A&H Zed R16 Firewire Mixer

[djmukilteo]

Originally Posted by digibird

Couldn't you still use all the midi controls (Transport & faders, etc.) on the ZED r16 to control Cubase functions even when the ZED is in ADAT mode by using a midi cable for MMC messages from ZED to RME FF800? I realize you're not using midi over firewire in this case, but isn't there a midi out on the ZED to hook up to the FF800's Midi in?

You know I tried that and couldn't get it to work, exactly the way you described through the RME FF800. So if someone out there can explain what I did wrong ...maybe in Cubase I don't know....I would like to know if it will work.... but I think it might require the FW connection for it to work properly which I know it does because i had it all hooked up with FW on its own without ADAT and the RME.....but documentation on the MIDI is very sketchy and incomplete and it would be nice if some MIDI expert here or at A&H could write up a few things.
I only have one FW port on my PC so that is being used by the RME at this point and it all works great that way....the drivers on the RME are so solid and it all syncs nicely together so I figured when I get some time I will look into getting the MIDI to work.
I just found it to fit what I want to do without the MIDI controller and using in ADAT mode only like a console....the automation can be done in Cubase and I don't know if anyone out there has done automation in Cubase using the ZED MIDI on the channels and how that works...that's another thing I would be curious about!
there is still a lot of things I don't know about the ZED and how it all fits together with my setup.
I would think using it as a FW interface is the better method which is why I've considered using it on a separate computer.
I don't really want to mess with my RME/Cubase setup right now and I don't feel like getting rid of it either....it sounds to nice....they both do!
I'm still watching all of these threads for things that come up from more expert users of the ZED.....

[atl123]

I didn't see this in the thread.

Since most of the tracks I record and their effects are mono, why can't I return it to the board for summing as a mono track. Why does it have to go back as a stereo track? This makes it where I can only send 8 mono tracks back to the board and not use the even numbered tracks at all (because it would double it.)

I am using Sonar and I hope there is a way to do this, but I have yet to discover it.

Basically why can't Guitar track 1 be sent to channel 1 and guitar track 2 be sent to channel 2. Each having its own eq, panning, and fader available as needed. Currently I have to send each track back as stereo. Guitar1 will be send to channel 1 and 2, and I have to either mute channel 2, or turn off the LR button, and just mix with channel 1.

I should be able to pick and choose when I want to send mono or when I want to send stereo tracks.

[tomtama]

I'm really trying to like the ZED R16, but I'm going on my third one in two weeks. The first one I received had a number of issues, bent fader on channel 1, clicks and pops when pressing the PFL buttons and it would not connect to my PC at all even though the serial number was not in the range of the units with the grounding problem. The box I received it in looked like it had been around the world 10 times.

So, I send that one back and got the replacement about a week later. I un-box it, set it up and presto everything is working fine. I record a few tracks. Try playing the tracks back and some of the other ZED features, no problems. So I think I'm all set. I completely tear apart my studio and setup the ZED as my centerpiece. I plug everything in, turn it back on and, WHAT #$%^&*??? It will not connect to my computer. I tried every trick I know, different cables, FW ports, reload the driver, reboot, you name it. It will NOT connect. My main PC is Windows 7 64 bit. So, I load the drivers on my XP 32 bit system and try it there. No luck it will not connect. So, I call Allen & Heath support. Turns out my ZED had the grounding problem, but the distributor claims they fixed it before shipping it. I guess they didn't do a very good job.

So now this one is going back and they claim they will send me one that is factory fresh without the grounding problem and they will test it before sending it. You know the old saying, "three strikes and you're out". If it doesn't work this time I'm done with the ZED. I only have so much patience.

Wish me luck. I really want to like and use this product.

[daveg62]

Originally Posted by atl123

I didn't see this in the thread.

Since most of the tracks I record and their effects are mono, why can't I return it to the board for summing as a mono track. Why does it have to go back as a stereo track? This makes it where I can only send 8 mono tracks back to the board and not use the even numbered tracks at all (because it would double it.)

I am using Sonar and I hope there is a way to do this, but I have yet to discover it.

