A&H Zed R16 Firewire Mixer

[MartinHB]

Hey Krafty, Yeah and they come in different colours. Gotta keep little Zed fit for his automation duties.

I wrote something here earlier on about some issues I was having with some questions for you. Turns out if I played a media file off the web (Film or something) then went and launched the Daw the Motu driver for my 828 would somehow switch its self back as the windows default driver even though I had set Zed Dice for those duites. Anyway, deleted that earlier message as Ive fixed the issue. I think this was the root of the Ableton Live issue as well.

[MartinHB]

Originally Posted by kkonkkrete

+1 on a version without mic pres --- I think SSL are onto something with the X-Desk.

I'd love to see a smaller (rackmountable) version too. Bring out a whole family from 8 - 32 channels!

But no EQ and they seem to be pushing it more as a summing box with faders. Im sure its a great analog path but I was looking for something with EQ, more traditional console. Would be great for someone looking for an analog summing box. As for me I treat desks as a fully fledged musical instrument. I need more than faders to make stuff happen during the heat of the moment. But everyones different of course

[lovekrafty]

Originally Posted by MartinHB

Hey Krafty, Yeah and they come in different colours. Gotta keep little Zed fit for his automation duties.

I wonder if you could answer a few questions. I had a day of issues which I wont bore you with.



What software you running
Are you, or have you ran the console using all the channels at the same time
what is your buffer set at
have you ever had any glitchy audio issues

Thanks in advance Krafty

Running Nuendo on Vista 64bit Quad Core

I have ran all channels just to test throughput,
I have also sent all channels to the R16 to check out summing.
but I keep 13-16 as dedicated effects channels for flying Effects in and out, the first 7 channels are kinda dedicated to Drum mikes, plus I have 3 outboard pres also plugged into dedicated channels.

I also have a Layla, use it via ADAT for 8 more I/O's
channel 1-2 are secondary monitors / aux for headphone mixes and have my surround outputs on Layla out's 3-8.

I also run a Liquidmix

I had oodles of issues initially , running on Vista 64 probably was'nt the smartest move. First thing I did was get a dedicated VIA firewirecard
( can't have both liquidmix and R16 on same firewire bus ).

I was still having problems with spontaneous drop-outs.
That's when I discovered my console was one with the missing firewire
grounding resistor issues, So Mike gave me instructions on how to do the solder blob fix, which I did, I also updated the firmware / drivers around the same time, one or the other fixed my issues.

Another thing I did that helped was disable the R16 as a windows system soundcard ( I use the Layla to listen to i-tunes etc.).

I was having issues with the R16 not being able to reset clock , was telling me another program was locking my DAW software out.

I currently run the R16 in safe mode 1 @ 512 buffer, was still having clicks and pops in normal mode, it runs stable now so I have'nt researched it any further. I suppose when the new drivers come out I'll see if I can get the buffer's down.

I still have issues in soundforge, when ever I open a 2-track with a different samplerate to a previous 2 track , I have to hit play / stop / play before it
reclocks.

I'm still running beta 64 bit drivers so I'm waiting for new drivers before I get into anymore screwing around/ time wasting trying to get faster performance, stability is more important to me.I've found work arounds for most of my issues but I think the drivers still have a ways to go hopefully these issues have been addressed.

Hope this helps
LK

[jonnathaniel]

the wait will be long, but im willing to suffer for a larger/better zed

[microwave]

Originally Posted by awediohead

Typical of my tendency towards indecisive sluttery I'm having a rethink about the 420 . . . can I clarify a few things from those of you that have the R16 please (or Mike)?



1) I have a Liquid4Pre . Would I be able to use this at 96kHz via ADAT with the R16 in FW mode and still have 16 + 2 channels of I/O all at 96kHz? That would be 4 channels from the L4Pre so one ADAT connection

The manual I downloaded CLEARLY states this is impossible as no ADAT channels are available over 48kHz, but I'm unclear about what current and future firmware updates may make possible. If this is being worked on and expected to become possible with future firmware updates then I'll be changing my 420 order to an R16!!

