A&H Zed R16 Firewire Mixer

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by MartinHB

I DEMAND you read the entire thread

Im pretty sure you know you cant use it as your Pro Tools audio interface, but I think your meaning some sort of adat system? Cant help you there, not clued up in that area.

No, I'm not using adats themselves, just Protools HD with 16 channels of Digi and Apogee conversion What I would like to do with a mixer is this: Be able to send 16 channels out of Protools, either analog or digital, to the board and submix that to 2 channels which I will send back to PT. ALSO, I would like the option of accessing the R16 via channel inserts on Protools. In the same way I might insert an analog compressor, I would like to insert a channel strip from the R16. This would mean going to an individual channel, and then coming out of that channel back into PT. Could this be done digitally? I think I have an ADAT interface lying around somewhere.

Thanks,
R

[MartinHB]

Originally Posted by RKrizman

No, I'm not using adats themselves, just Protools HD with 16 channels of Digi and Apogee conversion What I would like to do with a mixer is this: Be able to send 16 channels out of Protools, either analog or digital, to the board and submix that to 2 channels which I will send back to PT. ALSO, I would like the option of accessing the R16 via channel inserts on Protools. In the same way I might insert an analog compressor, I would like to insert a channel strip from the R16. This would mean going to an individual channel, and then coming out of that channel back into PT. Could this be done digitally? I think I have an ADAT interface lying around somewhere.

Thanks,
R

Ok if Im reading this correctly


Pro tools ind outs to 16 to Zed inputs. Summed channels recorded back to PT's as stereo mix. Yes you can totally do that. Thats pretty much the reason I bought it

I have picked you up right, right?

Still not sure about the second part your asking about. Perhaps Krafty could comment on that one as he uses the adat and I never have.


In your situation Im not sure how much benefit you would get from the mixer over a straight analog one. Part of its appeal is the integration of the whole thing with just one firewire cable handling all the digital ins an douts. My thing was about sending VST synths (and audio tracks) reord them all back to my daw in Stereo or to individual tracks. You can do that of course through your ins outs on your interfaces, but your sort of lose some of the big points of the mixer.

Your obviously not the new kid on the block and Ive probably picked you up wrong as your question seems quite basic ( the part about analog ind outs) . Im probably out of my depth in what your asking

[RKrizman]

Here's a shorter version of the question. Does the firewire interface enable direct outs from the individual channels, and is there a way to use the digital interface with Pro Tools?

-R

[lovekrafty]

Originally Posted by RKrizman

Here's a shorter version of the question. Does the firewire interface enable direct outs from the individual channels, and is there a way to use the digital interface with Pro Tools?

-R

Yes the firewire has 16 discreet i/o channels one for each channel strip
+ 2 I/O's for the master buss + 8 additional ADAT I/O's .

As far as protools goes, I don't use it but if you had 2 ADAT lightpipe
I/O's in you rig you could run 16 channels of ADAT lightpipe in ADAT mode
unfortunately you would'nt have access to the master buss and you'd
be limited to max 24/48k

Unless digidesign supported the R-16's drivers ( which I doubt will happen ) This probably would not an ideal interface for protools

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by lovekrafty

Yes the firewire has 16 discreet i/o channels one for each channel strip
+ 2 I/O's for the master buss + 8 additional ADAT I/O's .

As far as protools goes, I don't use it but if you had 2 ADAT lightpipe
I/O's in you rig you could run 16 channels of ADAT lightpipe in ADAT mode
unfortunately you would'nt have access to the master buss and you'd
be limited to max 24/48k

Unless digidesign supported the R-16's drivers ( which I doubt will happen ) This probably would not an ideal interface for protools

Thanks.

-R

[ainternational]

Originally Posted by cybeross

So... Has anyone commented on the "anologue mojo" factor of this yet? Is it primarily clean, or does it add warmth and smooth things out?
ross

Just a wee update - have been happily working with my Zed R16 for some months now. Initial troubles smoothed out - had to find the correct sequence for powering up my Magma PCI chassis, G5 and the Zed R16 (had some terrible teething problems, though to be fair some were down to PCI and firewire bus power issues, some down to adding Powercore to my set up and some the Zed R).

