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#631
18th May 2009
Old 18th May 2009
  #631
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External Firewire Hard Drive & ZED

is it possible to connect an external hard drive (daisy chain) to the ZED's 2nd firewire connector?
I usually use the ZED together with my digi 002r (8 analog & 8 adat) but wanted to try it with the firewire bus and reaper this morning but the hard drive wouldn't power on.

The chain was like this: Macbook > ZED > hard drive

Is this possible?

Grant
#632
18th May 2009
Old 18th May 2009
  #632
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Quote:
is there a zed midi template for REaper?
The second Mike and company do (see my back n' forth earlier in this thread), I'll buy one in a heartbeat. Okay, maybe not a heartbeat, more like the indeterminate time between my wife's discovery of my last studio addition and the cool-off period before I introduce the ZED.

Reaper, is solid gold for this board. I hope some of the MIDI updates hinted at in the previous page are indeed more DAW templates.
Wheels
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#633
18th May 2009
Old 18th May 2009
  #633
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A&H Reply:

Quote:
Originally Posted by malfunction View Post
is it possible to connect an external hard drive (daisy chain) to the ZED's 2nd firewire connector?
I usually use the ZED together with my digi 002r (8 analog & 8 adat) but wanted to try it with the firewire bus and reaper this morning but the hard drive wouldn't power on.

The chain was like this: Macbook > ZED > hard drive

Is this possible?

Grant
Hi Grant,
To be honest, I'm not sure. Presumably your mac treats the hard drive as a peripheral on the FW bus, and the ZED-R16 as another peripheral (audio device), but I would have thought that the hard drive needs to be connected the the host computer rather than the ZED. The second FW port on the ZED is aimed at connecting a second mixer.
Still, let us know how it works - or if it doesn't!

Cheers,
Mike.
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#634
18th May 2009
Old 18th May 2009
  #634
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A&H Reply:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheelomatic View Post
The second Mike and company do (see my back n' forth earlier in this thread), I'll buy one in a heartbeat. Okay, maybe not a heartbeat, more like the indeterminate time between my wife's discovery of my last studio addition and the cool-off period before I introduce the ZED.

Reaper, is solid gold for this board. I hope some of the MIDI updates hinted at in the previous page are indeed more DAW templates.
Wheels
Hi Wheels,
Reaper looks good but I haven't worked out how to control Reaper functions with MIDI. I see there are controller templates for specific hardware controllers - but I can't see how to do it with a general MIDI controller. Any ideas?
Cheers,
Mike.
#635
18th May 2009
Old 18th May 2009
  #635
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Any knews on the R24? Pictures yet?
#636
18th May 2009
Old 18th May 2009
  #636
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Mike,
I'm not quite a Midiot, but I'm close. What concerns me is that you're probably exploring midi controller options via the PC side of Reaper which is much more robust than the Mac (that'd be me) version, which essentially a beta at this point.

I really wouldn't know re: ZED married to Reaper. I've basically been able to follow the instructions to connect my m-audio radium controller in Reaper. But I've posted on the ZED R16 on the Reaper board before and got nothing. It's a pretty helpful bunch over there and some may have ideas. I'll see what I can find out from more Power Reaper Users.

Thanks for looking into that Mike. Just based on this thread alone and your active involvement, I'm sold on the product and the company.
Best,
Wheels
#637
19th May 2009
Old 19th May 2009
  #637
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Brian! is offline
Anyone have some sort of comparison chart between the USB and Firewire A&H mixers? Assuming I don't need USB or Firewire, what would be the major differences between the models?
#638
19th May 2009
Old 19th May 2009
  #638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian! View Post
Anyone have some sort of comparison chart between the USB and Firewire A&H mixers? Assuming I don't need USB or Firewire, what would be the major differences between the models?
Even if you just consider the analogue side there's a big difference. The USB Zeds are extremely good for the money - totally usable preamps, eq, good overall sound etc. I would say better than anything else you can buy at that price.
However the R-16 is most definitely a big step up in every aspect: better preamp (its really very good), much more comprehensive and better sounding equalizer good enough to use as a "to go" eq, high quality converters (difficult to keep them out of the equation), very versatile routing options which are invaluable when recording anything more than a very simple setup.
#639
19th May 2009
Old 19th May 2009
  #639
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External Sync via ADAT

