A&H Zed R16 Firewire Mixer

[Scotty P]

Actually Mike has mentioned a ZedR16 MK II, but no info yet

I've just finished reading the entire thread thumbsup i don't remember Mike mentioning anything about a MKII R16. So my question to Mike is will there be one? If so no doubt it will be released after the R24.

I am so wanting one of these but am wondering if i should wait for the R24 guess i will have to wait until they release a price for it, hence my question about the MII R16.

Has anyone compared the R16 to the Mackie Onyx 1640i? some people have mentioned the Mackie but no one has gone in depth as they pretty much do the same thing. Has anyone been unhappy with there ZED and switched to the Mackie? i guess the major difference is the Mackie has no middi control but thats about it.

[tomtama]

I feel compelled to post this as I hope it will help other potential ZED R16 purchasers make an informed decision. I've posted in this tread before about the initial problems I had with two ZED R16s. The first would not connect to my PC at all so I exchanged it. The second arrived and connected to my PC on the first attempt. Later in the day I powered it off. A few hours later I powered it back on and it would not connect (I confirmed with AH support that it did NOT have a grounding problem). I worked with AH support and we could not fix the problem, so I exchanged it for a third ZED R16. They thought the problem might be related to my firewire card even thought the one I have is a TI chip based card that is fully supported and there was no evidence that the card was causing a problem (It did and still works perfectly with my Echo Audiofire 12s). I bought a new firewire card that they recommended. The third one worked well for literally one week. I powered it off and when I tried to power it on later in the day it would not power on. Another call to AH support to report the symptoms confirmed that the power supply had failed. Well, needless to say I returned this one for a refund.

IMHO there are some serious technical or manufacturing issues with this board. If you've had no issues to date that's great consider yourself lucky, but you could be sitting on a time bomb. Buyer beware!!!

[daveg62]

Originally Posted by tomtama

I feel compelled to post this as I hope it will help other potential ZED R16 purchasers make an informed decision. I've posted in this tread before about the initial problems I had with two ZED R16s. The first would not connect to my PC at all so I exchanged it. The second arrived and connected to my PC on the first attempt. Later in the day I powered it off. A few hours later I powered it back on and it would not connect (I confirmed with AH support that it did NOT have a grounding problem). I worked with AH support and we could not fix the problem, so I exchanged it for a third ZED R16. They thought the problem might be related to my firewire card even thought the one I have is a TI chip based card that is fully supported and there was no evidence that the card was causing a problem (It did and still works perfectly with my Echo Audiofire 12s). I bought a new firewire card that they recommended. The third one worked well for literally one week. I powered it off and when I tried to power it on later in the day it would not power on. Another call to AH support to report the symptoms confirmed that the power supply had failed. Well, needless to say I returned this one for a refund.

IMHO there are some serious technical or manufacturing issues with this board. If you've had no issues to date that's great consider yourself lucky, but you could be sitting on a time bomb. Buyer beware!!!

Just out of curiosity, are you in the USA or elsewhere and what voltage are you using?

[Scotty P]

Just out of curiosity, are you in the USA or elsewhere and what voltage are you using?

That shouldn't matter, i believe the R16 is 100 or 110 to 240 mains voltage so it will work any ware. Unless your getting major current draw from something, that may result in pulling down the power supply. Sure you havn't got a million double adapters plugged into your GPO (wall socket)

i myself am weary of buying a lemon, i think the most solid set up is a mac with logic. Mac user's seem to have less problems according to this thread. I will be buying the pc to suit the mixer, i think a lot of people are adding it to there existing set up which is causing some conflicting issues. Keep in mind the grounding issue and drivers are 95% of peoples problems. That's easy fixed. Find a stable os and use the drivers to suit. Grounding issue already explained a million times on here.

[tomtama]

Originally Posted by Scotty P

That shouldn't matter, i believe the R16 is 100 or 110 to 240 mains voltage so it will work any ware. Unless your getting major current draw from something, that may result in pulling down the power supply. Sure you havn't got a million double adapters plugged into your GPO (wall socket)

I'm in the USA. I do NOT have a million adapters going into one wall socket. My studio is on two circuits and I use Furman power conditions for all of my equipment. The only piece of equipment I have ever had any problems with in my studio is the ZED R16, period. The problems I experiecned with the ZED were all physical in nature, not driver or application related. Three in a row failed, what does that say about the product?

[lance135]

Originally Posted by tomtama

I'm in the USA. I do NOT have a million adapters going into one wall socket. My studio is on two circuits and I use Furman power conditions for all of my equipment. The only piece of equipment I have ever had any problems with in my studio is the ZED R16, period. The problems I experiecned with the ZED were all physical in nature, not driver or application related. Three in a row failed, what does that say about the product?

Well, it could be that A&H produced only ZED R16's that are lemons, and that you happened to get all three.