The manual also states:



So 22 channels at 96kHz - doubled for i/o = 44 should be technically possible?

But I'm probably missing something

Of course I could always use the analogue outs of the L4Pre into the R16, but it would be good to avoid another conversion. Or I could stay at a lower sample rate, but the L4Pre emulations seem to sound better at 96.

3) How are folks finding the R16 to work with on Mac's and specifically Logic Studio (8.02 in 10.5.6)? Is the MIDI learn working OK? Transport ok? Any limitations?

4) Does the pick up of the faders for using the R16 as a control surface working OK in Logic?

5) Anything else I should know?

cheers and sorry this is so long winded!

Everything works on both my Mac systems and I have not (touch wood) experienced the problems some other users have been reporting. Integration with Logic 8.0.2 is good, the transport works fine, I have noticed that Logic has a tendency to "forget" some of the midi mapping occasionally but I would hedge my bets that the responsibility there is with Logic rather than with the R-16. I dont think that the R-16 can replace a dedicated midi controller such as a Mackie or Euphonix unit but it was never meant to - the midi functionality is a welcome feature that can be made to be useful depending on how you work.
Higher sample rates over adat are possible if the hardware has a protocol called smux implemented, the R-16 doesn't have it but for me its no big deal - everything I do is either for the tv/ film market or for CD/ internet release and I rarely work at higher sample rates than 48. Should you need to work at 96 you can use it in stand alone mode which gives you 18 channels, not bad at all!
I dont use the main faders as midi controllers so I cant report on that. All I can say is that I was very worried about having short throw faders before I bought the unit, but the 60mm faders have such a lovely, positive action that I forget about them being "shorties". As i said before, the conversion quality is good - I've also been using, when mixing on a bigger board, the R-16 as a 16 channels DA converter alongside a FF800 (taking the signal from the insert outs via a semi normalized patch bay), and the audio is crystal clear.

What I do miss and I would like to see in a future incarnation:

1) Word clock. It was silly not to put it there and the next model just has to have it.
2) SPDIF I/O carrying channels 17 and 18. Very useful.
3) Balanced inserts on the stereo buss that can be switched in and out, a la TL Audio. Again, very useful.
4) Buttons to switch between mic and line inputs. I REALLY miss them to the point that I've given up using the line ins because of the constant repatching and use the (albeit unbalanced) patch bay insert ins instead.
5) the possibility of having 16 channels of adat rather than eight. This should be possible with a firmware update and it would make me (and I suspect many other users) very happy.
Anyway, as it stands nothing can touch the R-16 for functionality, sound quality and value for money. I have recently had a rack summing box - in a similar price range as the R-16 - in my little studio, and was left wondering on who would pay the same money for something with no analogue eq or mic preamps given that the quality of the summing was very similar.
Cheers!

[awediohead]

Originally Posted by microwave

Everything works on both my Mac systems and I have not (touch wood) experienced the problems some other users have been reporting. Integration with Logic 8.0.2 is good, the transport works fine, I have noticed that Logic has a tendency to "forget" some of the midi mapping occasionally but I would hedge my bets that the responsibility there is with Logic rather than with the R-16. I dont think that the R-16 can replace a dedicated midi controller such as a Mackie or Euphonix unit but it was never meant to - the midi functionality is a welcome feature that can be made to be useful depending on how you work.
Higher sample rates over adat are possible if the hardware has a protocol called smux implemented, the R-16 doesn't have it but for me its no big deal - everything I do is either for the tv/ film market or for CD/ internet release and I rarely work at higher sample rates than 48. Should you need to work at 96 you can use it in stand alone mode which gives you 18 channels, not bad at all!
I dont use the main faders as midi controllers so I cant report on that. All I can say is that I was very worried about having short throw faders before I bought the unit, but the 60mm faders have such a lovely, positive action that I forget about them being "shorties". As i said before, the conversion quality is good - I've also been using, when mixing on a bigger board, the R-16 as a 16 channels DA converter alongside a FF800 (taking the signal from the inserts out via a semi normalized patch bay), and the audio is crystal clear.

