A&H Zed R16 Firewire Mixer

[tubeydude]

looks like they have already updated the drivers...

What's the latest?

[Fireside Studio]

Here's a thread I found where a reviewer was given a Zed R16 to review and he experienced quite a few snaps, crackles and pops, which at first seemed to be due to a faulty firewire connection at the mixer, but even after this was resolved (possibly), there were still problems which might have hinted at driver problems:

DICE II Firewire Driver Settings - rec.audio.pro | Google Groups

It's a long thread with no clear conclusion yet, but has anyone else experienced crackles, etc. with the Zed R16? Or for that matter, faulty firewire connections?

[sparkyness]

As mentioned in my earlier post, I was having major driver issues when I had the unit running in XP64 - clicks & pops. However, I have had no issues at all for the best part of a week since I've been running it in XP32. I haven't thrown anything too intense at yet with loads of plugins running but it's been fine on the drum mixes I've tested it with.

I emailed Mike and the lads at A&H re: my issues and they are listening and are apparently looking into the driver issues. There is a pretty simple fix for those boards with a firewire connector issue but my unit doesn't appear to have that problem.

[Fireside Studio]

Sparkyness, you reported that you were favorably impressed with the sound of the converters in the Zed R16, but how did it compare to the Fireface 400 you replaced it with? Any side by side comparisons you'd care to post for the rest of us very interested in this desk?

Also, consistent throughput is a major concern for live recording, which is one of my intents for this unit. Have you had a chance to record on 16 channels for any length of time, and if so, were there any dropouts or breaks?

[sparkyness]

Originally Posted by Fireside Studio

Sparkyness, you reported that you were favorably impressed with the sound of the converters in the Zed R16, but how did it compare to the Fireface 400 you replaced it with? Any side by side comparisons you'd care to post for the rest of us very interested in this desk?

Also, consistent throughput is a major concern for live recording, which is one of my intents for this unit. Have you had a chance to record on 16 channels for any length of time, and if so, were there any dropouts or breaks?

Haven't done any formal A/B's on the unit yet with full mixes between the A&H and the RME. My comments were based on playback of some reference tracks and recording some test bass tracks. I could hear the difference in the top end straight away. I'm no expert on converters other than use of my ears and it could be simply whatever mojo this thing imparts on the audio rather than the converters, but I liked it compared to what I was used to hearing on the same tracks through my trusty FF400. If I get some time in the next few days to do some more experimenting I'll dig into it.

Re: recording multiple channels. I've only tested recording with 7 consecutive channels thus far and the unit didn't break a sweat in the 20 minutes I had it running on that test recording. I don't think there'd be issues with all 16 going at once. I need to track some live gigs early next year and I don't get the feeling I'll have any issues as it feels like there's headroom for days on the firewire bus as (aside from when running XP64) the unit hasn't farted on me once. Not a single dropout, click or pop. During the test the ASIO meter in Cubase 4 was sitting at 10-15% the whole time with the buffer setting is at 128. Those results are consistent with my FF400 so I'm pleased thus far.

[lukejs]

I have an Allen and Heath GS3000 recording console and I really like the Eq and pres.... From what A & H say, the EQ and pres in the ZED-R16 are WAY better than my console, so I can only imagine how great this console must sound.. (I may stop imagining... and just go buy it !!!) How is the DAW control ?

[Phaidon]

Originally Posted by Saudade

- Zed-R would only go max. 24 channels. Larger frame sizes won't sell well because it is not needed by project studios, those needing more channels would probably be going for more "boutique" brands.

- 100mm faders won't be likely because Zed-R is targeted at DAW-analog mixer integration, and most DAW users will do the automation itb...

- REcall and basic automation: again can be done in DAW. Don't think they would (or should) spend the $ to include some half-manual recall schemes like those in the Neve 8816. Those who needs serious automation/recall on the board will be looking at bigger frames sizes and upmarket brands/digital consoles

+1

32ch/48ch will be overkill for A&H as the market stands right now.

Also why bother with automation and recall-ability on this day/DAW age?

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by Phaidon

Also why bother with automation and recall-ability on this day/DAW age?

Because there's still quite a few people that don't mix 100% ITB. There's still quite a few things you simply can't do in the DAW without doing tons of A/D/A conversions. Parallel compression with outboard is still a bitch in the DAW. The automatic delay compensation that almost works good enough to forget about. Tactile control on just about any analog mixer is 100 times better than just about any DAW controller, with the exception of maybe the Icon......how much is the Icon again????? Oh yeah, and even after all the $$$ with the Icon you'll still be doing A/D/A conversions all over the place if you keep it 100% ITB using outboard gear.

It's both exciting and frustrating because it's getting soooo close to "getting there" in terms of the hybrid studio.