Hello there. I am having a bad time having to connect the ZED R16 to the comp each time it's powered on only to switch back to external sync as it doesn't retain the settings. Does anyone know whether there is a way to store this permanently in the desk, so that when powered on it goes to an external ADAT sync staight away? It's connected as slave via both ADATs to the Fireface 800 as master. The reason I don't want the desk to be permanently connected via Firewire to the comp is that it's got some issues with the Fireface when running on Windowz XP (on a Mac all's fine) and it's a waste of the firewire port. Oh how I wish there was a switch on the back to set the external clocking! And the Wordclock... Gues can't have everything. Greets e-Manuel
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#640
19th May 2009
Old 19th May 2009
  #640
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#641
19th May 2009
Old 19th May 2009
  #641
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I am impressed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by e-Manuel View Post
I am having a bad time having to connect the ZED R16 to the comp each time it's powered on only to switch back to external sync as it doesn't retain the settings.
Following a morning call to A&H I've received a reply which explains the issue I am having: "Please note that it is currently the case that ADAT clock source settings are not retained when the mixer is powered OFF, so that you would need to reset this via the software ZEDDICE control panel. However, a firmware update has now been developed and is due for official release, together with 64Bit OS compatible drivers, in the near future. This firmware update addresses this issue and should allow these settings to be retained in the mixer when switched off." Thank you Mike and A&H for the beta driver and the nice, refreshingly professional customer service!
#642
19th May 2009
Old 19th May 2009
  #642
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Jorn Lavoll is offline
based on this thread, i am absolutely going to get a r16 when i move into my new studio. mike, you are such a great ambassador for your product! and it just seems so... useful
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#643
19th May 2009
Old 19th May 2009
  #643
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R16 Sonics

Are there any more users out there that can let us know how this box sounds when compared to "high end" kit?

for example:

Prism Orpheus
Lynx 16 Aurora with a toft board, midas board, speck mixer, etc...
SSL converters with SSL summing box, etc...

I am at a gear crossroads and am leaning towards the high end...right now I use a folcrom passive summing mixer with an API A2D for make up gain and a few nice compressors / buss EQ...what I really need are better D/A A/D converters for my I/O...or do I need the R16?

Seriously, if anyone can comment on the sonics of the R16 in context of the more popular high end gear going around that would be awesome...

mixing / summing / tracking
#644
19th May 2009
Old 19th May 2009
  #644
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On the R16, are the stereo bus converters (A/D and D/A) higher quality than the other 16 channels?

I'm trying to figure out how I would use my API A2D with the R16...no SPDIF...

Is the R16 master A/D on par with the API A2D ?
#645
20th May 2009
Old 20th May 2009
  #645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienHealth View Post
Hi Grant,
To be honest, I'm not sure. Presumably your mac treats the hard drive as a peripheral on the FW bus, and the ZED-R16 as another peripheral (audio device), but I would have thought that the hard drive needs to be connected the the host computer rather than the ZED. The second FW port on the ZED is aimed at connecting a second mixer.
Still, let us know how it works - or if it doesn't!

Cheers,
Mike.
I also read in the manual about the second FW port on the Zed being there for connecting a second ZED. I tried daisy chaining the hard drive, macbook > ZED > hard drive, but it wouldn't mount.
I suppose this would work, macbook > hard drive > ZED...my only problem is that my external hard drive has only one FW400 port.

Grant
#646
20th May 2009
Old 20th May 2009
  #646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grockvt View Post
On the R16, are the stereo bus converters (A/D and D/A) higher quality than the other 16 channels?

I'm trying to figure out how I would use my API A2D with the R16...no SPDIF...