This desk has opened up my mixes - like going from a 20 year-old TV to Hi Def widescreen - it doesn't add colour itself (buy a tube desk for that), but it does have that classy analogue mojo. The creative result of physical interaction with sound is worth the admission price alone. I went ITB for the convenience of total recall, and pretty much in the same way that I stopped using supermarkets for buying meat and veg products some years ago and went back to using specialists (ie butchers/farm shops etc) because of quality over convenience, the same applies here. Music making is about quality over convenience: there's nothing convenient about soldering cables to build a patchbay, but it's worth the effort.

The way this desk has been designed is IMHO approaching genius - the simple interplay between the analogue and digital domain makes this not only a powerful tool, but also a joy to work with. The quality of the converters means I have no qualms about bouncing the stems of mixes down for future tweaking (partial recall?!). The fun I'm having with outboard rather than plugins is liberating.

The inserts, wired to my patchbay work as direct outs. I really miss SIP though.

In short - this desk is the best thing that's happened to me musically for at least a decade...

Niggle: I'm finding I want my aux sends to be post fader/eq - maybe Mike could post instructions on how to achieve that...

Are the new drivers for mac users as well Mike?

[cybeross]

MartinHB, ainternational,

Thanks a lot for the great feedback! It certainly has helped my consideration significantly. It would seem that we can all agree that this unit is excellent for what it is (which perhaps few, if any, others in this category can say). I think that *creatively* speaking, it will be wonderful for me to have that physical control, no doubt about it -- i'm sold on OTB already!

Of course, it seems like the EQ are "clean" and possibly not "great" eqs, but very good, and potentially all the features on this box as well. I think I have to do some serious searching as to whether or not I want that tube sound you mentioned, since it costs so much more. I have heard from top producers, that the tube sound brings a warmth (that you can hear!), so I wonder if this unit is something I'll be replacing down the road, or if it can really serve a purpose for as many years as the SOS review indicated (was it 20?! )

In any case, seems I can't go wrong with this purchase, my last dilemma, is how much more "right" am I willing to pay for--especially since it might mean more than 3x the price...


Again, thanks all for the info. This thread has convinced me several times over of how great this product is!

[cybeross]

one more thing...

I have read MANY rave reviews comparing the midas venice eq / sound to even an SSL... No one has made such ssl comparisons here...

Is the sound of the midas venice better? Especially the eqs, etc?

[sparkyness]

Originally Posted by lovekrafty

Hey guys.

Just wanted to give you a heads up , I've spent a quiet evening home, test driving the newest drivers 4.3.1 with the newest Firmware 1.2
Under Vista 64

Might be a bit premature but they seem to be solid now !

still a couple of minor issues but definetly a step up.?

Are these drivers available for download? Nothing new on the A&H site last time I checked.

[lovekrafty]

Not yet , I got them from Mike
I'm one of the few here running Vista 64, so he's interested in what I
discover, I could forward them to you in you PM me with your e-mail
address.

Cheers
LK

[Joe_Scumbag]

A bit off topic, but due to moving to a smaller house, I'm forced (with pain in the heart) to sell my ZED R16. PM me...

[shootingsparks]

i also want to say the sound of the channels, and mix bus is fantastic. at least as good as my old mackie 24x8. here ia few comments i'd like to share

- some people are asking to remove the preamps, and i kind of understand the concept, but the mixer is great sounding with them. please keep them!

- db25 input/outputs would make connection to a patch bay much cleaner, running 16 1/4" cables is not enjoyable...

- can't monitor adat input without running my computer & DAW - ability control of the clock without a computer, in other words i'd like to be able to change adat/internal clock from a button. also ability to route adat input (group 1 & group 2) to the master bus. maybe buttons would be good near the CRM knob.

- tips &tricks to use the midi would be great, i.e. recommendations for ableton,reason,samplitude,nuendo,vegas...

thanks and goodnight...

