? the guitars get easily washy if you add presence or midrange? you have kinda chorus FX when 2 guitars play together? maybe your musicians suck.

I had this experience, when I got my first "pro"band to mix. they sent me in 4 guitartracks for each side, perfectly in rythm. drummer was playing tight, and with groove. Bass was great in timing with kick and the whole band...

I had to mix 2 hours, and at the end, they used another famous mixing guy, but I can say, that I was pretty close..maybe 2/3 years more exercise, and I am at the same level..

so.. I don't want to tell you, that I am a good mixingguy, or that you have to search the "guiltyness" on your musicians...

my point is:
check room
check placement of monitors
check your musicians

train your skills.. and then..

check your gear


cheers








oh and dont get depressed.. life's too short..

[Saudade]

hey don't be sad We all started out the same, and I know the feeling of realising how far off the mark you are.

To share my experience, the fact is you are not very far, not as far as you imagined. The last time I felt this I thought I would need at least 5 yrs to get anywhere close to that standard. But in less than 5 mths my mixes have improved by leaps and bounds.

I have GS to thank actually cos I read up a lot of the techniques people discuss and try them out myself. The most impt thing is to keep practicing. Go and mix your friends' projects for free. Sign up for mixing competitions like those in thewomb forums. Just keep reading and keep trying out techniques. Don't give up and keep your feet on the ground even when you've improved. There is so much to learn even when your mixes are already sounding pretty decent

[matt thomas]

concentrate on your techniques for eq-ing mids

highs and lows are relatively easy

also remember that often you need very little, if any, eq, it can be good practice to mix a track with no eq.

ignore presets, and standard suggestions (within reason), ignore what your dials say, trust your ears.

narco

[syra]

Originally Posted by Noize919

....I had finished a mix tonight and was pretty happy about it, then popped in a band of similar genre only to have my emotions crushed.

Thats your problem right there. Until you reach a certain level you can't pop your reference AFTER you're done mixing but DURING mixing. You have to check your reference multiples times and at different volumes. Don't just flip it for a sec...listen to it carefully. Pay attention to the details. Levels, panning, amount of effects and of course overall equalization. Thats how you learn. Also take 5 (10 if you were monitoring loud) minute breaks every hour.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by Noize919

You guys ever listened to a really really good mix and than get depressed? ....I had finished a mix tonight and was pretty happy about it, then popped in a band of similar genre only to have my emotions crushed.

I've narrowed it down to equalization as being trouble the spot for this particular mix (Heavier Rock)

I just cant carve out like the big guys do...

the title of your thread holds a clue to the solution. Saying you 'suck at equalization' is like a sculptor complaining "I suck at chiseling" or a painter saying "I need to work on my daubing"

Equalization is not something that stands alone as a technique, or some stage along the way before you 'move on' to automation . It's just a tool that you pick up and put down and pick it up again. It is just part of the process of wrestling the tracks to where they need to be. Keep wrestling.

Revisit your 'finished' mix.

But this time keep that reference track muted on a spare stereo channel of mix and check back with it a bunch of times during your mixing process, not after you are "done". You may learn things about how the big guys work, and even if you don't uncover any instant magic secrets, you will learn as you struggle to match sounds.

Whatever you do, don't get down on yourself and say you suck.

The solution to sucking is more practice, not depression.

[thethrillfactor]

Stay away from plug ins if you are mixing in the box.

If you are mixing out of the box only use plug ins for extreme or delicate fixes.

For all creative and additive sonic sculpting go analog.

[picksail]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Stay away from plug ins if you are mixing in the box.

If you are mixing out of the box only use plug ins for extreme or delicate fixes.

For all creative and additive sonic sculpting go analog.

Huh?

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by picksail

Huh?

Huh? right back at you.

[picksail]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Huh? right back at you.

Wah wah...

[George Necola]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Huh? right back at you.

Huh? *the computermoderator is shaking in his selfmade-obituary*

*throwing all plugins away and start real mixingcareer with analogue*

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by George Necola

Huh? *the computermoderator is shaking in his selfmade-obituary*

*throwing all plugins away and start real mixingcareer with analogue*

"When in Rome do as the Romans do".