[computa]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

Because there's still quite a few people that don't mix 100% ITB. There's still quite a few things you simply can't do in the DAW without doing tons of A/D/A conversions. Parallel compression with outboard is still a bitch in the DAW. The automatic delay compensation that almost works good enough to forget about. Tactile control on just about any analog mixer is 100 times better than just about any DAW controller, with the exception of maybe the Icon......how much is the Icon again????? Oh yeah, and even after all the $$$ with the Icon you'll still be doing A/D/A conversions all over the place if you keep it 100% ITB using outboard gear.

It's both exciting and frustrating because it's getting soooo close to "getting there" in terms of the hybrid studio.

wouldnt price for that will be high ala ssl matrix?

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by computa

wouldnt price for that will be high ala ssl matrix?

I don't believe it has to be. It would definatly add cost, and I could see the analog automation and recall only being available on switches and buttons, but not faders and aux sends. The SC Ghost has MIDI mute automation, why couldn't you also add aux on/off, insert on/off, bussing, etc.

If you took the cost of a Mackie Universal + Extender that's roughly $2K. Now add in the price of the Zed-R. Now we're at roughly $5K. Now add in 8 busses to Zed-R.....$?, now add in some more virtual encoders on each of the channels of the Mackie (dedicated pan knob + 2 virtual encoders for aux sends or plugin control. The novation nocturn has 9 knobs and costs $150. It could be done for $7K - $8K for a 16 channel unit master unit, built in an in-line design I'm sure. With 8 channel add-on buckets for $3K.

[lukejs]

Here it is.... This is what allen and heath should do... The GS3000 had midi mute automation... Imagine if you took the 24 channel with meterbridge... add 24 moving faders and some daw control buttons and knobs ( one section could me a channel strip just for the DAW....i.e.... EQ and compressor, and Aux sends just for you daw channel you've selected... ) add 24 ADDA converters with USB3 ( which I assume will be out pretty soon ) Oops...forgot... the GS3000 has dual inline faders...so you can use those for the analog path, and the other ones...the big one's could be automated (they're the 100 mm ones ) .. and to top it all off..... keep the two tube stages ( new and improved tube pre amps that are patchable to any channel or the main mix )..... NOW....you've got "da bomb" !!!

[computa]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

I don't believe it has to be. It would definatly add cost, and I could see the analog automation and recall only being available on switches and buttons, but not faders and aux sends. The SC Ghost has MIDI mute automation, why couldn't you also add aux on/off, insert on/off, bussing, etc.

If you took the cost of a Mackie Universal + Extender that's roughly $2K. Now add in the price of the Zed-R. Now we're at roughly $5K. Now add in 8 busses to Zed-R.....$?, now add in some more virtual encoders on each of the channels of the Mackie (dedicated pan knob + 2 virtual encoders for aux sends or plugin control. The novation nocturn has 9 knobs and costs $150. It could be done for $7K - $8K for a 16 channel unit master unit, built in an in-line design I'm sure. With 8 channel add-on buckets for $3K.

IMHO dont think folks will pay $8k for mackie/ZED/Novation quality & rudimentary implementation.

[Phaidon]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

Because there's still quite a few people that don't mix 100% ITB.
.

That's cool but then we are not talking about a hybrid design.
Don't forget that the Zed R-16 is designed for computer people,right??

[Phaidon]

Originally Posted by computa

IMHO dont think folks will pay $8k for mackie/ZED/Novation quality & rudimentary implementation.

Yes,no doubt about it:it's a whole different ballgame.

[tubeydude]

So how is the conversion on this thing?
It sounds like the pre's are nice. Has anyone done a recording layering the pres? How do they sound in a dense mix?

I gather the stability is not there for XP x64. Not a worry for me as I'm on XP x32.

How's the control over DAW's?

[computa]

there has yet to be a decent fully working low latency "analog mixer to firewire" solution yet. Its like mixer companies dabbling in the soundcard game ala mackie onyx. even lexicon (fx) doesnt work flawlessly. Maybe a&h can fix the issue. I would connect thru adat w/ a stable tried & true soundcard. I'm also not a fan of firewire anything.

[sirthought]

Originally Posted by computa

there has yet to be a decent fully working low latency "analog mixer to firewire" solution yet. Its like mixer companies dabbling in the soundcard game ala mackie onyx. even lexicon (fx) doesnt work flawlessly. Maybe a&h can fix the issue. I would connect thru adat w/ a stable tried & true soundcard. I'm also not a fan of firewire anything.

I understand your concern, but many people seem to make it work for them.

Say you do it as you've suggested with the ZED R16...Can you use the controller features when doing this?

[roc]

Allen & Heath, if your still out there what about a meter bridge ?

We need more metering - We need more metering
We need more metering - We need more metering


Great mixer by the way !

[AlienHealth]

Adding a meter bridge is tricky for ZED-R16 due to several reasons, I think we'll have to reserve it for the larger model , possibly as an option.