[ainternational]

Originally Posted by cybeross

MartinHB, ainternational,

Of course, it seems like the EQ are "clean" and possibly not "great" eqs, but very good, and potentially all the features on this box as well. I think I have to do some serious searching as to whether or not I want that tube sound you mentioned, since it costs so much more. I have heard from top producers, that the tube sound brings a warmth (that you can hear!), so I wonder if this unit is something I'll be replacing down the road, or if it can really serve a purpose for as many years as the SOS review indicated (was it 20?! )

The EQ is very usable indeed - capable, with overlapping frequencies and fully-parametric on the two mid bands - I don't want my main desk eq to be overly imparting 'character' - I have other outboard units for that - it does exactly what it should - far more intuitively and musically than most plug-in eqs.

If you want tube warmth (and often I do) then take the money you're saving by buying an R16, rather than say a TLA, and find yourself some outboard that can add it when required - but have a desk with pres/eq that allows whatever you record to shine through - versatility being the key to longterm usefulness. I considered the TLA, and several others - all much pricier than the R16 - and have not regretted chossing this desk once, though I will be upgrading to the R24 when it's released. Not seen the Midas before, looks interesting, but I doubt it offers the flexibility and convenience of having a firewire audio interface built in?

[CharlesCola]

Hi,

Would it be possible for someone to post a mix done on the R16 using the R16 DA?

This would be really great....

Thanks.

[sparkyness]

Originally Posted by lovekrafty

Not yet , I got them from Mike
I'm one of the few here running Vista 64, so he's interested in what I
discover, I could forward them to you in you PM me with your e-mail
address.

Cheers
LK

PM sent....thanks for this.

[lovekrafty]

Originally Posted by sparkyness

PM sent....thanks for this.

They're in your e-mail

Cheers
LK

[MartinHB]

Originally Posted by ainternational

Niggle: I'm finding I want my aux sends to be post fader/eq - maybe Mike could post instructions on how to achieve that...

Are the new drivers for mac users as well Mike?

I really cant stand that theres four aux sends but only two of the post fade. I know some people use pre fade sends but Ive not heard anyone (pretty much ever) say thet prefer them.

2 aux sends is just not happening. I look at those other two redundant ones and think WHY. Was this for the live band market? Do small home studio setups still use pre fade semds for artist mixes? I can think of a lot better ways to send signals to artist headphones. If I were a vocalist or guitar player I wouldnt want a dry/zero eq dull mix in my headphones, I would want to hear it liek a records. Is that just me?

They can be changed (I heard) but requires a soldering iron on every channel. Something I cant do. That would require me sending the desk back to A+H. Quite a hassle.

To omit a switch for pre/post was a bad move. I just cannot fathom the thinking behind that one. Seems so obvious to add that.

[MartinHB]

Originally Posted by shootingsparks

i also want to say the sound of the channels, and mix bus is fantastic. at least as good as my old mackie 24x8. here ia few comments i'd like to share

No way man , The Zed is way better than the Mackie. Im not being fanboy joe here.

[Mertmo]

Well, I did it. Sprung for a ZED 24, should have it by mid next week!!

This mixer is the perfect size and has the perfect feature set for me right now. I would
love to have 2 sweepable mids on this board, but you can't have everything for 700 bucks, right? I couldn't justify
the added cost of going with a 420 for just that band of EQ. And I didn't really want
busses, etc. Just 16x2 with 4 stereo channels thrown in... perfect.

I was slightly torn between this and some older, cooler mixer... but since I had half of
this thing paid for in the form of store credit at my regular gear store, I figured it was a
cheap way to serve my immediate needs and check out the A & H vibe. Never mixed
on one before, so if I like it maybe I will get a ZED R24 in the future or some other
fancier A & H, like the one with the dual tube preamps built in (forget the model...)

Just wanted to say thanks again Mike for the answers, and to everyone else for a great
thread. Excited to be stepping into some A & H goodness!

