A&H Zed R16 Firewire Mixer

[teeco]

It's in the mag but you can download the review for a small fee from their website.

[mars]

Very interesting board - checked it out at the AES. I had the pleasure of owning a GS3000 back in 99/00 and even then they were talking about doing the MIDI controller option. I'm planning to use this board in a classroom situation as I believe it will be an excellent learning tool. At the AES I was told no Pro Tools support though - can anyone confirm? Also, as it comes bundled with Sonar LE, anyone knows how well this runs on a Mac under Boot Camp or Parallels?

Originally Posted by AlienHealth

Hi all,

The ZED-R16 does not have motorised faders – the black knobbed faders are part of the MIDI machine control section of the mixer, for controlling the sequencer. To include motorised faders would have added around £1000 to the price, which would have changed its market quite significantly. (Here in the UK, the RRP is £1819 inc. VAT. )

It would be cool to have motor faders as an optional upgrade.

[jonnathaniel]

just read the review. nice. I'm probably buying this one soon. I still think they should ditch the 4 midi faders and replaced them with group faders, even if not AD/DA enabled.

[sirthought]

Originally Posted by jonnathaniel

just read the review. nice. I'm probably buying this one soon. I still think they should ditch the 4 midi faders and replaced them with group faders, even if not AD/DA enabled.

I am completely inexperienced at programming midi functions, but I wonder... could you program those four midi faders to be group faders with in some kind of software (Sonar, Cubase, etc.)? Then you could use it as a live board if you brought along a lap top, perhaps. Just a thought.

I think that midi section could be very powerful. This isn't aimed for live use as much as studio, but in their manual they show clear set up options for using it for live sound.

I would really love to hear one of these.

[s o l v e n t]

i read the review, and it sounds excellent... there are definitely a handful of features that i'm bummed about (no subs and no aux returns being at the top of the list), but i would be willing to look past those because of some of the great things that this board has going for it -- it would just be perfect for my workflow....

the only thing stopping me from buying it right now, is that i need some kind of ballpark idea of what kind of AD/DA quality it has... SOS say that the AD/DA sounds "great" or whatever, but then they say that about just about every AD/DA, don't they? i mean unless it's some entry-level $150 M-Audio unit where they'd instead say "sounds good for the money"

i'd really love to know approx which quality range of AD/DA this fits... in the MOTU/Presonus range? or better? -- RME? entry-level Apogee (Ensemble/Duet)?

[tubeydude]

It looks like the stereo channels serve as aux returns. There is a couple of studio diagrams on the zed site that shows this...not labeled as aux returns, but looks useful.

I hope so anyway, a lack of functional returns would certainly be a bummer...

I guess you can also us some of the 4 auxes as s sub of sorts...

I am still waiting to hear a real world review...anxiously.

[tomeford]

Have been trialing this desk for the last few days and have mixed emotions.

First of all, the bundled software has got me puzzled.
It only supports up to 8 audio streams. So i have downloaded a 30 day trial of sonar 7 which is working great.
Why they would bundle with software which doesn't make the most of the console is beyond me. I guess they want more money from people upgrading.

The sound of the console is great. Mic pre's are good and EQ is great.
It seems to be a top quality analog desk.

It took a while to find a set up which worked and in the end this is what I came up with.

I wanted to do mixing in sonar controlled with desk.

digital sends post eq so I can make most of EQ on mic inputs.
all channels in sonar to master output. so i am listening to master mix of sonar.
Sends on each channel in sonar to the respective digital output.
This makes every channel come back in to the desk as if it were an inline console with mic and return lines. This makes the "dig post eq" button effectively a flip button for aux sends.

with button pressed in aux send will be from digital return.
with button up aux send will be from mic line.
I did this to avoid the latency in monitoring while recording.
works great!! by far my favorite feature of the desk.

latency sounds like it is around 20ms (alright, but noticable)

i then have all faders as midi controllers.

The midi control section is quite handy too giving me control of pans and plugins however it would be really nice if there were a select button on each fader or at least a pan.

I'm finding myself using the mouse alot still and just making small adjustments on the faders. Not having motorized faders is causing some issues as you would expect... especially if i create any groups in sonar.
Faders are small but i dont seem to mind. they are very responsive and smooth. not the greatest feeling things to get your hands on but they do the job.

It is getting very close to being an all in one package.
A 24ch version would really get my attention. (especially with midi pans and select on each channel..)

add to all this the stereo ins to have my different playback devices hooked up, the 2 studio feeds for monitor mixes and the CRM/alt crm main outputs and it really is very nearly everything you need.