What I do miss and I would like to see in a future incarnation:

1) Word clock. It was silly not to put it there and the next model just has to have it.
2) SPDIF I/O carrying channels 17 and 18. Very useful.
3) Balanced inserts on the stereo buss that can be switched in and out, a la TL Audio. Again, very useful.
4) Buttons to switch between mic and line inputs. I REALLY miss them to the point that I've given up using the line ins because of the constant repatching and use the (albeit unbalanced) patch bay insert ins instead.
5) the possibility of having 16 channels of adat rather than eight. This should be possible with a firmware update and it would make me (and I suspect many other users) very happy.
Anyway, as it stands nothing can touch the R-16 for functionality, sound quality and value for money. I have recently had a rack summing box - in a similar price range as the R-16 - in my little studio, and was left wondering on who would pay the same money for something with no analogue eq or mic preamps given that the quality of the summing was very similar.
Cheers!

Many thanks for your detailed reply!

I posted my query to the A&H support guys - I'm sure they won't mind me posting their response here:

"At the moment the ZED-R16 has a switch to set the sample rate to 44.1 or 48kHz in ADAT mode, but we could release some firmware for user upload to the mixer that changed the switch function to say 48kHz (16 channels) and 96kHz (8 channels). We haven’t done this yet because we didn’t think anyone would be ok with halving the ADAT channel count but it’s no problem to do... "

That would suite my needs absolutely perfectly! And on that basis I've already ordered my R16 !!

As I was typing this I got another response - stating an intention to develop a "suite of firmware variations for users working in different ways".

Absolutely brilliant!

cheers all

[lovekrafty]

Originally Posted by microwave

What I do miss and I would like to see in a future incarnation:

1) Word clock. It was silly not to put it there and the next model just has to have it.
2) SPDIF I/O carrying channels 17 and 18. Very useful.
3) Balanced inserts on the stereo buss that can be switched in and out, a la TL Audio. Again, very useful.
4) Buttons to switch between mic and line inputs. I REALLY miss them to the point that I've given up using the line ins because of the constant repatching and use the (albeit unbalanced) patch bay insert ins instead.
5) the possibility of having 16 channels of adat rather than eight. This should be possible with a firmware update and it would make me (and I suspect many other users) very happy.
Anyway, as it stands nothing can touch the R-16 for functionality, sound quality and value for money. I have recently had a rack summing box - in a similar price range as the R-16 - in my little studio, and was left wondering on who would pay the same money for something with no analogue eq or mic preamps given that the quality of the summing was very similar.
Cheers!

I think Mike has just about covered all of these in the R24

[Invisible T]

Wish it could have a "Blend" knob on the Master insert. Like the TK Audio BC1 compressor and SU2 summing box.

[MartinHB]

Originally Posted by lovekrafty

Running Nuendo on Vista 64bit Quad Core

I have ran all channels just to test throughput,
I have also sent all channels to the R16 to check out summing.
but I keep 13-16 as dedicated effects channels for flying Effects in and out, the first 7 channels are kinda dedicated to Drum mikes, plus I have 3 outboard pres also plugged into dedicated channels.

I also have a Layla, use it via ADAT for 8 more I/O's
channel 1-2 are secondary monitors / aux for headphone mixes and have my surround outputs on Layla out's 3-8.

I also run a Liquidmix

I had oodles of issues initially , running on Vista 64 probably was'nt the smartest move. First thing I did was get a dedicated VIA firewirecard
( can't have both liquidmix and R16 on same firewire bus ).

