A&H Zed R16 Firewire Mixer

[ainternational]

Further extensive testing- using an older 7-slot Magma Chassis as well as my newer 13-slot chassis, suggests that there's a problem as soon as you try to add more than 2 UAD-1 cards to the system, even when spread across 2 chassis and the remaining free PCI slot in the G5.

The best I've managed is 2 UAD-1s and a Powercore element.

Anyone else found this? Highly frustrating to be given the huge flexibility of the Zed R16 for mixing on one hand, while losing 2 of my 4 UAD-1s...

[sparkyness]

No problems here - I use 3 UAD cards and my ZED R16. They all play nice together.

I'm not using a Magma chassis though, so that may be the wildcard.

[AlienHealth]

Originally Posted by rolandman

I have a few questions about this board. (Sorry if these were answered earlier in this thread.)

1. I see that you can daisy-chain two boards together using a PC. But can you do the same thing with a Mac? (I use Logic 8)

2. Are 16 faders only able to control 16 channels of a mix? or can they be moved around virtually to mix a song using, say, 24 tracks? (I'm assuming not, but just checking...)

3. Am I able to run recorded track back through the board, use the EQ section, and then rerecord that back into the DAW for later use?

Thanks!

FYI: I have to admit that I almost bought the Presonus Studiolive, but I have been converted to the R16 even if it means another $1000. (main reasons: quality of mic pres, and DAW control)

Hi rolandman,
The answer to your questions are:
1) Yes you can connect two ZED-R16s to a Mac by daisy-chaining the FireWire ports.
2) The MIDI fader controllers can be assigned to any MIDI controlled parameter in your DAW, if the DAW allows that (most of them do have either a learn feature or parameter assign section), so yes they can be assigned to any track fader. Also, if the DAW allows, you can assign a bank of MIDI faders and step the bank along your track list.
3) Yes indeed! I intentionally put this feature in so you can use the EQ in ZED-R16 as an "analogue plug-in" with your DAW!

Cheers,
Mike.

[AlienHealth]

Originally Posted by tnestelaar

One thing I wonder is what happens with the AD conversion when I give some overdrive on the input amplifier.
I think this will lead to digital clipping as well but maybe I'm wrong?

Can I say that if the input meter in the DAW does not clip, then there's no digital clipping in the AD convertor?

Tom

Hi Tom,
It's true to say that if the pre-amp is clipping, then the ADC will be clipping also.
It is also true to say that the DAW input meter reflects the ADC level so 0dBFS on the DAW meter = ADC clip point.
I've just hooked up a ZED-R16 and routed a signal through the ADC to SONAR 8 (and Ableton) then back to the ZED-R16, increasing the signal well into clipping. As digital systems go it has to be said that the whole system clips with no nasty artefacts and in a similar way to overdriving analogue circuitry.
There is a few dB's more headroom on the analogue side, but yes, the DAW input meters show the actual level of the ADCs.

Cheers,
Mike.

[shootingsparks]

Hi folks,

I have a question about ADAT input. I have an 8-channel mic-strip with analog and ADAT I/O. I'm wondering if I plug into the ADAT input of the ZEDR16, and the firewire out of the ZEDR16 into my computer, will I get 16+8 channels converted into my computer? This is basically what I'm doing now and with my existing setup where I combine my channel strip with a Firestudio and am wondering if I can keep this functionality or will lose it?



Thanks,
Michel

[Eddicuz]

Originally Posted by shootingsparks

Hi folks,

I have a question about ADAT input. I have an 8-channel mic-strip with analog and ADAT I/O. I'm wondering if I plug into the ADAT input of the ZEDR16, and the firewire out of the ZEDR16 into my computer, will I get 16+8 channels converted into my computer? This is basically what I'm doing now and with my existing setup where I combine my channel strip with a Firestudio and am wondering if I can keep this functionality or will lose it?



