Need advise from people with experience recording bass...

[Gordon -10]

In my quest for good bass tone, I've discovered you can't buy small all tube bass heads new. They dont exsist. You may find a B15 on ebay, but its not cheap and rarly in Canada. So I'm resigned to the idea of getting a head with way more power then I need (which is maybe why they don't sell the smaller heads in the first place).
Anyway my issue is, I live in an apartment. I have a booth for recording my amps but it can only do so much. If I get something like a SVT-CL and can really only get the volumes knobs to 2-3 before its way to loud can I get a useful tone? Or should I hold out and hope a B15 turns up? I really have limited experience recording bass so any advice would be extremely helpful.

[kyle lee]

I hardly ever use a bass rig any more in recording...even if it's easily within reach. It's more about the gear in your chain that makes for great bass tone going to tape. A great bass amp will sound like crap through cheaper gear. You'll never get it to hold its own in a mix. My go-to chain is this:

Bass DI - Avalon DI, Germainium Pre, Distressor, Retro Stay-Level
Bass Amp - Avalon Parallel out, Vintage Sans Amp (with the knobs on the inside of the box), GTQ2 OR Neve 1066

Even without this much gear, I'm a believer in the sans amp when used correctly. ALWAYS combine this with the straight DI from the bass. Check your phase... If you've got a great sounding bass, you won't be dissapointed.

[Gordon -10]

I should also clarify, I'm doing acoustic stuff mainly. so I'm looking for that smooth lush low end, Nothing too punchy, like some of the Jack Johnson recordings, something that fills up the mix nicely. I have a U5 but I find on its own its a little too... I don't know stagnant, dry, something like that. I've been able to get good results using the U5 in conjunction with a small miced guitar amp, but its a little to rockish, midrangy. It just doesn't have the right character for acoustic stuff.

[dykstraster@gmai]

Originally Posted by Gordon -10

I should also clarify, I'm doing acoustic stuff mainly. so I'm looking for that smooth lush low end, Nothing too punchy, like some of the Jack Johnson recordings, something that fills up the mix nicely. I have a U5 but I find on its own its a little too... I don't know stagnant, dry, something like that. I've been able to get good results using the U5 in conjunction with a small miced guitar amp, but its a little to rockish, midrangy. It just doesn't have the right character for acoustic stuff.

try re-amping the di signal through your studio monitors/mic'ed.

[greatgreatriver]

I used to DI the bass - but now I'm recording fender jazz thorugh twin reverb and aea r84. It sounds beutiful!

[newyorkbrass]

Yeah DI is definitely the way to go with bass.... invest in a great bass...

[Eric Greedy]

Originally Posted by Gordon -10

I should also clarify, I'm doing acoustic stuff mainly. so I'm looking for that smooth lush low end, Nothing too punchy, like some of the Jack Johnson recordings, something that fills up the mix nicely. I have a U5 but I find on its own its a little too... I don't know stagnant, dry, something like that. I've been able to get good results using the U5 in conjunction with a small miced guitar amp, but its a little to rockish, midrangy. It just doesn't have the right character for acoustic stuff.

are you using flatwound strings? if your not... you should. Also rolll off the top end on your bass. You can get the sound your after with a DI if you do these two things...also...if you want bottom and not mids... a DI is going to get that as well or better than most if not all amps.

[Weasel9992]

Originally Posted by newyorkbrass

Yeah DI is definitely the way to go with bass.... invest in a great bass...

Great advice. I tend to split it with a DI then mic the amp as well, provided we're working with a good amp. If not then I'd rather go with a DI through a preamp I trust.

Frank

[kafka]

Flatwounds. DI. Roll off the tone knob. Compressor in the chain somewhere (either real or a plug-in). It's a formula that works. If you have a pretty special sounding bass amp, it might be worth the effort to figure out how to mic it. Otherwise, the above recipe is a little hard to beat.

[TheRealRoach]

You're not going to want an SVT-CL for your apartment. You don't get much tube saturation until you're around live-gig levels. I do really like the SVT-3PRO though for smaller/studio applications as it's got a tube preamp section, as well as a front panel preamp tube voltage knob which can produce some squishy sounds (mimicking a driven tube rig). Worth a try I'd say.

[Gordon -10]

Originally Posted by Eric Greedy

are you using flatwound strings? if your not... you should. Also rolll off the top end on your bass. You can get the sound your after with a DI if you do these two things...also...if you want bottom and not mids... a DI is going to get that as well or better than most if not all amps.

Flatwound... no there not, I'll have to get a set tonight and give it a shot. I've tried everything else mentioned and have come close, but there was always something a little different then what I was after. I just assumed it was the lack of amp. I read somewhere that JJ used a U5 with a B15 and that sent me on this tangent.