[George Necola]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

"When in Rome do as the Romans do".

that includes massorgies and gay-sex if you refer to the old romans..

I am not into that.. I prefer analogue outbard on the 2 bus (summing) and analogue EQs/comp for tracking.

but thrill.. who am I to say whats wrong or right.. just my personal opinion.

cheers

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by George Necola

that includes massorgies and gay-sex if you refer to the old romans..

Hey no one died because of a good mass-orgy.

But heck if you are not into either there was always sex with animals!!!
(For all you Caligula fans!!!)

Originally Posted by George Necola

I am not into that.. I prefer analogue outbard on the 2 bus (summing) and analogue EQs/comp for tracking.

Same here.

I also like them on inserts in the mix as well. I just haven't heard a plug in EQ or compressor i can trust or like. They all make the audio worse to my ears.

Originally Posted by George Necola

but thrill.. who am I to say whats wrong or right.. just my personal opinion.

cheers

George same.

Cheers.

[macleodgrant]

you can do it with plugins 100% like many already do

one of the key things i learnt was to know the frequency range that instruments should occupy. for example i spent quite a while trying to make an electric guitar brightish but it would just get piercing. i eventually learnt i had to roll off quite a lot of the highs (down to about 3-4K) and then added an ambience/short reverb preset and added extra highs to that which worked wonders. you need to know how the real instruments are meant to sound so analyse them in your favourite record as much as you can

it's good to get frustrated because it drives you to keep on trying to get it right

[Noize919]

thanks guys...I'm here now a the studio this morning but I'm going to hold off mixing for another couple of hours.

I'll post my mix tonight if you guys care to hear.

Maybe I could post my reference as well and see what you guys think i should be doing.

[kooz]

Originally Posted by macleodgrant

it's good to get frustrated because it drives you to keep on trying to get it right

Indeed! Well said!
mix lots, teach yourself how to listen (how to use your ears), keep at it until every mix rocks...or it's effortless to pull it off.

[mikymike]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

They all make the audio worse to my ears.
George same.

Cheers.

My plugs actually make my mixes sound better!!! Just goes to show ya, one mans, floor is REALLY another mans ceiling.

[Sparks6505]

If you can, get your hands on a nice mix (as in not mastered yet) and use that as a reference. A lot of people get discouraged when they put their mixes up to slammin mastered cds when its really kind of apples and oranges. Maybe that would help or at least put you on a level playing field.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by Noize919

Right now I feel like my mixes are like a bunch of scrawny short people sitting shoulder to shoulder ( not fighting for space or anything, just sitting there )

if they're not fighting for space, and they're just sitting there, it sounds like you need to focus more on your compression and fader moves.

if you've ever sat next to an a-lister and watched him mix, you'd see him pumping and pushing faders like you never even dreamed of doing. then you'd look down the desk and see 40 other faders doing the same thing because he already automated those to do the same. and i'm not just talking about a little up here, then back down over there. i'm talking about faders moving fast and far, in time with the beat, pumping like the display on a spectrum analyzer.

the mixes you love are incredibly dynamic, and the more compression involved, the more those dynamics need to be re-created with faders.

keep at it, it gets better.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[Stitch333]

really good piece of advice given to me on the subject of eq:
1 cut is worth 1000 boosts.

Try a whole mix with only eq cuts.
This usually helps get me started in the right direction.

[Full Clip Audio]

Originally Posted by syra

Thats your problem right there. Until you reach a certain level you can't pop your reference AFTER you're done mixing but DURING mixing. You have to check your reference multiples times and at different volumes. Don't just flip it for a sec...listen to it carefully. Pay attention to the details. Levels, panning, amount of effects and of course overall equalization. Thats how you learn. Also take 5 (10 if you were monitoring loud) minute breaks every hour.

Exactly! Ialso find it helpful (especially when working in genres outside the norm) to put a multiband compressor on the master output of my track and then one on the reference track. I then put an RMS and peak meter after both and begin comparing them band by band. I solo the low on both and look at both the RMS and Peak before moving on to the next band. Breaking your mix down like this can REALLY help focus on what is different and where your issues are.