I was still having problems with spontaneous drop-outs.
That's when I discovered my console was one with the missing firewire
grounding resistor issues, So Mike gave me instructions on how to do the solder blob fix, which I did, I also updated the firmware / drivers around the same time, one or the other fixed my issues.

Another thing I did that helped was disable the R16 as a windows system soundcard ( I use the Layla to listen to i-tunes etc.).

I was having issues with the R16 not being able to reset clock , was telling me another program was locking my DAW software out.

I currently run the R16 in safe mode 1 @ 512 buffer, was still having clicks and pops in normal mode, it runs stable now so I have'nt researched it any further. I suppose when the new drivers come out I'll see if I can get the buffer's down.

I still have issues in soundforge, when ever I open a 2-track with a different samplerate to a previous 2 track , I have to hit play / stop / play before it
reclocks.

I'm still running beta 64 bit drivers so I'm waiting for new drivers before I get into anymore screwing around/ time wasting trying to get faster performance, stability is more important to me.I've found work arounds for most of my issues but I think the drivers still have a ways to go hopefully these issues have been addressed.

Hope this helps
LK

Hey krafty, thanks for that
When I posted my query I ended up finding out what the problem was (system specific) and then I subsequently edited the post and removed the questions. Well you have just gone and answered them, must have been while I was editing haha. But I am still experiencing a bit of glitchy behaviour now and then which I can live with as long as A+H work on the drivers. At this point I still cant tell if firing back 16 channels to the consile and then returning them on sperate audio tracks is to much for the console/drivers. It shouldnt be.

I totally agree the drivers have a bit to go. Their a little 1999.

I also want to be able to change buffer settings with the software running. I havent seen any audio interface driver that requires the user to shut down their daw before changing the buffer settings in a long time. Maybe even as far back as 2003.

COME ON A+H HOW ABOUT THAT ONE..

[AlienHealth]

Hi Martin,

I will check the reasons for having to close the DAW when changing buffer size with TCAT who supply us with the drivers.
We use the DICE FireWire streaming processor in ZED-R16 which is used in quite a few other pro audio products from other manufacturers, and presumably the drivers act in a similar way. If anyone has more info on this it would be very interesting, especially if you can change sample rate/buffer size with the DAW running.

Cheers,
Mike.

[Stuart Wild]

This desk looks so very well balanced for a small-mid studio! I'm seriously considering getting one within the next 6 months.

I've got a couple of questions, sorry if I sound fairly newb here, but I'm very used to being all inside the computer, I'm now dragging myself out into analogue world after discovering a friend's Moog Voyager and especially his Sherman filterbank. One of the main reasons I'm going with this desk is it's true analogue signal path, but I have to wonder about the AD conversion...

I'm sure it's been mentioned (and if so, please feel free to point me to the page number - such a large thread!), but how does the AD conversion rate with this desk?

For my project studio this desk is perfect. I'm really thinking I should also be looking at an outboard mic preamp for vocals/guitar.
If I were to run an outboard mic preamp like an Avalon VT-737SP or a Universal Audio 6176, what would be the most appropriate way into the desk? Via AD/DA converter (e.g. crane song) into the ZedR16's ADAT, or maybe just straight into a channel?

Sorry if this post was a little off topic, but these are the things I'm considering in direct conjunction with this mixer.

Thanks!

[microwave]

Originally Posted by Stuart Wild

This desk looks so very well balanced for a small-mid studio! I'm seriously considering getting one within the next 6 months.

I've got a couple of questions, sorry if I sound fairly newb here, but I'm very used to being all inside the computer, I'm now dragging myself out into analogue world after discovering a friend's Moog Voyager and especially his Sherman filterbank. One of the main reasons I'm going with this desk is it's true analogue signal path, but I have to wonder about the AD conversion...

I'm sure it's been mentioned (and if so, please feel free to point me to the page number - such a large thread!), but how does the AD conversion rate with this desk?