Thanks guys hopefully thats all I need, its certainly a much cheaper solution.

[lord_bunny]

I would say the gear that matters here is the bass and the preamps, and the person performing. Everything else you can kind of fudge. I've used NT2's and a fender deluxe reverb cranked, a 70's tube ampeg and modern ampeg cabinet with a 58... both on the same album and I can't tell any more which song had which. I can tell it was a p-bass with flatwounds and a pick though.

I do like using a d.i. and an amp. Currently I'm using an ac50 with an re20 and a skecthy yorkville d.i. and i'm happy with the results. when my friend comes by with his spector, it sounds like heaven... when the kid shows up with dead strings on his squire, it's hell.

i guess my point is, to me, there are no tricks. just get a good bass and a clean pre and you can dirt it up any number of passable ways before or after. if you want grit at the top and smooth round tone at the bottom, just use a small guitar amp and crank it up and take a d.i. for the rest.

[Full Clip Audio]

Go get yourself a Lil Freq and ditch the U5. I am fairly sure you will find exactly what has eluded you up to this point!

[dale116dot7]

Originally Posted by Gordon -10

I should also clarify, I'm doing acoustic stuff mainly. so I'm looking for that smooth lush low end, Nothing too punchy, like some of the Jack Johnson recordings, something that fills up the mix nicely.

I always find a big upright sits in acoustic music better, but that may not be an option for you, or maybe the sound doesn't work for you or the tunes. I mic an upright with an Altec Coke Bottle or a ribbon for that Bob Moore or Roy Husky Jr. sort of sound.

[audioez]

Originally Posted by Gordon -10

I really have limited experience recording bass so any advice would be extremely helpful.

Save your beans for a neve preamp, passive direct box...the rest will follow.

[sethmeister]

What brand and model bass?

[Gordon -10]

I have a Fender P bass.

[Daedalus77]

I can't remember who said it first—maybe Fletcher, maybe William Wittman—but I subscribe to the maxim that "Bass = Fender on the headstock and four strings."

The most successful bass tracks I've had—those that sit in the mix the best and were attained with the least sweat and greatest satisfaction—were recorded with a good, well set-up P-Bass or J-Bass (usually, though not always, American-made), with passive electronics in the bass, itself, through a good, passive D.I., into a high-end mic preamp.

Successful D.I. chains for me have been:
REDDI > API 512 (or BAE 312)
Radial JDI > above preamps
DI on Great River

I usually track through our MC77, though it's not doing too much. (Saving up for a Tube Tech CL1B for this purpose, in the future.)

I would say, additionally, that any talk of the signal chain of the bass is really irrelevant if the bass player (or songwriter or arranger) hasn't considered what specifically the bass should be doing in the arrangement. If the player doesn't understand (for most pop, rock, and country tracks), the necessity of sitting in the pocket with the kick drum, then it's not going to matter what tone you achieve, nor what magical compression settings you find.

When a player comes in with some six-string behemoth or a strange, pointy thing with five stages of active electronics, I know I'm going to have trouble somewhere in the process. I would note (while donning my flame suit) that these guys (and gals) are usually the ones who lack of clear sense of the bass's role in the song being recorded.

For what it's worth.

Best of luck.

[sethmeister]

Originally Posted by Gordon -10

I have a Fender P bass.

Good, that isn't the problem then. A good passive P bass usually sounds great direct.

What do you have for mic pres? I run my bass into a Great River with good results.

[dykstraster@gmai]

Originally Posted by Daedalus77

When a player comes in with some six-string behemoth or a strange, pointy thing with five stages of active electronics, I know I'm going to have trouble somewhere in the process. I would note (while donning my flame suit) that these guys (and gals) are usually the ones who lack of clear sense of the bass's role in the song being recorded.

For what it's worth.

Best of luck.

Agreed. Let me grab my hose... I'll help you ward off the inferno!

[johnnyjellybean]

My chain is P-Bass with EMGs>API 512C> API525. Deadly silent even when leaning up against the console and huge bottom with sustain forever thanks to the 525. I have had an Ampeg B15 for extended lengths of time here and was never able to get close to the same sound as I do direct. Combining the 2 was nice but I tend to like the cleaner sound when direct. The EMG's were a HUGE improvement and excel in the studio environment.

[mtlin]

If you're recording in an apartment, a little Princeton Reverb would be a great choice. You won't get much volume, but it will sound fantastic. You don't need a dedicated bass amp unless you need stage volume.

[Gordon -10]

Originally Posted by sethmeister

Good, that isn't the problem then. A good passive P bass usually sounds great direct.

What do you have for mic pres? I run my bass into a Great River with good results.