It could be that your postman has it in for you and is sabotaging all of your mixers before delivering them.

However, it could also mean there is a serious quality control issue going on at the factory.

[Cheesehead]

Has anyone compared the R16 to the Mackie Onyx 1640i? some people have mentioned the Mackie but no one has gone in depth as they pretty much do the same thing. Has anyone been unhappy with there ZED and switched to the Mackie? i guess the major difference is the Mackie has no middi control but thats about it.[/QUOTE]

The Mackie can only return 2 channels back from the computer via Firewire, as compared to the ZED's 16 plus 2.

[depulse]

Originally Posted by Cheesehead

The Mackie can only return 2 channels back from the computer via Firewire, as compared to the ZED's 16 plus 2.

Nope, the 1640 is full 16x16

[Brian Cares]

Well, as i am just waiting for my Soundtoys update to finish the download i thought i´d chime in again:

There are a couple of problems with the FW connection that might have nothing to do with the reported grounding issue. I went through quite some trouble with my board which in the end turned out to be one of the following problems:

1. HOT-plugging the FW bus. This is not mentioned in the ZED manual but in other manuals of FW equipment: There is a (probably small) chance that hotplugging the board can cause the FW card go faulty. While talking to computer guys and colleages having a lot to do with digital cameras and HDs the condensed opinion was to NEVER plug a FW device while switched on. There are big red warnings about this in camera or (for example) SoundDevices manuals. If you think your board is faulty, first try to use it with another computer or FW card.

2. The FW driver itself seems to be very sensitive when it comes to background processes and malware. I pulled quite some hair off my head, when my board with a fresh installed FW card arrived and it appearently would not work. I then tried it on a friends mac and voilá... perfect.
I did a complete virus and malware scan which found a couple of bastards.
Aaand drumroll... the board would work. When i put an sd card from my camera in the computer the board IMMEDIATELY showed the old faulty behaviour without even clicking ANYTHING. Another malware scan solved the problem... Go figure..


So, my tip to all users with problems (at least on XP) is to check your FW connection on the computer, try the board with another FW card and take a look at your background programs and virus activities before sending the unit out to repair.

I am also thinking that by now A&H would have solved the manufacturing problem. So there is a good chance that at least some of the reports here might relate to the aforementioned problems.

I also would like to suggest to A&H, to include at least a little note of the hotplugging thingy in the next revision of the manual.


Allright. Download is finished and i go play with my new toys

[tomtama]

Originally Posted by Brian Cares

I also would like to suggest to A&H, to include at least a little note of the hotplugging thingy in the next revision of the manual.

Not only do they NOT advise against it, AH actually recommend hot plugging. On page 24 of the User's Guide the instructions appear to indicate that you SHOULD plug the ZED in AFTER it is powered on. I've always plugged FW devices in when the computer and the device were OFF. Below is what it says on page 24. There are similar instructions in other sections of the manual.

"It is usually a more reliable method to connect to the FireWire bus once the ZED-R16 is powered on,

rather than switching on the power with the FireWire bus already connected."

[Brian Cares]

Yeah. I know what they mean. Its a 50/50 chance that the mixer will be recognized when switching it on when plugged in.

The point is that, when switched on and not connected, the FW card and the mixer have different potentials (i hope thats the right word..) which would in the worst case lead to unwanted flow of power between the 2 devices when connected. (pls excuse me very bad physics vocabulary)
This can and appearently did major damage to connected devices.

I was talking to a guy worth of 20 years engineering and computing.
He was very serious about that issue and told me to first connect the devices switched off, then switch on the external device (mixer in this case) and then power up the computer. This also led to a 100 percent succes rate of the computer recognizing the mixer.

I dont doubt that A&H are doing excellent resarch and engineering.
But maybe they overlooked something in this very case. (I believe, its their first FW device ever.) This would also explain a not so small part of the problems appearing in this thread since 2 years.

I was told by an A&H repair tech that hotplugging is absolutely no problem. I can see indication that this information might not be exactly and a 100 percent correct.

Maybe someone with deeper knowledge could chime in.

[Cheesehead]

Originally Posted by depulse

Nope, the 1640 is full 16x16

Sorry for the bad info, and thanks for the correction.

[daveg62]

I keep my firewire cable plugged in all the time. Doesn't matter which I switch on first, pc or Zed, it's always recognized. And I don't use a Mac either so there goes that theory.

[cavern]

Originally Posted by daveg62

I keep my firewire cable plugged in all the time. Doesn't matter which I switch on first, pc or Zed, it's always recognized. And I don't use a Mac either so there goes that theory.

same here.
and i just tried plugging and unplugging the cable (5 times) with both computer and r16 running and that didn't matter either.

[Brian Cares]

To Dave and Cavern: Did you try your mixer on another computer?
Make sure this one meets the specs (FW) wise because my 2nd laptop did not, but a friends macbook.