[shootingsparks]

hi there, i was checking the a&h website, maybe I'm missing something but the latest I can find is v3.3.2?

Originally Posted by lovekrafty

Hey guys.

Just wanted to give you a heads up , I've spent a quiet evening home, test driving the newest drivers 4.3.1 with the newest Firmware 1.2
Under Vista 64

Might be a bit premature but they seem to be solid now !

still a couple of minor issues but definetly a step up.


Is anybody on this thread running Vista 64
and uses Sound Forge 9.0?

[cybeross]

Mertmo2,

Excellent! Please post your results + opinions after you've spent some time with your new toy...

As to the previous post, I believe the drivers in question are "beta beta" as in, exclusively sent via PM and not (yet) publicly available...

I'm sure if you send lovekrafty or mike a line, they'll help you get what you're looking for.

[Mertmo]

will do, cyberross. hopefully some pics, too! I'm pretty excited, a totally new rig!
I was thinking ADATs until I can afford an HD24XR, but I am also excited about giving
Reaper a shot, configured as a "tape deck". So far it looks promising, it sees my 003
interface no problem. Learning something new could be a good thing. I'm getting sick
of PT. And the ADAT's... hmmm, them not sound so good in comparison to the
computer rig!

Anyway, I'll post back with a review and pics!!

[sparkyness]

Originally Posted by lovekrafty

Hey guys.

Just wanted to give you a heads up , I've spent a quiet evening home, test driving the newest drivers 4.3.1 with the newest Firmware 1.2
Under Vista 64

Might be a bit premature but they seem to be solid now !

still a couple of minor issues but definetly a step up.

Just tested these in Vista 64 and ASIO DAW appears to be ok but WDM operation is still problematic for me when playing audio files in Foobar or WMP and experiencing drop-out problems. If I open another application or do anything that requires minor CPU usage, audio drops out for a second then resumes. Doesn't appear to do the same thing if I'm working with the ASIO drivers in Cubase though but I hate the thought of tracking a great take and the ZED craps out for a brief second though. I'll be sticking with XP32 for now.

Irritating considering the drivers work perfectly in XP32 but just don't seem to be anywhere near as solid in Vista 64. RME have had solid Vista 64 drivers for years, so don't know why this can't get sorted by TC.

[Mege]

Is there a chance we can get some scribble strips on the Zed R-24?

[Kvesper]

Originally Posted by lovekrafty

Not yet , I got them from Mike
I'm one of the few here running Vista 64, so he's interested in what I
discover, I could forward them to you in you PM me with your e-mail
address.

Cheers
LK

Will these work for Win 7 as well? I use a triple boot of XP, Vista64, and Win 7 64.

Thanks
-Kris

[lovekrafty]

Originally Posted by Kvesper

Will these work for Win 7 as well? I use a triple boot of XP, Vista64, and Win 7 64.

Thanks
-Kris

Check out the drivers and let us know, what OS is the most stable.

[stripey]

Has anyone from A&H (i.e. Mike!) posted the instructions - either here or elsewhere - as to how to convert the FX sends to four post-fader auxes? That's the only way I'd need to use them for mixing, nothing else.

Also, I gather it's an inside job, but I don't know one end of a soldering iron from the other. How complex is it, does it void the warranty and can the process be easily reversed?

By the way, are the four sends all stereo? I have one mono reverb unit and was wondering how best to hook that up for select channels. I'd have one stereo reverb/delay unit, a mono-mono reverb and hopefully a couple of guitar FX pedals (mono) available as well, via a Little Labs reamp box.

Is this possible on the R16, assuming the post-fader soldering has been done right? What's the total channel count for sends - four stereo or eight mono?

Thanks to EVERYONE that's contributed to this thread! It's the single greatest resource on the Zed R16 on the whole goddamn internet!

[lovekrafty]

Originally Posted by stripey

Has anyone from A&H (i.e. Mike!) posted the instructions - either here or elsewhere - as to how to convert the FX sends to four post-fader auxes? That's the only way I'd need to use them for mixing, nothing else.