[s o l v e n t]

Originally Posted by tubeydude

It looks like the stereo channels serve as aux returns. There is a couple of studio diagrams on the zed site that shows this...not labeled as aux returns, but looks useful.

oh yeah, those can def be used as Aux returns... it's just that i'd want to use those stereo channels for other things, but they'd have to be sacrificed for Aux returns

Originally Posted by tubeydude

I guess you can also us some of the 4 auxes as s sub of sorts...

that doesn't work for me... i need at least 4 aux send/returns for FX... i would really prefer 6-8 in fact, but i can live with 4

Originally Posted by tubeydude

I am still waiting to hear a real world review...anxiously.

well if you're anxious -- soundonsound.com

[LSProductions]

"The sound of the console is great. Mic pre's are good and EQ is great.
It seems to be a top quality analog desk."

Do you feel your mix(s) "sound" better bringing the tracks back through the Zed, than if you mixed it all itb?

I currently mix itb, and most times I'll insert some analog gear(cubase 4). The ability to insert analog pieces into my itb mix really makes a difference in my "sound", as it were,..but for the higher price, the Zed would have to impart an above average "sonic mojo" for me to give serious consideration.

The other features seem pretty flexable. I don't like the fact that I can only use the digital ins and outs at 44.1 . I sometimes will track a 88.2, but use a Benchmark adc-1 to go back into cubase, bypassing my firepods converters. With the Zed, it looks like I could only use the adc-1 at 44.1 .. and I do like the unit, especially at 88.2k.

At any rate, I'm still considering it, as I do need to expand to 16 channels. So any more you could offer as to the difference you believe it can make in an otherwise in the box mix, would be greatly appreciated.

[datsound]

hi

i bought the zed r16
it works great when i use it analog
i also installed the drivers which u have to download from a&h homepage
all this works good and fast
i also recorded 12 channels at once it works good but when i want to play audiofiles out of my pc it sounds like 2bit and i`m still searching since 2 weeks the problem i tried it in the shop i bought it on a mac there where no problems the technical support also couldnt give me a helpful answer

so maybe one of u can help me

maybe i need another fw card for my pc??

i have one onboard fw400 -> with this my pc tell me: cant open asio driver

when i use the fw400 pci-card it works but it sounds like 2bit

[tomeford]

I have just tried an analog mix on the r16.
It wasn't the most inspiring experience of my life.
Mainly for the lack of metering. An optional meter bridge would be nice.

That aside i was able to pull a good sound in a veyr short time.
EQ is perticularly good and I think the general sound of the desk will stand up to much more expensive consoles.
Another small thing is that its quite difficult to see when your faders are at unity.

For recording I am absolutely loving this desk.
For mixing... its not exciting me yet.
I would mich rather mix ITB on a digi 003 factory or something like that.
or if mixing analog... anything with more metering and better faders.

Its going back next monday so if anyone has anything they want me to try out let me know ASAP.

[tubeydude]

I've got some Q's before it goes back...now that you've had a bit of time to check it out...

How stable are the drivers?
What round trip latency are you getting?
Talk about how the pre's sound.
Did you mess with the midi faders?
How was the transport control?
How was the monitoring section?

Any other thoughts? Worth the price?

[datsound]

i also have some q`s:

u installed it on a pc or a mac? (which fwcard u use in the pc)
the dig outs are working with no problems?

about the transport control - i tried it - it worked good at the first try
the shortest latency i could choose was about 20ms but how i said the output dont works correct
in the midi control section u are free to configurate every fader knob or button by yourself no templates to find

and i also like the eq`s - sound really good and very flexible

ah yeah i got it for 2390€ (in vienna) so when everything works correct i think its a good price

bye the way - sorry my english isnt the best

[tomeford]

I have it installed on a core 2 duo 2gb ram XP x32 machine. (onboard firewire)

I did have issues with drivers stopping.. but due to my lack of familiarality in sonar I didn't realise I had drivers set to WDM.. once changed to ASIO I have not had a single drop out or crash.
Bundled software (sonar le 6) only supports 8 audio streams so you need to upgrade to 7. So remember that added expense.

Round trip latency is at 23ms. very stable. Latency is a non issue for me with this desk because you can monitor off mic line so easily. and change back to dig return with one button.

Pres I am very pleased with. Nice depth and clarity.
vastly better than the Ramsa DA7 I am using at the moment.
I believe they are pretty much top of the line A&H pres.
They definately sound like they could be.

Midi faders are nice and responsive... seems instant.
They are however very small and dont feel very nice.
transport control works fine. simple set up and does what i want.

monitoring is very very cool.
2 "studio monitor feed" which can be fed via aux sends or master L/R are making life very easy with this desk.
especially having all digital returns coming up on the desk as individual channels. mixing monitors on the pots of the console is just so much easier to keep track of than mixing ITB. absolutely love it!!
There is 2 CRM outs which can easily be switched which I am not using but is a cool feature if you have 2 sets of speaker in your control room.
Talk back is also working well.