Is the R16 master A/D on par with the API A2D ?
I'm taking the 2 track 2 out into the API A2D's convertor section then mixing down in PTLE.
Works fine for me.
#647
20th May 2009
Old 20th May 2009
  #647
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ZED and Fireface

I can now confirm that ZED R16 retains the ADAT external clock sync when power cycled after the update to the 3.3.4.3998 driver and 1.1.5.0 firmware. Also after closing the control panel it does not interrupt the firewire port any more (therefore I can leave it connected to the second firewire port on RME Fireface without causing problems, in order to be able to access the control panel- just in case). Now I've got a nice setup (used both with Mac OSX and WinXP on MacPro) giving me 26 analog ins and outs (16 to/from desk via ADATs and 10 on Fireface) plus SPDIF into the system, based on ZED and RME Fireface 800 (which also gives me wonderful DIGICheck). No glitches, nice clarity. I must say I was not 100% convinced even after buying the desk, but the excellent A&H customer support was an icing on the already sweet cake.
#648
21st May 2009
Old 21st May 2009
  #648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grockvt View Post
Are there any more users out there that can let us know how this box sounds when compared to "high end" kit?

for example:

Prism Orpheus
Lynx 16 Aurora with a toft board, midas board, speck mixer, etc...
SSL converters with SSL summing box, etc...

I am at a gear crossroads and am leaning towards the high end...right now I use a folcrom passive summing mixer with an API A2D for make up gain and a few nice compressors / buss EQ...what I really need are better D/A A/D converters for my I/O...or do I need the R16?

Seriously, if anyone can comment on the sonics of the R16 in context of the more popular high end gear going around that would be awesome...

mixing / summing / tracking
I could be wrong, but I don't know if you'll find many R16 users who have moved over from that more expensive stuff. It's still pretty new and seems to appeal to those who have wanted an analog console but didn't want to spend the cash to get one, especially if it didn't allow them some nice DAW control. R16 seems like a great kit that is making ground. A bargain.

Anyhow, regarding converters...this was taken from a post the designer Mike wrote earlier in this thread:
Quote:
ADC's are the CS5368 from Cirrus. They are 114dB dynamic range (A wtd) -105dB THD+n 8 channel versions of the ones we use in our acclaimed iLive digital live system.
The channel DAC's are the PCM4104 from TI. They are 118dB D/R -100dB THD+n. The digital conversion performance matches closely that of the analogue mix so that there is no degradation from either domain.
The Master LR digital conversion is handled by a stereo CODEC.
From a numbers standpoint that seems up there to me. I've looked at similar products and not found anything better overall. Of course, there are several things that impact sound.

My fear would be the technical issues people are having with the drivers, but I think that is across the board with FW units.
#649
21st May 2009
Old 21st May 2009
  #649
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I have to second many other people on this board and say that Mike from A&H is doing a great job supporting not only his existing clients, but offering a great deal of comfort to other people like myself that will be buying a hybrid DAW setup at some point over the next 6-12 months.

I am currently in the process of soundproofing my outhouse for recording/mix & rehearsal purposes, and once this is complete the Zed R16 is looking likea very good centrepiece, not least because of the excellent support I am seeing.

Of course, by the time my outhouse is finished, I'm hoping to hear some news on the Zed R24!!

There are a few things I'd like to see, most notably 2 channel AD/DA via sp-dif so I can use my API-A2D converters during tracking if I want.

Word clock would also be useful.

Keep up the good work Mike!
#650
22nd May 2009
Old 22nd May 2009
  #650
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I think for those waiting for the R24, from what I've heard you'll wet your pants when you see it.You'll not be disappointed.

Say no more
loveKrafty
#651
22nd May 2009
Old 22nd May 2009
  #651
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on the disconnect problem, i took it into a local service shop (leos audio oakland). i can solder but i wasn't gonna screw with a big investment.

is where im at right now.

is where ill be in another week along with the board


by the way, i also had power noise issues. it could have been because of the grounding issue and i hope will be fixed soon.

yeah the mixer sounds awesome. assuming the firewire thing gets resolved, then my only gripe with the midi which kind of sucks sorry to say. it looks neat but really to get more than basic features you have to jump through some insane hoops, e.g. write custom midi-ox scripts.
- many daws don't support mmc for transport (e.g. vegas, ableton, samplitude), it would work if i could change the mixer to send notes instead of mmc, which could be done maybe through custom coding of midi-ox.
- the left/right cursors you naturally want to select between channel banks up and down (e.g. channel faders or rotary encoders), but to make that work you have to write software (ie.g. midi-ox scripts). same for the shift button, the bank buttons, etc. also where are you going to *see* the status of the config?
- there's no way to turn on/off midi for *all the channels at once*. this is pretty darned annoying. should be a <shift button> function

so i guess the question I have is will a&h be kind enough to dedicate some people to writing better midi config stuff? if not, i cant recommend this board if you are looking for some killer automation mixer of the future setup.