Basically why can't Guitar track 1 be sent to channel 1 and guitar track 2 be sent to channel 2. Each having its own eq, panning, and fader available as needed. Currently I have to send each track back as stereo. Guitar1 will be send to channel 1 and 2, and I have to either mute channel 2, or turn off the LR button, and just mix with channel 1.

I should be able to pick and choose when I want to send mono or when I want to send stereo tracks.

I believe this is the way all DAW software works. At least every one that I have used. When summing you should pan the tracks on your Zed to tracks 1-2 left-right, 3-4 left-right and so on for all 16 tracks. Then you can pan your mono tracks in your software to where you want them. So you really have 8 stereo tracks or 16 tracks to sum to. No need to mute or turn off anything.

[atl123]

Originally Posted by daveg62

I believe this is the way all DAW software works. At least every one that I have used. When summing you should pan the tracks on your Zed to tracks 1-2 left-right, 3-4 left-right and so on for all 16 tracks. Then you can pan your mono tracks in your software to where you want them. So you really have 8 stereo tracks or 16 tracks to sum to. No need to mute or turn off anything.

It took me posting to figure out how to do it, after messing around with it for a while.

I was trying to pan the individual tracks but that was wrong. The ZED panning also has nothing to do with it.

The effect/bus send in the DAW has a pan on it. I was able to pan guitar 1 to channel 1&2 all the way to the left so only Ch 1 ever received it. Same for guitar 2, except I panned it all the way to the right on its bus send to Ch. 1&2.

Finally. This will make things easier. I knew there had to be a way to do this. Thanks for helping.

[djmukilteo]

Originally Posted by atl123

I didn't see this in the thread.

Since most of the tracks I record and their effects are mono, why can't I return it to the board for summing as a mono track. Why does it have to go back as a stereo track? This makes it where I can only send 8 mono tracks back to the board and not use the even numbered tracks at all (because it would double it.)

I am using Sonar and I hope there is a way to do this, but I have yet to discover it.

Basically why can't Guitar track 1 be sent to channel 1 and guitar track 2 be sent to channel 2. Each having its own eq, panning, and fader available as needed. Currently I have to send each track back as stereo. Guitar1 will be send to channel 1 and 2, and I have to either mute channel 2, or turn off the LR button, and just mix with channel 1.

I should be able to pick and choose when I want to send mono or when I want to send stereo tracks.

Well I don't know how you have your Sonar setup but in Cubase you can setup all stereo or all mono tracks or a mixture......maybe the template your using is the reason...you need to create and define your track counts and set them to either stereo pairs or mono whatever you like....that's not the ZED doing that

[malfunction]

Originally Posted by tomtama

even though the serial number was not in the range of the units with the grounding problem

have these serial number been noted somewhere? I might have missed a post...

[malfunction]

is anyone on here using the this mixer with a macbook/macbook pro? Are you using an external hd or the internal to record to?

[erod]

Originally Posted by malfunction

is anyone on here using the this mixer with a macbook/macbook pro? Are you using an external hd or the internal to record to?

Hi,

I use my Zed R16 with a mackbook!
I use the internal HD and I have don't have any problems !

ciao

[ajk!]

Originally Posted by erod

Hi,

I use my Zed R16 with a mackbook!
I use the internal HD and I have don't have any problems !

ciao

Hi erod

What RPM is your HD and do you use Logic?
Have your tried tracking 16 channels at once?

cheers

[erod]

Originally Posted by ajk!

Hi erod

What RPM is your HD and do you use Logic?
Have your tried tracking 16 channels at once?

cheers

Hi ajk,

I have a normal macbook core 2 duo white.
I have only one time, recorded multitrack, I use only chanels 17&18 !

[ajk!]

thanks erod, I just noticed your signature as soon as I had posted!

I am looking to buy the R16 or R24 (when released) to track a full band (drums, bass, guitars, vox) so I'm interested to see if my macbook pro running Logic Express 9 can cope with 16+ channels at once. I'm guessing I will be better off using an external HD at 7200RPM.

[arvproductions]

Hi ajk!,

I think you are right. The amount of channels at the same time is related to the speed of the drive. Im not sure if an external 7200 drive will help you... But then again, i am not a computer nut.

[digibird]

I'm very suprised there is not more discussion on the AD/DA converter quality of the r16 - this is Gearslutz, after all, where converters have been compared to each other for endless pages in a thread/shoot-out.