MIDI section can all be configured exactly how you want it to be
Takes a bit to figure out the set up but it is very stable once going.
I haven't found a template as of yet which could help get the most out of it, but i've been able to set it up pretty much how i want it to be. faders controlling track and bus volume.. rotaries controlling pans and send levels, buttons solo and change banks.

All dig ins and outs have been stable for me. I have had 14 outs and 2 ins going at the same time with no glitching.

I'm thinking it is well worth the money. But as i've said before its not quite an all in one console with the fairly laim unmotorized faders and lack of metering.

I might wait a while to see what allen and heath come up with next or to see what competition this console brings out of other brands.

Buying this console would be sort of like buying the first Iphone...
Its really cool but you know there will be something better soon wether from the same brand or not.

only got 3 hours left with the desk so any more questions better come in soon.

[s o l v e n t]

Originally Posted by tomeford

only got 3 hours left with the desk so any more questions better come in soon.

hi... all that i'm really interested in knowing right now is the quality of the AD/DA convertors. what convertors have you been using in the past and how did these compare? thanks!

[s o l v e n t]

Originally Posted by LSProductions

I don't like the fact that I can only use the digital ins and outs at 44.1 . I sometimes will track a 88.2, but use a Benchmark adc-1 to go back into cubase, bypassing my firepods converters. With the Zed, it looks like I could only use the adc-1 at 44.1 .. and I do like the unit, especially at 88.2k.

if it makes any difference, the dig ins/outs also work at 48.

for a while i was recording everything @ 96, but now i'm recording @ 48... i remember reading something on here, i think it was one of the main guys from Mercenary Audio, suggesting that the quality of the convertors is so much more important than the sample rate... and i'm a firm believer of this! i had an Apogee Ensemble for a while, and the stuff that i recorded on that @ 44.1 sounds SO MUCH BETTER than what i've recorded on my RME FF400 @ 96........ so what i'm saying is, i'm sure that your ADC-1 will still sound fantastic @ 48.

[s o l v e n t]

Originally Posted by tomeford

I might wait a while to see what allen and heath come up with next or to see what competition this console brings out of other brands.

Buying this console would be sort of like buying the first Iphone...
Its really cool but you know there will be something better soon wether from the same brand or not.

i watched a demo video of the R16 online, and the A&H rep was asked if there are any plans for different sizes of this board... he said that if the board turns out to be a success (which it will likely be, he said based on all indications), then A&H would definitely develop some larger consoles in this format

that sounds like quite a long time off though...

[jeronimo]

Where did you guys get your R16s?

[teeco]

I'm in the same camp as those wanting to have real world comparision to other converters with in depth discriptions off the sound. Sound on Sound miss the boat here.It's all very well saying it sounds fantastic but they did'nt go deep enough for me like did the otb summing sound better than itb,did the sound off a large mix hold up well.To me it's when the track counts builds up is when the soundstage starts to shrink and goes from 3d to 2d and it's that that seperates the Lavry's, Prism's, Apogee's etc from the run of the mill converters.Adding a couple of nice colured Pre's and a great versatile comp could make this the bassis of a really great small studio and live mixer but my gut feeling say's the 16 channels off AD/DA on this won't be in the same class as 16 channels off AD/DA off something like Apogee or Lynx if you look at the price at £1500 discounted in the UK on the net that would'nt even buy you 8 channel off those above mentioned converters.I really want this badly to be really good, it seems to tick most off the right boxes but i'm holding back until i here some real comparisions.

[jeronimo]

Do you have any doubt that those converters are below Apogee and Lynx quality???
C´mon...

[s o l v e n t]

Originally Posted by jeronimo

Do you have any doubt that those converters are below Apogee and Lynx quality???
C´mon...

yeah that would be expecting too much... i mean, that is the product that i want, and i would pay in the $4000-5000 neighbourhood for this board if the convertors were even on the Apogee Ensemble level.

i'm hoping that they will be of comparible quality to RME. even if they are on the level of MOTU, i will still consider..... if they are on the M-Audio, or Mackie Onyx FW card level, forget it

[awediohead]

Not understanding something here –

AlienHealth wrote: At the moment there is no clock source hardware switch, so the ZED-R16 will be the master clock source unless changed using the FireWire connection from a computer, so you can either sync from the ADAT out on ZED-R or tell it to sync from ADAT in using the FireWire connection.

That "at the moment" is intriguing!

My question is would it be possible to slave the onboard clock to a high quality external master clock, despite the absence of word clock, i/o via Firewire with something like the Big Ben?

BIG BEN has an expansion slot for the optional X-FireWire card. With the X-FireWire card installed, BIG BEN can synchronize digital devices that provide inadequate clock signals such as keyboards, synth modules and other FireWire based devices to provide a stable, well synchronized environment for your entire studio.