For my project studio this desk is perfect. I'm really thinking I should also be looking at an outboard mic preamp for vocals/guitar.
If I were to run an outboard mic preamp like an Avalon VT-737SP or a Universal Audio 6176, what would be the most appropriate way into the desk? Via AD/DA converter (e.g. crane song) into the ZedR16's ADAT, or maybe just straight into a channel?

Sorry if this post was a little off topic, but these are the things I'm considering in direct conjunction with this mixer.

Thanks!

Hi Stuart,
I have compared the AD/DA of the R-16 against my RME FF800 and adi 8 DS when I bought the mixer and found it to be just as good. In real world terms this means that the converters will pretty much handle anything you can throw at them, so unless what you do and your target audience demand a totally "audiophile" signal path (you mention Crane Song AD, we are talking five grand or more for a set of converters!!!) they shouldn't disappoint you.
The preamps are really very good, much better that I expected I have to say, and I find myself using them more and more. They are clean, detailed and transparent yet have a lot of "weight". Again, they hold their own against respected mid price gear like spl or the dav bg-1, and to get sixteen of them thrown in is quite something.
As to how to interface external preamps: I too have some outboard pres I use when I want a dirtier or more colored sound at the source. I use the insert ins via a patch bay, which is the cleanest way in (unbalanced, but I never had a problem). The line input shares the path with the mic preamp so using the inserts is definitely neater. Also there is no provision for switching between mic and line - if you have a lot of microphones plugged in you have to keep repatching. Alternatively, I plug them into the RME adi 8 ds i have connected on the adat i/o.
Hope this helps
MW

[gollumsluvslave]

Also there is no provision for switching between mic and line - if you have a lot of microphones plugged in you have to keep repatching.

This is possibly the biggest thing i'd like to see addressed by the Zed R24.

We have patchbays for a reason!

[AlienHealth]

Originally Posted by Stuart Wild

This desk looks so very well balanced for a small-mid studio! I'm seriously considering getting one within the next 6 months.

I've got a couple of questions, sorry if I sound fairly newb here, but I'm very used to being all inside the computer, I'm now dragging myself out into analogue world after discovering a friend's Moog Voyager and especially his Sherman filterbank. One of the main reasons I'm going with this desk is it's true analogue signal path, but I have to wonder about the AD conversion...

I'm sure it's been mentioned (and if so, please feel free to point me to the page number - such a large thread!), but how does the AD conversion rate with this desk?

For my project studio this desk is perfect. I'm really thinking I should also be looking at an outboard mic preamp for vocals/guitar.
If I were to run an outboard mic preamp like an Avalon VT-737SP or a Universal Audio 6176, what would be the most appropriate way into the desk? Via AD/DA converter (e.g. crane song) into the ZedR16's ADAT, or maybe just straight into a channel?

Sorry if this post was a little off topic, but these are the things I'm considering in direct conjunction with this mixer.

Thanks!

Hi Stuart,

The channel ADCs are Cirrus Logic CS5368, 114dB dynamic range, 24bit and we run them up to 96kHz sample rate. The DACs are Burr Brown PCM4104, 118dB D/R again 24 bit and up to 96kHz.
The digital conversion performance is closely matched to the analogue circuit performance so as not to degrade either the dynamic range or linearity.
Regarding the pre-amp question, I would try the on-board pre-amps first before making additional purchases - the circuit is super-linear, having active feedback on both phases, has an EIN figure of -128.5dBu (minimal self noise), and maintains excellent performance across its wide gain range. The pre-amps and EQ are the main features on which the rest of the mixer is based! Not wanting to do anyone else's pre-amps down at all, but try ours first before shelling out more dosh!

I hope that helps,

Kind Regards,
Mike.

[sparkyness]

Happy to report that my ZED-R16 made it's way back to me in Melbourne after a few weeks in Sydney for repairs and hopefully my 2nd set of woes with the Firewire section of this board are my last....a quick test has revealed that I can get back to work at last!