- michel
#652
25th May 2009
Old 25th May 2009
  #652
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bawdenpercussion is offline
Hi Mike,

My name is Nathan, I work at RJF Audio Visual in Camborne, Cornwall (Allen Heath Dealers) and I have a customer who is interested in buying the R16, would like to know, if he connects a Behringer ADA8000 unit to the R16 via optical, would it just put the 8 channels from the ADA8000 onto the 8 channels of the R16 or would he be able to assign them to bespoke inputs in Nuendo?

Also, I was wondering if you might fancy sending one down to RJF so I can have a play and familiarise myself with one been dying to get my hands on one!

Regards,

Nathan
#653
25th May 2009
Old 25th May 2009
  #653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bawdenpercussion View Post
Hi Mike,

My name is Nathan, I work at RJF Audio Visual in Camborne, Cornwall (Allen Heath Dealers) and I have a customer who is interested in buying the R16, would like to know, if he connects a Behringer ADA8000 unit to the R16 via optical, would it just put the 8 channels from the ADA8000 onto the 8 channels of the R16 or would he be able to assign them to bespoke inputs in Nuendo?

Also, I was wondering if you might fancy sending one down to RJF so I can have a play and familiarise myself with one been dying to get my hands on one!

Regards,

Nathan

It will show up as adat 1-8, and you still have the 16 inputs available. 24 total + the main channels.
#654
26th May 2009
Old 26th May 2009
  #654
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AlienHealth is offline
A&H Reply:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bawdenpercussion View Post
Hi Mike,

My name is Nathan, I work at RJF Audio Visual in Camborne, Cornwall (Allen Heath Dealers) and I have a customer who is interested in buying the R16, would like to know, if he connects a Behringer ADA8000 unit to the R16 via optical, would it just put the 8 channels from the ADA8000 onto the 8 channels of the R16 or would he be able to assign them to bespoke inputs in Nuendo?

Also, I was wondering if you might fancy sending one down to RJF so I can have a play and familiarise myself with one been dying to get my hands on one!

Regards,

Nathan
Hi Nathan,

Kvesper is correct in saying that the 8 ADAT inputs would be added to the FireWire bus to give you 26 channels in total which you can route to your audio application. Alternatively you could switch the mixer on in ADAT mode where the ADAT inputs would be routed to the ZED-R16 mixer channels and not the FireWire bus.

I'll speak to someone about lending one to RJF.

Kind regards,
Mike.
#655
26th May 2009
Old 26th May 2009
  #655
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A&H Reply:

Quote:
Originally Posted by shootingsparks View Post
on the disconnect problem, i took it into a local service shop (leos audio oakland). i can solder but i wasn't gonna screw with a big investment.

is where im at right now.

is where ill be in another week along with the board


by the way, i also had power noise issues. it could have been because of the grounding issue and i hope will be fixed soon.

yeah the mixer sounds awesome. assuming the firewire thing gets resolved, then my only gripe with the midi which kind of sucks sorry to say. it looks neat but really to get more than basic features you have to jump through some insane hoops, e.g. write custom midi-ox scripts.
- many daws don't support mmc for transport (e.g. vegas, ableton, samplitude), it would work if i could change the mixer to send notes instead of mmc, which could be done maybe through custom coding of midi-ox.
- the left/right cursors you naturally want to select between channel banks up and down (e.g. channel faders or rotary encoders), but to make that work you have to write software (ie.g. midi-ox scripts). same for the shift button, the bank buttons, etc. also where are you going to *see* the status of the config?
- there's no way to turn on/off midi for *all the channels at once*. this is pretty darned annoying. should be a <shift button> function

so i guess the question I have is will a&h be kind enough to dedicate some people to writing better midi config stuff? if not, i cant recommend this board if you are looking for some killer automation mixer of the future setup.