[Amun Ra]

Also, make sure you're listening at a decent level soundpressure-wise. At least 75-80 dB. Makes it a lot easier to hear what you are doing with eq. Keep working on it. Never give up.

[skatingbasser]

Originally Posted by Noize919

I've narrowed it down to equalization as being trouble the spot for this particular mix (Heavier Rock)

How have you narrowed it down to that?

How have you narrowed it down to your simply your mixing, for that matter?

[Kronos147]

Sometimes I find the EQ I do to an individual track solo'ed makes it sound like something I really was not going for (or want to hear) but I made the move in light of the whole mix. Once I un-solo it works.

To find the frequency I want to work with, I narrow the Q, crank up the gain, and sweep through the frequencies. If I hear anything that is nasally, hollow, too big, ugly, I cut it. I play with the amount of cut and the Q. Usually, I do this listening to the whole mix, but I do it in solo for problem children as well.

The frequencies I cut can also be used to create room for other instruments in the same frequency range.

Sometimes I pump some bass on kick and bass if I want/need. Shelves are good for this. I start around 110 and move from there.

Maybe some others will chime in with their techniques.

[Noize919]

I tracked in a small studio with an alright sounding control room monitoring through some Yamaha HS50's (i really hate those)

I'm mixing in a different studio on JBLLSR's

The instruments sound COMPLETELY different both pairs which is also giving me trouble.

I removed all plugs tonight and got a mix just with faders and panning...then parallel compressed my guitars and drums.

Hi passed the guitars at 200, added some fuzz to the bass...and that's it for now, the mix sounds like night and day. Still needs tweaking ofcourse, but im much happier about everything now!

I just really need to make sure i dont get knee deep in these exhausting type mixes...not good for me, not good for the mix, not good for the client.

[uncle duncan]

Sometimes you have to choose the important elements in the mix, and then sacrifice whatever is getting in the way. Years ago, JC Mellancamp said his engineer always starts the mix with the acoustic guitar, and builds everything around it, while others would start with kick, bass, and snare, and drop the acoustic guitar in later. By that time it's too late - there's no space left for the acoustic guitar.

Also, the idea that you have to EQ everything is bogus. Or that if you have four bands of EQ, you have to use each one.

It's all a matter of give and take. If everything's equal in the mix, nothing will stand out and catch the listener's ear.

[peeder]

I think you actually have great luck here. You know there's something wrong.

You can only get as good as you can tell you suck.

The worst place to be is thinking that you're perfect and you just can't do it any better.

[Sunim Koria]

The only time where I truly and substantially get better at something and hit the nail on the head with it is when I've realised the fact that I truly and substantially sucked at doing it in the first place.

SK

[James Meeker]

Based on what the OP said, and not having heard any examples, my guess that while EQ may be a factor but chances are there are more important issues at hand, namely the SIZE of your tracks.

Let's face it, EQ isn't really there to give size to a track--it is more about definition, reducing masking, eliminating clutter, giving elements their "home" so to speak.

Some suggestions:

1.) Be harder on your sounds before you hit record. Get BIG sounds happening in front of the mics and make sure they stay big throughout the entire chain.

2.) Gain staging is a factor when it comes to size. Make sure you are optimizing the sounds by hitting that preamp just right. Don't sacrifice clarity, get it in the zone. You'll know when you get there once you get the hang of it.

3.) I can't stress the importance of saturation for achieving 'big' sounds in my own work. Careful use of plugins like CraneSong Phoenix or Oxford Inflator can more than double the size of a track and add harmonic richness, texture and vibe. Learn how these tools can help you and how to get the most out of them.

4.) Likewise, compression and limiting can also beef up a sound in a mix by 'pegging' its level. Sometimes just tapping a sound by 1 db of gain reduction with a limiter can be what you need to get things happening.

5.) Also let's not forget the most important thing--balance level. The most critical and primary part of a mix are the volume levels and proportion of the elements. Honestly, one has no reason to grab for an EQ until you've gotten your balance levels and AGC perfected.

I'd explore these avenues before reaching for an EQ or doubting your abilities. Get these straight and you'll find out how obvious and simple EQ can be.

Hope this helps someone,