In other news, I can concur with other users in that the 64bit drivers still need work. I tried the latest ones Mike posted here but Vista 64 bit no likey them. TC's driver developers could take a leaf out of RME's book as I can throw any operating system and change configurations on the fly with my Fireface without it missing a beat. Indeed the ZED software/drivers does feel a bit 1999 to be honest and is the one let down on a fine product.

My ZED R16 runs fine in 32 bit OS's but having to accept the RAM limitations of 32 bit Vista/XP are a bit of a trade-off if you use VSTi's which require significant amounts of RAM. I suspect a lot of ZED users (and potential buyers) would be from the VSTi world where you want a to introduce some analog goodness to your VSTi's but not have to worry about using workarounds if you hit the RAM ceiling because you have to use a a 32 Bit operating system for the unit to work properly.

Now back to setting up a dual boot system.....

[greatgreatriver]

I dig this mixer. I used to own a GL2200 that I liked a lot.

What I miss on the R16

1.) Mic/Line switch

2.) I would like to have the connectors on the rear side. I don't like to have my cable hell on top of the mixer.

3.) Balanced insert on the channels (not so important, but it would be nice)

4.) direct outs on every channel so I can use this console without the adat outs...

5.) The master bus (master inserts) out to spdif for mixdown.

6.) Wordclock... hello!

Would be nice with better metering.

Hope there will be a update on this little killer mixer.

[gollumsluvslave]

1.) Mic/Line switch

2.) I would like to have the connectors on the rear side. I don't like to have my cable hell on top of the mixer.

3.) Balanced insert on the channels (not so important, but it would be nice)

4.) direct outs on every channel so I can use this console without the adat outs...

5.) The master bus (master inserts) out to spdif for mixdown.

6.) Wordclock... hello!

Would be nice with better metering.

Hope there will be a update on this little killer mixer.

I'm pretty certain Mike is on the case with all of these for the R24 design - I'm pretty certain all those points have been covered in this thread as good improvements - some of the others that have been suggested are as follows:-

- 100mm Faders
- Solo in Place (one of the biggest criticism of Z16)
- Switchable aux pre/post
- Improved DAW control / motorised faders (too costly IMO, but as an option, might be nice - to be honest i'd be happier if they came up with some kind of recall you could save with your DAW project over motorised faders)
- Mic Pre options (not everyone will need 24 mic pres with the R24 etc, so modularising the pres would make the R24 a flexible beast)

Think that about covers it.

Really excited to see what Mike and co are cooking up with the R24 - if it even addresses 2 or 3 of the biggests 'wishlist' stuff above, it will be exactly what I'm looking for.

[greatgreatriver]

I will buy version 2 in a heart beat if they add all stuff on my wishlist. 16 channels are more than enough for me. The MIC/LINE switch is very important. I used my GL2200 for both recording and mixing and it worked great.

The solo button would be nice but I don't mind using the solo button inside Nuendo.

I really hope they put the connectors on the rear side. I hate having all connectors on the top. It looks cheesy and messy.

The direct outs are extremely important. I don't want to buy a mixer only use adat I/O.

Would be nice if you could bypass the preamp section to.

They better do it right - because I don't mind spending more money on something that is 100% perfect.

Love A&H!

Cheers.

[awediohead]

From what I can gather the basic dimensions of the R16 along with its "look" were determined in advance of Mike being given the job of fitting in what features would physically fit in the available space. So no 100mm faders for example.

With the R24 those constraints aren't there in the same way - and as has been said I think it would be a very smart move to distinguish the "R" series from the rest of the ZED series with a different look.

As Mike has said the lack of word clock on the R16 was not deliberate - I contacted A&H support to ask if it was possible to have word clock added to an existing unit as a factory "upgrade" and they replied to say they would look into whether it was possible - the problem being limited internal space.

So again with a larger format desk it seems many of the features people are asking for would be included: its not as if A&H haven't been doing this for a while

Personally speaking many of the features people are asking for don't interest me - I've managed perfectly well with my Alphatrack as a "control surface" and since I'll be using the R16 with reference to what I'm seeing in my DAW I don't see the problem. Motorised 100mm fader, solo, etc . . .