And Cavern: That very procedere can cause FW boards to break.

[cavern]

Originally Posted by Brian Cares

To Dave and Cavern: Did you try your mixer on another computer?
Make sure this one meets the specs (FW) wise because my 2nd laptop did not, but a friends macbook.

And Cavern: That very procedere can cause FW boards to break.

you might be right about that but i learned to troubleshoot by digging in and taking risks. that's just me,im not recommending it.
and no i havn't tried the r16 on any other machine so far.

i personally never use laptops for audio.
i've always use home built dedicated computers with top components and fast drives.i make sure i get the right cards or keep trying other ones till i get the right card.
i don't install land drivers or security and uninstall any non audio related programs.i cancel 90% of the services and stop everything in start up from msconfig.
i strip them down to the bare minimum and i never have problems not to mention they rum smooth and quick.

i still have an onyx 1200f that i use for spare pre's now and never had problems with that either..many said i would.
i use a cheap computer for internet and the bit of video that i do.

definitly not all but a lot of the problems are computer/cards/internet security/??????/ related and not the interface.
if you have a stripped down computer, it' a lot quicker to get to the root of the problem.

[daveg62]

Originally Posted by cavern

you might be right about that but i learned to troubleshoot by digging in and taking risks. that's just me,im not recommending it.
and no i havn't tried the r16 on any other machine so far.

i personally never use laptops for audio.
i've always use home built dedicated computers with top components and fast drives.i make sure i get the right cards or keep trying other ones till i get the right card.
i don't install land drivers or security and uninstall any non audio related programs.i cancel 90% of the services and stop everything in start up from msconfig.
i strip them down to the bare minimum and i never have problems not to mention they rum smooth and quick.

i still have an onyx 1200f that i use for spare pre's now and never had problems with that either..many said i would.
i use a cheap computer for internet and the bit of video that i do.

definitly not all but a lot of the problems are computer/cards/internet security/??????/ related and not the interface.
if you have a stripped down computer, it' a lot quicker to get to the root of the problem.

+1 for me on all of that. I learned a long time ago to keep my main DAW strictly for audio. I tried an older macbook with the Zed once and it worked ok but was just a bit too slow for me once the track count got too high. So for remote work I'm going with an Alesis HD24. One of the main reasons I went with the Zed was because of the ADAT option and I'm glad I did. Laptops, unless you buy one from ADK or someplace that specializes in audio, probably will be problematic for most people. Not all, but most.

[Stunted]

I've been running the Zed R16 for over a year now on a purpose built music PC with Win XP 32 bit ....only once didn't connect and that was when I switched the Zed on before the PC...if I boot the PC and wait for it to be fully started then switch on the Zed no problems whatsoever, likewise I always switch the Zed off after I've booted down the PC.

The machine is set up and used almost exclusively for recording but I do have a scanner set up on it ( again follow the same switch on / start up procedures with no problems ) and very occasionally go on the net but I try to keep that to a minimum.

Have Avira virus / Superantispyware spyware and Comodo firewall all live and running...no problems.

Using Sonar 7 Producer and Reason...flawless.

I think sometimes it is too easy, especially with computers and Windows machines in particular, to blame a piece of hardware when in most instances it is the user and the way they use the machine that creates problems / conflicts. I rarely update the machine with new windows updates or software updates..it works and records effortlessly....why change the wheel etc ? A friend for example is anal about having the latest update this that and the other and his machine / hardware lets him down all the time.

[Brian Cares]

Originally Posted by cavern

you might be right about that but i learned to troubleshoot by digging in and taking risks. that's just me,im not recommending it.
and no i havn't tried the r16 on any other machine so far.

There you go. Just give it a try.
I was almost crying when the repaired machine wouldnt work on my computer. This simple test revealed that the problem was on my computers side, which is a well maintained system not connected to the interwebz and solely for audio and working flawlessly for 2 years.

Good luck

[cavern]

Originally Posted by Brian Cares

There you go. Just give it a try.
I was almost crying when the repaired machine wouldnt work on my computer. This simple test revealed that the problem was on my computers side, which is a well maintained system not connected to the interwebz and solely for audio and working flawlessly for 2 years.

Good luck

i don't quite get your point.
i did say in my post that a lot of these problems are computer related and just because a computer has been working flawlessly for two years with one interface doesn't mean that there won't be a problem with a different interface for some reason.
hence the troubleshooting skills.

i also have no need to try another computer but if this happened to me, wich it has(i have run into problems in the past) with different things and i usually would try another computer first before thinking it's the interface, i have 3 or could use a friend's.
i would get to the bottom of it fairly quickly.