So, how do the r16 converters compare to an RME FF800? Can you compare them to a Behringer ADA 8000? What do you hear and do you like it?

[daveg62]

Originally Posted by digibird

I'm very suprised there is not more discussion on the AD/DA converter quality of the r16 - this is Gearslutz, after all, where converters have been compared to each other for endless pages in a thread/shoot-out.

So, how do the r16 converters compare to an RME FF800? Can you compare them to a Behringer ADA 8000? What do you hear and do you like it?

The Zed converters are very good. I have used RME multiface with ADA8000 for a few years, RME FF800 for a few years, and then Lucid 8824 and RME ADI-8 just recently for about 2 years. The ZED are comparable to the Lucid and RME converters I am used to. Probably better than ADA8000 or FF800 in my opinion. Maybe they are not mentioned because they are not a concern.

[djmukilteo]

I have both the RME FF800 and the ZEDR16. I had the RME FF800 prior to purchasing the ZED16R. I tried both of them separately on FW using Cubase 4.5.2.
I liked the RME converter sound a tiny bit better than the ZED's.
I only tried 44.1 @ 24bit and used the same samples.
Now the ZED had a brighter, edgier sound (if that makes any sense) more in your face kind of bright sound....whereas the RME had a much smoother flatter more balanced sound to my ears. For me it was extremely hard to tell what I would prefer and I tried very hard to make sure that my comparison was the same material. I was trying not to be biased but for all I know I might still be biased toward the RME only because I was more used to that sound.
I think some people will like the ZED16R sound and term it more "analog".
I would like to hear others opinions on comparing those two units.

As of right now I'm using the ZED16R as ADAT into and out of the RME and using the ZED as my mixdown console and monitor section OTB. This was one thing I didn't like about the RME. It doesn't have any real world hands on controls all software. This has been really nice in terms of getting some fat sounds out to 2 track with all the EQ, Pan and faders.

[cavern]

well i got my r-16 today and it set up without a hitch. downloaded some mixes,tried some mics,recorded some drums, played some cd's. messed with the e.q. a little bit and i gotta say, i really like this new toy. really well made and it sounds great.
thanks mike, im glad your in the mixer business.

[Yeah, right...]

Originally Posted by daveg62

The Zed converters are very good. I have used RME multiface with ADA8000 for a few years, RME FF800 for a few years, and then Lucid 8824 and RME ADI-8 just recently for about 2 years. The ZED are comparable to the Lucid and RME converters I am used to. Probably better than ADA8000 or FF800 in my opinion. Maybe they are not mentioned because they are not a concern.

Thanks for that.

I also have been wondering about the quality of the converters, and couldn't find reference to them anywhere...

Mike

[djmukilteo]

Originally Posted by digibird

I'm very suprised there is not more discussion on the AD/DA converter quality of the r16 - this is Gearslutz, after all, where converters have been compared to each other for endless pages in a thread/shoot-out.

So, how do the r16 converters compare to an RME FF800? Can you compare them to a Behringer ADA 8000? What do you hear and do you like it?

SHOOT OUT! SHOOT OUT! SHOOT OUT!
ZED16R against all takers!
Yah!

[fullcircuit]

I'm an old school live sound guy, but I want to be able to start offering clients multitrack recording on the side. My other dream is to get rid of my outboard rack efx, especiallly needing to ring out monitors and mains via a 31 band graphic eq. Im about to try an R 16. I've been a PC guy forever but hate Microsoft. Should I switch to Macbook Pro? My problem is for the money I can get a new iCore intel quad chip Sony Vio ($1100 US) I can only get an older MacbookPro duo core 2.4 gig. Will it matter?
The big drain is that I want to be able to record AND use the computer to fun my efx for the live mix simultaneously! Has anyone been crazy enough to tryh that yet? What I'm talking about is: sending all 18 channels of the R16 to "tape" (computer via firewire) then returning them "wet" with plugin-added efx and sending them on through the analog board to the FOH and monitors.
Please let me know which platform handles this best and if it's even possible.
Much Obliged.

[depulse]

Why is there such a big difference in price between the UK (for example DV247) and Germany (Thomann, Musicstore) for the R16?