Regarding the question about DAW control when ADAT is being used: Yes you can use MIDI, either from the FireWire connection (the FW bus still carries MIDI when ZED-R16 is set to ADAT mode) or the MIDI out socket.
Then it depends on your DAW to to have the ability to map or learn the MIDI control, although the transport MMC should be universally recognised.

Cheers,
Mike.

[roc]

Thanks for quick reply very cool
I have a Xone 3d so i know you guys have first class metering .
The Zed r16 looks to be just right for me. (untill the larger one with meter bridge
option hopefully) I just love the jumping lights !

Keep up the good work thanks.

[roc]

Originally Posted by AlienHealth

Adding a meter bridge is tricky for ZED-R16 due to several reasons, I think we'll have to reserve it for the larger model , possibly as an option.

Regarding the question about DAW control when ADAT is being used: Yes you can use MIDI, either from the FireWire connection (the FW bus still carries MIDI when ZED-R16 is set to ADAT mode) or the MIDI out socket.
Then it depends on your DAW to to have the ability to map or learn the MIDI control, although the transport MMC should be universally recognised.

Cheers,
Mike.

Allen & Health if your still here can we get a midi map for Logic Studio that would be cool. Also will there be a flight case, that would also be cool.

[fez]

Hey,

A friend of mine is very interested in this ZED mixer and a nice recording mixer it is. Although he was curious about some other possible product. Is there any chance that some analog-only R8/16/24/ will be released? That friend of mine do not need all the digital possibilities. He currently has the Soundcraft Ghost mixer.

To my knowledge there is not one single mixer in this price range who has all these options. Especially the full parametric EQ is the thing we talk about. All the goods for under the 3K, nice!

So. Will there be some analog-only version of the ZED with full parametric EQ? And while we are busy. Can there be some meterbridge added along the way?

Thanks!

[trock]

well my yamaha hybrid, analog/digital FW front end console gets 3ms of latency at 128

and is solid as a rock, and sounds great, the RME FF 800 went out the window when i got this.

[tubeydude]

Alright, I couldn't stand it anymore...I just ordered one. It should be here around thursday. Once I get it I will be doing a bunch of tests. I hope it is all I hope.

I have an old Allen and Heath Sigma 24 S feeding 2 firepod's line ins.

This R16 will have more functionality in a MUCH smaller package. But if the sound quality is not there...it goes back.

[LSProductions]

Originally Posted by tubeydude

Alright, I couldn't stand it anymore...I just ordered one. It should be here around thursday. Once I get it I will be doing a bunch of tests. I hope it is all I hope.

I have an old Allen and Heath Sigma 24 S feeding 2 firepod's line ins.

This R16 will have more functionality in a MUCH smaller package. But if the sound quality is not there...it goes back.

Please let us know if this thing does indeed have the sound quality your after. I've been on the fence about this mixer for a while. I've been needing to expand to 16 channels, but I could get there using a rack monted,8 channel interface with multiple digital ins and outs, and an 8 channel pre, for quite a bit less money.

I've been following several threads where owners were going to post some more examples, and/or comparisons, and it hasn't happened yet. I know it's time consuming, but I sure am intrigued.

It seems to me this mixer should have the WOW effect, at least according to the adds, etc. The price point does seem fare, but ONLY if it has that analog "mojo", so to speak.

I don't actually "need" to purchase anything right now, but the analog mixing/summing has my sonic curiosity peaked for sure.

Marc

[jasongardner]

Sorry for delay in posting some files. Unexpected trip keeps me busy untill holiday period.
Should have something by then

[girlthatdrums]

If someone has an Onyx they can test against, I'd love to see those results as well. I'm considering one of these because I could eliminate 3 pieces of gear right off the bat with this and have 16 channels of midi faders rather than my current 8. But I'm really happy with my Onyx pres so at the price point, it would have to be an improvement over the Onyx pres for me to bite the bullet...

[awediohead]

I'd like to hear from anyone who can compare these mic pres to ANY other pres side by side . . . so far all I have to go on is that the SOS reviewer compared them to DAV BG1 pres. That's pretty impressive, but also kinda hard to believe given what 16 DAV BG1's would cost!!

. . . so more real world comparisons would be very very welcome!

cheers

[Shilla]

I've been reading this thread for the past hour, and I must say I'm thinking about this board.

I was going to get a Dbox to do the analog summing (I'm using a Digi003 mixer version).

Could both these be used together? Or is that road kill? If they could, I'd have a mixing controller surface and the board as well. I'm starting to get into doing live sound as well, so that's why I'm looking at it. I really like that the ZED is so all in one, so this would take away the need to get the Dbox for me.. and could be used for so many different things.

help!

[jonnathaniel]

Hello Mr. AllenHeath when can we expect a larger/improved ZED-R model?
a DeLuxe version of 16 ch. version....mmmm... with more metering, subgroups, longer faders....mmmm or a sexy 24 ch. version with all of the above + a tc reverb and a delay...tempting tempting
c'mon shed some light!