Personally I'm pretty sure I'd be happy enough with the AD DA as standard, at least for the time being. But it would be good to have a clear upgrade path available - especially with SO much AD DA conversion going on inside this box and it being unreasonable to expect top class conversion / clocking at this price point.

cheers

[datsound]

so i fixed the problem with dig output !!

i had to download a "firewire hotfix patch" and installed this to my pc

now it works !!

at the end i got the helping answer from "klangfarbe" where i bought it

also allen & heath send me helpful answer!

its important to check the chipset on fw: best VIA, (NEC or texas instruments should also work good)

these problems are often with any fw-audio interfaces!!

[datsound]

oh sorry a&h tell me: the NEC FireWire cards be avoided!!

[Trance183]

After a couple of months of research. This machine has everything I need. I guess i'm not the pro people were hoping for but I could care less about motorized faders. I ordered it a couple of weeks ago and it should be arriving in next week. Can't wait to start building tracks and mixes. I will try to answer any questions for those who still want to know more.

According to A&H the pre's on this console are the best they make. And that the 4 Midi Dedicated Faders can double as GROUP SUBS for live grouping so that helps. (I made a mistake in comparing other consoles. The 4 Midi Dedicated Faders do not assign Group Subs. But it is possible when using your software to assign SUBS for live mixing using these 4 midi faders.)

This is the best solution out there. And as for future versions of this model, a 24ch would have been nice. But 16ch is perfect for my first real home studio console. Couldn't ask for more. I can barely keep my ass in my pants waiting.

I'm still new to GS but I will attempt to post original wav files using only the built in pre's on the console. As well as testing out the EQs. Can't wait!!!

FYI: I purchased this for exactly $2700 United States dollars including tax!

[awediohead]

Originally Posted by Trance183

After a couple of months of research. This machine has everything I need. I guess i'm not the pro people were hoping for but I could care less about motorized faders. I ordered it a couple of weeks ago and it should be arriving in next week. Can't wait to start building tracks and mixes. I will try to answer any questions for those who still want to know more.

According to A&H the pre's on this console are the best they make. And that the 4 Midi Dedicated Faders can double as GROUP SUBS for live grouping so that helps.

This is the best solution out there. And as for future versions of this model, a 24ch would have been nice. But 16ch is perfect for my first real home studio console. Couldn't ask for more. I can barely keep my ass in my pants waiting.

I'm still new to GS but I will attempt to post original wav files using only the built in pre's on the console. As well as testing out the EQs. Can't wait!!!

FYI: I purchased this for exactly $2700 United States dollars including tax!

Hey congrats Trance - I'm very seriously considering one of these too. Like you I'm not bothered about the motorised faders, or much about their size, which is another complaint some folks have.

What I'm not clear on is how you might use an external clock with this thing at 96kHz when connected via Firewire to your DAW. As I read the manual at 96kHz you only have 16 channels and no ADAT i/o which makes it tricky to see how you could use ADAT to run an external clock should you want to - of course there's no word clock i/o either . . .

I don't expect the convertors on this to be stellar - not at this price point, so I'm guessing the option of an external clock "upgrade" would be beneficial to its overall ADC . . . I may be being too picky, but I do like to have upgradeability and expandibility kinda built in to pieces of gear that I hope to be using for years to come. Just a concern I'd greatly appreciate one of the A&H guys chiming in on if possible.

cheers

[sirthought]

Originally Posted by Trance183

FYI: I purchased this for exactly $2700 United States dollars including tax!

Congrats on the purchase. We'll be curious to hear your reactions once you've spent some time with it.

Do you mind sharing with us where you bought it for this price?

[jeronimo]

Originally Posted by sirthought

Congrats on the purchase. We'll be curious to hear your reactions once you've spent some time with it.

Do you mind sharing with us where you bought it for this price?

I´m curious too

[tubeydude]

Me too. I would like to hear some un-biased and real world reviews of the unit...from people that have paid for them.

[Trance183]

Good ole' local Guitar Center. They didn't have any of the ZED models on display or in stock. My buddy salesman told me they don't carry any ZEDs they just special order them. When I asked about the R16 he told me he had never heard of it. He only knew and sold all other ZED models except the ZED R16. He asked all the other employees and neither knew it existed. He looked it up and was blown away by all the features. And the other salesmen were shocked as well. I made a special order and have been waiting ever since. According to him it shows that it will arrive Nov. 11th.

Now do understand I also bought accessories such as cables, stands, a couple of condensers, and a workstation. But the receipt shows the ZEDR16 as $2,691.00 with tax included. Guys this thing has alot more to offer than the Yamaha series I compared it to. Its worth every penny. Now patiently I wait. Of course there are better consoles out there but I don't have 10k laying around under sofas and chairs.