It costs 1700 Euros in the Uk and 2200 Euros in Germany. Normally the German stores used to be the cheapest in Europe but for the R16 it's 500 Euros cheaper to buy it in the UK.

[ajk!]

Originally Posted by depulse

Why is there such a big difference in price between the UK (for example DV247) and Germany (Thomann, Musicstore) for the R16?

It costs 1700 Euros in the Uk and 2200 Euros in Germany. Normally the German stores used to be the cheapest in Europe but for the R16 it's 500 Euros cheaper to buy it in the UK.

DV247 seem to be cheapest for pretty much anything here in the UK, a few months ago I assumed it was down to the lower VAT rate but that's back to normal now.

either way - happy days for everyone in the UK, finally getting reasonable prices for once!

[arvproductions]

Originally Posted by fullcircuit

I'm an old school live sound guy, but I want to be able to start offering clients multitrack recording on the side. My other dream is to get rid of my outboard rack efx, especiallly needing to ring out monitors and mains via a 31 band graphic eq. Im about to try an R 16. I've been a PC guy forever but hate Microsoft. Should I switch to Macbook Pro? My problem is for the money I can get a new iCore intel quad chip Sony Vio ($1100 US) I can only get an older MacbookPro duo core 2.4 gig. Will it matter?
The big drain is that I want to be able to record AND use the computer to fun my efx for the live mix simultaneously! Has anyone been crazy enough to tryh that yet? What I'm talking about is: sending all 18 channels of the R16 to "tape" (computer via firewire) then returning them "wet" with plugin-added efx and sending them on through the analog board to the FOH and monitors.
Please let me know which platform handles this best and if it's even possible.
Much Obliged.

It is possible. You can send each channel to the pc, add fx and other stuff and then route it back to the same channel. No prob.
What matters most is the speed and quality of your computer. If you want 16 channels in and out and on every single channel lots of plugins, you need a significantly speedy computer.
I think a mac or pc platform does not matter much. But beware of the fact that the DICE FW chipset of the ZED is very picky.

[herwert]

Originally Posted by arvproductions

I think a mac or pc platform does not matter much. But beware of the fact that the DICE FW chipset of the ZED is very picky.

Can you explain what you mean bij; very picky? Do you need a special (some special type or chipset special or from some brand) firewire card in your PC?

[arvproductions]

Originally Posted by herwert

Can you explain what you mean bij; very picky? Do you need a special (some special type or chipset special or from some brand) firewire card in your PC?

The most modern consumer laptops (and non-pro type Macs) have Ricoh FW chips if i am correct. That can be a problem. I asked for info at A&H and what i obtained is this:


1394 FW Chip sets compatible with DICE:

This list contains FireWire interfaces which have been tested.
Cards not in the list might or might not work.

-Agere/LSI FW323-06
-VIA VT6306
-VIA VT6308
-TI TSB43AB23


1394 Chip sets NOT compatible with DICE

-NEC D72873GC
-NEC D72874GC
-NEC uPD72874

I hope this is of any help. I opted for a nice new MacPro to make sure there is no prob.
Ramon

[microwave]

Hi all, my R16 is up for sale

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gears...ml#post5017489

Its in mint condition and always worked flawlessly on my Mac system.
As an added bonus it comes with a pair of fantastic looking African oak side cheeks, which I had custom made (check out the pictures).
(Anyone interested in the side cheeks, I can give you the email of the guy who did them for me).
I would really like it to go to the good home of a gearslut!

[robotparty]

Originally Posted by jplum

Hi Guys

I've been experiencing a few drop outs of late and noticed that I seem to lose lock, which then causes Cubase to crash. Is this the symptom of missing Firewire 0r resistors or something more sinister ?