Also, I gather it's an inside job, but I don't know one end of a soldering iron from the other. How complex is it, does it void the warranty and can the process be easily reversed?

By the way, are the four sends all stereo? I have one mono reverb unit and was wondering how best to hook that up for select channels. I'd have one stereo reverb/delay unit, a mono-mono reverb and hopefully a couple of guitar FX pedals (mono) available as well, via a Little Labs reamp box.

Is this possible on the R16, assuming the post-fader soldering has been done right? What's the total channel count for sends - four stereo or eight mono?

Thanks to EVERYONE that's contributed to this thread! It's the single greatest resource on the Zed R16 on the whole goddamn internet!

If you have no soldering experience , don't do it !
I had to fix an issue on my R-16 because a couple of grounding resistors did'nt make it on the circuit board. Mike gave me the option because, in my line of work I solder stuff all the time, and the warranty was'nt voided.

I think it would be on a case by case basis but I would'nt recommend it,
saying that the Aux send mod Mike said would be possible is probably
not an easy one and would probably need to be done by a bench tech.

No info has been posted about this mod.

The R-16 has 4 mono auxes ( FX send/returns ) to get stereo you use 2 mono auxes

Cheers
LK

[stripey]

Hmm. I see. So if I don't do the soldering bit, I've only got enough S/R action for one stereo reverb unit, post fader. Is that right? That would be a bit rubbish.

A total of four is not a disaster, as that's my stereo reverb for two, my mono reverb and one other mono piece of gear (e.g. Red Witch Deluxe Moon Phaser, mmm... spacey) for a total of 4 auxes.

Why are two of the auxes pre fader? Is there any sensible way to use these during mixdown or are the majority of people wishing they were all post fader, like me? This mixer would be all about recording if I bought one, no live gig use whatsoever.

I'm absolutely ready to get something like the R16 and get on with recording, turning my back on ITB mixing for ever (I hope). But for that to really happen, I need my four FX busses at mixdown!

So it's technically possible, but it sounds like the solder thing is a point-of-no-return deal, what's done is done, que sera sera. Thanks for the warning, LK.

I wonder how close we are to an R16 MkII. Most of the wish list doesn't _seriously_ concern me, especially as I imagine it would push the price up by a couple of hundred quid, getting close to £2K - which is Toft ATB territory. Same goes for an R24 - that would surely have to be around £2K on account of the extra channels and new functionality people are calling for.

[lovekrafty]

Originally Posted by stripey

Hmm. I see. So if I don't do the soldering bit, I've only got enough S/R action for one stereo reverb unit, post fader. Is that right? That would be a bit rubbish.

A total of four is not a disaster, as that's my stereo reverb for two, my mono reverb and one other mono piece of gear (e.g. Red Witch Deluxe Moon Phaser, mmm... spacey) for a total of 4 auxes.

Why are two of the auxes pre fader? Is there any sensible way to use these during mixdown or are the majority of people wishing they were all post fader, like me? This mixer would be all about recording if I bought one, no live gig use whatsoever.

I'm absolutely ready to get something like the R16 and get on with recording, turning my back on ITB mixing for ever (I hope). But for that to really happen, I need my four FX busses at mixdown!

So it's technically possible, but it sounds like the solder thing is a point-of-no-return deal, what's done is done, que sera sera. Thanks for the warning, LK.

I wonder how close we are to an R16 MkII. Most of the wish list doesn't _seriously_ concern me, especially as I imagine it would push the price up by a couple of hundred quid, getting close to £2K - which is Toft ATB territory. Same goes for an R24 - that would surely have to be around £2K on account of the extra channels and new functionality people are calling for.

I too would like more auxes and post fader but it's not a big deal for me

I cut all of my aux effects to tracks anyway, then automate them.

I think the MK II is merely speculation at this point, I don't think Mike
has mentioned this and right now he's been busy on the R-24.

Considering what the R-24 will offer I doubt it will be less than 3000 quid
but that's just my speculation , it will be a major step up from the R-16

Cheers
LK