I have a Pendulum MDP-1, its my only pre at the moment... we I also have the U5 for a instruments. I've hooked them up various ways, some times just using the MDP, sometime just the U5 and some times both.

[kyle lee]

Originally Posted by Gordon -10

I should also clarify, I'm doing acoustic stuff mainly. so I'm looking for that smooth lush low end, Nothing too punchy, like some of the Jack Johnson recordings, something that fills up the mix nicely. I have a U5 but I find on its own its a little too... I don't know stagnant, dry, something like that. I've been able to get good results using the U5 in conjunction with a small miced guitar amp, but its a little to rockish, midrangy. It just doesn't have the right character for acoustic stuff.

Originally Posted by Gordon -10

I have a Fender P bass.

You need a passive Jazz. It's got much rounder low end than a P bass. Borrow, rent or buy a passive Jazz and run it through a Sadowski DI and then into an LA-610. Parrallel out of the Sadowski into a sans amp. That sans amp is the key I promise you. Mix it in about 50 percent and turn down the drive and presence a good bit. The two together will be stunning. But at the least, a Jazz should improve your situation quite a bit for this kind of music.

[noisetree]

P-bass is a great bass(no problem there).
I don´t have an Avalon U5 but sometimes I record with it in a few studios and
usualy sounds very nice.If you live in an apartment forgett amps.
Before you waist your money try simple solutions first.Flats on the P-bass and
try to play with the thumb muting the strings at the sametime.The P-bass is
great for that.Before gear comes the soul.Listen D´Angelo´s Voodoo album with
Pino Palladino.Great bass sound!For me it´s very important to listen music.
Anyway,I live in apartment too and now I decided to record my bass in my home studio.
My solution(and there´s a lot of solutions out there)is Sadowsky bass,a Sadowsky
DI,Daking preamp(use it for everything...love it with acoustic guitars)and Daw.But I only
buy gear if it will be profitable in the futur.
My best regards.
noisetree

[Kronos147]

If you record you Fender with a nice DI and you get a nice full tone, just re-amp later (or send files somewhere to be done).

I do sessions where every possible spot is taken and there just is no room for a bass amp. Later, I take the DI signal, run it into a GTQ2 and out the unbalanced out to the amp and run the track through it.

I record the '66 B-15 with an RE-20 through a custom tube pre or with the GTQ2. Sometimes a little nudging takes place to make the track line up with the DI better.

[Analogeezer]

I really prefer using a dedicated bass preamp in lieu of a direct box, as much as people like using the MP-2NV for bass, it doesn't do it for me like a Sansamp RBI or Ampeg bass pre does.

Lots of choices out there, new and used, on the low end look for an Ashly BP-41, I bought mine for $85 it's a little beat up but sounds great, Sansamp RBI works well and is available all over, several models of Ampegs around as well (SVP-Pro is what I have, SVP-CL is pretty cool too).

if you have a good player, and a decent preamp, just compress to taste if necessary and the tone is basically there.

I'll sometimes add a mic'd chain but then only to get more attitude and string rattle, if that sound is what your are after which it sounds like you are not.

Analogeezer

[ltemma74]

I'm in agreement with the general consensus - go direct and mix in a mic'ed amp for the best recorded tone. However, you live in an apartment and micing an SVT is not an option. 300 tube watts will get you evicted in a hurry, especially if you go searching for the sweet spot. In fact, micing pretty much anything in an apartment is likely to get you evicted.

I gig and record, so having a tube bass amp for gigs is important to me. I have an Ampeg V4B head. It's 100 tube watts and has fewer tubes than the SVT and is much lighter. You can get them on eBay for about $600 or so. Paired with an Ampeg Classic series 1x15, you will have a live rig that can hang pretty much anywhere and you can achieve tube saturation without blowing the rest of the band out of the water like an SVT. However, if you're in a really loud band with several big guitar amps, you may need the power of an SVT. But that's like stadium levels and very few of us need that kind of horsepower. So that covers live.

For apartment-level recording, I use a Palmer PDI-03 speaker simulator. That enables me to capture my amp's tone very well silently. If you split the signal and also get a direct feed using any of the better DI's out there (REDDI is awesome), add a good preamp (API, Neve Clone, etc.) and you will have PLENTY of killer bass tone to work with. If you can't make it work using this gear, then the problem is likely the performer or the engineer.

I suggest the Palmer speaker simulator as an alternative because the original poster seems to want a bass amp. It works for me! The V4B pairs well with both the P Bass and Jazz Bass. Plus, if you move into a space where you can be loud or want to go to a "real" studio to record, you have a kick ass all tube amp that you can mic for real.

[vernier]

I'd research Jack Johnson's bass player, interviews, etc ..and find out some things he's doing.
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