rgds



Device unlocked.
8:47:27 pm : ZED R16 : device rx lock changed:
8:47:27 pm : ZED R16 : arx4 arx3 arx2 arx1 tdif adat aes4 aes3 aes2 aes1
8:47:27 pm : ZED R16 : U U U U U L U U U U
8:47:27 pm : ZED R16 : device rx lock changed:
8:47:27 pm : ZED R16 : arx4 arx3 arx2 arx1 tdif adat aes4 aes3 aes2 aes1
8:47:27 pm : ZED R16 : U U U U U U U U U U
8:47:27 pm : ZED R16 : device rx lock changed:
8:47:27 pm : ZED R16 : arx4 arx3 arx2 arx1 tdif adat aes4 aes3 aes2 aes1
8:47:27 pm : ZED R16 : U U L L U L U U U U
8:47:27 pm : ZED R16 : Device locked.
8:48:28 pm : ZED R16 : device rx lock changed:
8:48:28 pm : ZED R16 : arx4 arx3 arx2 arx1 tdif adat aes4 aes3 aes2 aes1
8:48:28 pm : ZED R16 : U U U U U L U U U U
8:48:29 pm : ZED R16 : device rx lock changed:
8:48:29 pm : ZED R16 : arx4 arx3 arx2 arx1 tdif adat aes4 aes3 aes2 aes1
8:48:29 pm : ZED R16 : U U L L U L U U U U

Hey, jplum.

While I do not have the ZED R16, I do have the similar Alesis Multimix16 Firewire, and I am experiencing the exact message and problems quoted above. I've tested the mixer, firewire cable, sound card(which houses the firewire port that I plug my mixer into) and all seem to be working fine otherwise. I noticed you mentioned that you solved the problem by downgrading your SATA raid controller, but I'm not quite sure how to go about doing that. Is this just a matter of downloading a different set of drivers or did you actually have a tangible RAID controller that you had to change out? I believe my RAID controller is built into my motherboard so if it's the latter I may be screwed already. Also, upon reading your post, I tried to enter my RAID utility at the opening screen of my comp to see if i could get some info... only to get a message that says RAID utility disabled... I'm not sure if this is related, but to a computer novice like me, it struck me as odd because i haven't had this problem before. Anyway, I just want to get back to recording and any advice on how to fix this issue from you or anyone would be greatly appreciated. thanks!

FML,
Will

[SteveGN]

Need Help


Problem one - My keyboard is not acting as a midi keyboard with my Apple logic midi instrument plug-ins, it did with my PreSonus firewire. I have been told by Apple it is because there is no midi in - is this fact?

Problem two - When I try to control volume on track with A-H faders the fader slides up and down ( if i have the midi button pressed in) on the Apple program but does not control volume on recording. Using knobs for fading and panning when I mix on Logic was the whole reason for buying this thing.

[djmukilteo]

Originally Posted by SteveGN

Need Help


Problem one - My keyboard is not acting as a midi keyboard with my Apple logic midi instrument plug-ins, it did with my PreSonus firewire. I have been told by Apple it is because there is no midi in - is this fact?

Problem two - When I try to control volume on track with A-H faders the fader slides up and down ( if i have the midi button pressed in) on the Apple program but does not control volume on recording. Using knobs for fading and panning when I mix on Logic was the whole reason for buying this thing.

There's no MIDI interface on the ZED for keyboards etc....you'll need a separate MIDI interface for those.
The ZED only has the MIDI out connector on the back for transmitting (sending) the ZED MIDI control data from the board into your DAW when you're not using the FW cable method. (Page 24 in the manual)
There is no MIDI pan control on the ZED.
You could probably map the extra rotary knobs on the ZED and use the "learn" function, but haven't seen that done yet.
The manual has all of the functions and MIDI maps on Pages 39-40.

[spiral]

Originally Posted by SteveGN

faders the fader slides up and down ( if i have the midi button pressed in) on the Apple program but does not control volume on recording.

This is true for nearly any analog mixer. If the fader is post input, you should control your input gain at the input (mic pre or line in level). The block diagram shows the fader completely after the ADC/DAC stage so you will have to control your gain at the input. (i'm still waiting on my Zed-R so someone correct me if i'm wrong)

Originally Posted by SteveGN

Using knobs for fading and panning when I mix on Logic was the whole reason for buying this thing.

I've always viewed the Zed-R16 as more of an analog mixer with awesome converter and a "nice to have" midi add-on, not a control surface that also has conversion.

It sounds like you might be better off with something like the M-Audio ProjectMix or Mackie's Mackie Control Universal. Those are far more robust in terms of hands on control of your mixes. The ProjectMix also has audio input but my impressions of it (based on opinions on this board) is that the conversion quality is not the #1 strong suit of the ProjectMix. Many people still like it as a control surface though.