[Brian Cares]

Ahh. Sorry. I thought i read in your post that your Zed is not working.
Was just trying to help. Never mind

[cavern]

Originally Posted by Brian Cares

Ahh. Sorry. I thought i read in your post that your Zed is not working.
Was just trying to help. Never mind

that's cool man, i was just confused.

[dj.quash]

I'm using the zed with cubase. All is well apart from i cant hear the metronome. Can anyone fill me in?

[cavern]

Originally Posted by dj.quash

I'm using the zed with cubase. All is well apart from i cant hear the metronome. Can anyone fill me in?

could you hear the metronome before you bought the zed.

[fnord23]

Just a quick question regarding routing and i/o.

Scenario:

I have 16 mono tracks in the DAW.
I want to use the EQ on the ZED on every channel.
Can i EQ all channels and then "record"/bounce all 16 channels back into DAW?

And if/if not, will the R24 be able to?

[Alien Health]

Originally Posted by tomtama

I feel compelled to post this as I hope it will help other potential ZED R16 purchasers make an informed decision. I've posted in this tread before about the initial problems I had with two ZED R16s. The first would not connect to my PC at all so I exchanged it. The second arrived and connected to my PC on the first attempt. Later in the day I powered it off. A few hours later I powered it back on and it would not connect (I confirmed with AH support that it did NOT have a grounding problem). I worked with AH support and we could not fix the problem, so I exchanged it for a third ZED R16. They thought the problem might be related to my firewire card even thought the one I have is a TI chip based card that is fully supported and there was no evidence that the card was causing a problem (It did and still works perfectly with my Echo Audiofire 12s). I bought a new firewire card that they recommended. The third one worked well for literally one week. I powered it off and when I tried to power it on later in the day it would not power on. Another call to AH support to report the symptoms confirmed that the power supply had failed. Well, needless to say I returned this one for a refund.

IMHO there are some serious technical or manufacturing issues with this board. If you've had no issues to date that's great consider yourself lucky, but you could be sitting on a time bomb. Buyer beware!!!

Hi Tomtama,
I'm sorry that you've had such a terrible experience and you have every right to be angry. I can't believe this was just bad luck - there must be an underlying problem causing this to happen, did anyone come to your installation to try to diagnose it? I'm not implying it's an issue caused by the installation/mains/computer or the mixer for that matter - maybe it's a combination but it should have been looked into on site.
It's true to say there have been a "relatively small" number of FireWire connection issues which have been explained by either our grounding link omission during assembly (flushed through a while ago), issues with XP service packs (Microsoft patch needed), or issues with newer Mac OSXs/processors that we and TCAT who supply the drivers are working on.
The number of instances of actual console failure as with your 3rd mixer I can count on the fingers of one hand out of the many hundreds shipped.
If I'd heard how bad your experience had been earlier I would have come out myself (if you were still speaking to me!)

Sorry once again,

Mike.
Allen & Heath Limited.

[cavern]

Originally Posted by fnord23

Just a quick question regarding routing and i/o.

Scenario:

I have 16 mono tracks in the DAW.
I want to use the EQ on the ZED on every channel.
Can i EQ all channels and then "record"/bounce all 16 channels back into DAW?

And if/if not, will the R24 be able to?

yes, you can do that.
you create 16 more tracks in your daws.
assign them to the coresponding tracks.
press the two top buttons by the sliders on the z.

[dj.quash]

Originally Posted by cavern

could you hear the metronome before you bought the zed.

Yes. Its like i have to route it to somewhere to get the playback for the click. Is this the case? I have 3 mics plugged up and working all on (dig send post eq) and (dig return post eq.) an input and output bus for each channel and a stereo output bus routed to firewire 17/18 for the master. I dont have a stereo input bus on firewire 17/18. That could be it? I have it all recording as i want but when i activate it i can hear no metronome?

[cavern]

Originally Posted by dj.quash

Yes. Its like i have to route it to somewhere to get the playback for the click. Is this the case? I have 3 mics plugged up and working all on (dig send post eq) and (dig return post eq.) an input and output bus for each channel and a stereo output bus routed to firewire 17/18 for the master. I dont have a stereo input bus on firewire 17/18. That could be it? I have it all recording as i want but when i activate it i can hear no metronome?

edit: you don't have to activate the bus, cubase automatically shows the output bus selected at the bottom of the master track bus in bus #1 wich is always active. in device/vst outputs.
however, when i select the zed 17/18(zed masterL/R) bus as the master bus, i can't hear the clic unless i press the DIG MASTER to L/R button on the board.

[dj.quash]

Originally Posted by cavern

edit: you don't have to activate the bus, cubase automatically shows the output bus selected at the bottom of the master track bus in bus #1 wich is always active. in device/vst outputs.
however, when i select the zed 17/18(zed masterL/R) bus as the master bus, i can't hear the clic unless i press the DIG MASTER to L/R button on the board.

I'll give it a try. Thanks for your comments all.

EZ