As for working independently of a DAW and the visual in general - well I have these amazingly effective fine membrane optical input shut off devices in front of each eyeball. I find they work a treat!

[greatgreatriver]

They should keep develop the R16 as well. There must be space for a WC - common. Oh and the direct outs could fit to. Maybe rebuild the frame on version two of the R16. Would be nice to have WC.

I own the Mixwizard - I can't understand why they left out the direct outs on the R16. It's a big issue for me. I hate being limited to one digital system. It's safer to have all the analog goodies to.

If I buy into this system I don't want to limit myself with the adat option. I want to use this system for many years. I'm tired of updating gear all the time as my needs expand. If there is analog outs on each channel I can always add my own AD.

I really hope there will be an update for the R16. The price is good and 16 channels is perfect for my needs.

I also think they should add a bigger CR knob bigger like on those monitor controllers. Maybe add more solid play, stop etc buttons. They looked very plastic, cheap on the youtube clip... I would like to have a little more space on the control surface. I don't mind if the R16 would grow in size. Make it a little more boutique. Remember it's going to be the centerpiece in many home studios.

A meterbridge would be awesome.

[gollumsluvslave]

The solo button would be nice but I don't mind using the solo button inside Nuendo.

SIP is pretty big for me - I really want to be able to switch my monitors off and just mix - having to solo in the DAW means that you really need the monitors on, or be able to see what is solo'd via something like MCU.

For me, in order of importance:-

1. Solo in Place
2. Mic / Line switchable with no repatching
3. 100mm faders
4. 2 channel digital in/out via SP-DIF
5. Rear connectors
6. Word Clock

Anything else is gravy for me

[greatgreatriver]

Originally Posted by gollumsluvslave

SIP is pretty big for me - I really want to be able to switch my monitors off and just mix - having to solo in the DAW means that you really need the monitors on, or be able to see what is solo'd via something like MCU.

For me, in order of importance:-

1. Solo in Place
2. Mic / Line switchable with no repatching
3. 100mm faders
4. 2 channel digital in/out via SP-DIF
5. Rear connectors
6. Word Clock

Anything else is gravy for me

Good!

But don't you miss the direct outs? I've worked on both the GL2200 and Mixwizard and the direct outs have always been nice to have. I could switch from tracking to mixing in a heartbeat... Why did they remove the mic/line switch? It's very strange.

What's the deal with 100mm faders? Can someone please explain?

I do most of the automation inside the console - just minor changes on the console on the channels I use hardware compression etc.

[gollumsluvslave]

What's the deal with 100mm faders? Can someone please explain?

But don't you miss the direct outs?

Not really - one of the main attractions for me is the fact it has decent A/D conversion built in. I was previously looking at something like SSL Alpha-Link AX and a Toft ATB 24, but it was goona come in at nearly 6 grand, which is too much for me.

I'd only need direct outs if I bought better converters like the Alphalink - other than that I can't think of any other reason to have them.

I really want to get back to mixing as something I enjoy and away from automation - where a mix is more like a 'performance' if you will; when it comes to that, riding faders and so forth I just prefer 100mm - hard to identify, but 60mm don't feel 'right'.

[greatgreatriver]

Originally Posted by gollumsluvslave

Not really - one of the main attractions for me is the fact it has decent A/D conversion built in. I was previously looking at something like SSL Alpha-Link AX and a Toft ATB 24, but it was goona come in at nearly 6 grand, which is too much for me.

I'd only need direct outs if I bought better converters like the Alphalink - other than that I can't think of any other reason to have them.

I really want to get back to mixing as something I enjoy and away from automation - where a mix is more like a 'performance' if you will; when it comes to that, riding faders and so forth I just prefer 100mm - hard to identify, but 60mm don't feel 'right'.