- michel
Hi Michel,

I hope your mixer is fixed now - let me know if you have any problems or contact us direct at support@allen-heath.com to get things resolved.
We could sort you out with a MIDI system that outputs note on/off messages rather than MMC if you wanted. Unfortunately you can't program this via FireWire, but it's possible to change the processor that controls the MIDI output.
You're justified in pointing out the limitations of the MIDI functionality - I've always said that the priorities of the design concept ran as:
1) Pre-amp sonic quality & EQ power.
2) Quality of ADC & DAC and ease of connection to a DAW.
3) Routing flexibility, allowing different methods of working.
4) MIDI control functionality.

Having said that, we're more than interested in helping to maximise the useability of the controls that are on ZED-R16, so talk to us and we'll see what we can do.
A PM is best or an email to support@allen-heath.com

Kind regards,
Mike.
#656
28th May 2009
Old 28th May 2009
  #656
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it would be really cool to see a gearslutz magazine review of this mixer, not necessarily for me but it would help get the word out to people who i think could really like this mixer.
#657
29th May 2009
Old 29th May 2009
  #657
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sparkyness is offline
Mike,

FYI: Have a bit of a bad news update on my experiences with the ZED R16....my first one died and was returned to A&H due to some power-related failure which shafted the firmware and connectivity.

I received a replacement unit direct from A&H which appeared fine when I tested it before shipping it to my new home in Australia. When it arrived a couple of days ago I couldn't get it to detect on either my laptop or desktop machines. Support asked me to check the FW board and I find that my replacement has one of the FW boards which have the known defect. I've completed the "solder blob" fix as advised by Tech Support but still can't get the thing to detect. Everything else (audio, ADAT, etc) appears to be fine, but the Firewire issue remains.

Frustration is an understatement, as the concept/sound of this unit is perfect for my needs but I just seem to keep experiencing quality issues with these units. I've replied to Tech Support to see what else can be done about this but obviously now being in Australia probably limits my options...so feeling quite stuck at the moment.
#658
29th May 2009
Old 29th May 2009
  #658
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A&H Reply:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkyness View Post
Mike,

FYI: Have a bit of a bad news update on my experiences with the ZED R16....my first one died and was returned to A&H due to some power-related failure which shafted the firmware and connectivity.

I received a replacement unit direct from A&H which appeared fine when I tested it before shipping it to my new home in Australia. When it arrived a couple of days ago I couldn't get it to detect on either my laptop or desktop machines. Support asked me to check the FW board and I find that my replacement has one of the FW boards which have the known defect. I've completed the "solder blob" fix as advised by Tech Support but still can't get the thing to detect. Everything else (audio, ADAT, etc) appears to be fine, but the Firewire issue remains.

Frustration is an understatement, as the concept/sound of this unit is perfect for my needs but I just seem to keep experiencing quality issues with these units. I've replied to Tech Support to see what else can be done about this but obviously now being in Australia probably limits my options...so feeling quite stuck at the moment.
Hi Sparkyness,

Don't worry, we'll sort out your problems. If you send me a private message with your email and details I will refer you directly to our Tech Support in the UK. We'll then help by diagnosing the problem and sending replacement parts if required.

Kind regards,

Mike.
#659
29th May 2009
Old 29th May 2009
  #659
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sparkyness is offline
Thanks Mike.

Support have been in touch and are sending me out a replacement PCB board on Monday. Hopefully once I install it my troubles are over and I can get back to making the noise I should be.

update: Support now advised that it'll have to be shipped to the local distributor for repairs *sigh*....I'm so over this.

.
#660
31st May 2009
Old 31st May 2009
  #660
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Banjo is offline
It must be frustrating time for you, I've had a firewire interface in for a warranty issue ( dead firewire ) for ten weeks now. It's only Australia guys, not Timbuktu, it doesn't take ten weeks to get a spare part here. One step forward........ I do appreciate the concept of this A&H deck though and it's still on my wish list, I hope all the issues smooth out quickly for the early users. Denis House...
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