Cool man!

I'm missing real faders to

The reason why I need this little mixer is because I need a control surface to all my hardware gear. I tried hooking up all my gear to the converters and use the hardware inserts inside Nuendo but it never felt right for me. It's a lot easier to just patch in a compressor and mix on a mixer/console. I dig the hybrid way of using both plug-ins and hardware. The R16 seems right but I do miss the direct outs... I'm not sure I will use the adat I/O all my life. It would be nice to have the direct outs so I can connect the mixer to the system I choose. If that makes sense.

The SSL seems very nice...

The Toft is a little to expensive for me - and I think it's a ugly mixer. I'm not sure I could stand it in my studio. ha!

[lovekrafty]

Well you could use the insert send as a direct out , all be it unbalanced.

[greatgreatriver]

That's too deep for me man - I want to keep the inserts for my patchbay and the hardware stuff.

[gollumsluvslave]

Well you could use the insert send as a direct out , all be it unbalanced.

Great point - if insert points are all patchbay'd up, then no reason not to use them as direct outs - of course you wouldn't get the channel EQ and Insert in the path, where I guess proper Direct Outs would be post EQ?

Maybe thats what Greatgreatriver is wanting - direct outs post EQ and post Insert? Of course to me that doesn't really sound like 'direct' out

[gollumsluvslave]

The Toft is a little to expensive for me - and I think it's a ugly mixer. I'm not sure I could stand it in my studio. ha!

I was mainly interested in the Toft for the channel EQs which by all accounts are really nice. I've been following the Zed R16 for a similar reason - I want an analogue mixing solution that has decent inline EQ that can be used both at tracking and at mixing. It isn't the most aesthetically pleasing of consoles I agree.

I'm not tool fussed about the whole 'summing' thing, I simply want to be able to tweak my EQs with pots and hear my changes clearly - I've never been able to do that ITB; mouse and monitor are clunky and make it hard for me to really listen, even my MCU is compromised when it comes to sweeping frequencies to find problems and sweet spots.

Most of this for me isn't to do with quality of plugins or summing bus or whatever, it's I simply don't have much fun mixing ITB, it's a bit of a chore (bear in mind I'm a computer programmer/solutions architect by profession, so I'm looking at monitors for 9 hours a day - the last thing I want to do is be staring at them at the weekend etc)

[greatgreatriver]

Originally Posted by gollumsluvslave

Great point - if insert points are all patchbay'd up, then no reason not to use them as direct outs - of course you wouldn't get the channel EQ and Insert in the path, where I guess proper Direct Outs would be post EQ?

Maybe thats what Greatgreatriver is wanting - direct outs post EQ and post Insert? Of course to me that doesn't really sound like 'direct' out

I was very happy have the direct outs worked on both the gl2200 wixwizard - used it for tracking.

Hey using the inserts is just a crappy workaround when you are used to the way A&H mixer is supposed to work. I miss those darn direct outs, ha!

I see you point though!

[greatgreatriver]

Originally Posted by gollumsluvslave

I was mainly interested in the Toft for the channel EQs which by all accounts are really nice. I've been following the Zed R16 for a similar reason - I want an analogue mixing solution that has decent inline EQ that can be used both at tracking and at mixing. It isn't the most aesthetically pleasing of consoles I agree.

I'm not tool fussed about the whole 'summing' thing, I simply want to be able to tweak my EQs with pots and hear my changes clearly - I've never been able to do that ITB; mouse and monitor are clunky and make it hard for me to really listen, even my MCU is compromised when it comes to sweeping frequencies to find problems and sweet spots.

Most of this for me isn't to do with quality of plugins or summing bus or whatever, it's I simply don't have much fun mixing ITB, it's a bit of a chore (bear in mind I'm a computer programmer/solutions architect by profession, so I'm looking at monitors for 9 hours a day - the last thing I want to do is be staring at them at the weekend etc)

I'm in the same camp bro!