Thanks,
Michel

Hi Michel,

I'm running the r-16 with a MOTU 8pre, and have this plugged into the first adat input on the desk and it works fine, giving me 16+8 ins. you just need to check that the desk and adat source are running at the same sample rate otherwise there is no communication.

the adat channels come up as 19-26 in logic. (17&18 being the stereo main, 1-16 being the r-16 channels)

hope this helps

Ed

[shootingsparks]

Thanks Eddie, so just to confirm you can then get the whole 24 channels into the computer then? I assume the expanded 8 channels you would just use a software mixer for and with your DAW right?

Just want to clarify that they're not just routed only through the stereo bus, as I'm hoping its all separate channels at the computer.

[Eddicuz]

Originally Posted by shootingsparks

Thanks Eddie, so just to confirm you can then get the whole 24 channels into the computer then? I assume the expanded 8 channels you would just use a software mixer for and with your DAW right?

Just want to clarify that they're not just routed only through the stereo bus, as I'm hoping its all separate channels at the computer.

yes they all come up as individual tracks you would lose the adat tracks if you worked above 48khz sample rate, but i work mainly at 48 and it sounds amazing.

you would need to mix them in the DAW though yes, maybe on the stereo bus (17&18) or if you wanted to make use of any panning or desk eq you could set the adat channels to come back on a channel on the desk.

Ed

[rolandman]

One more question. How well does the R16 play with another fader controller? Can I use the R16 with a BCF2000 for more faders to mix in the DAW?

Thanks!

[shootingsparks]

Another random question for the group,

Anyone use this baby in Samplitude 10? I'm mostly wondering about automation integration and if there are templates for the mixer to make setup easy?

[eltervaag]

Ok. Just got my Zed R-16 today. It looks stunning.

I´m on a Mac DP 2 ghz PPC, OSX 10.4.11, running Logic 8

Installed the driver without the mixer connected. Restarted, powered up the mixer and plugged in the firewire.
My G5 sees the Zed in Systempref>Sound. I tick the In and Out for the Zed R-16.
Open up Audio/Midi Setup and things start to happen. Deafault Input says Built-In Audio. I can´t change it to Zed R 16. (The Mixer is in Firewire Mode on the back of the unit and it is set to 44.100)
Properties For is set to Zed R-16. Default Out and System Out is set to Built- In Audio. I cant change it.

On the Zeddice Control Panel everything is set as normal as i can see. 44.1khz, Operation Mode : Normal, Sync Source: Internal ( is that right?)
Status: Normal.

When i try to change the Sample Rate in the Zeddice Contrl Panel, things start to happen in the Audio Midi Setup-window. All the things that used to be set to Built-In Audio, is now set to Zed R-16.When I change it back to 44.1 it goes back to "normal" again.

Whats going on?

After many trys with the Sample Rate Settings it Locked on 44.1 khz, but it lost the connection every 5 sec.

I have my monitors hooked up through the CRM Outs. I get sound when I test the channels with a SM58. I dont get sound from the Audio Midi Setup Confi.Speakers even though System Out ect is set. If I open up iTunes to see if there is any sound from the computer, nothing happens. Should there be sound when System Output is set to Zed R-16?

I have uninstalled the driver and then reinstalled to see if that helped.

Hopefully someone can help me out with this. Maybe I have done something stupid?
This is my first mixer/centerpiece. And can´t wait to get it to work as it should
I replaced my Fireface 800 for the Zed R-16.

[AlienHealth]

Originally Posted by eltervaag

Ok. Just got my Zed R-16 today. It looks stunning.

I´m on a Mac DP 2 ghz PPC, OSX 10.4.11, running Logic 8

Installed the driver without the mixer connected. Restarted, powered up the mixer and plugged in the firewire.
My G5 sees the Zed in Systempref>Sound. I tick the In and Out for the Zed R-16.
Open up Audio/Midi Setup and things start to happen. Deafault Input says Built-In Audio. I can´t change it to Zed R 16. (The Mixer is in Firewire Mode on the back of the unit and it is set to 44.100)
Properties For is set to Zed R-16. Default Out and System Out is set to Built- In Audio. I cant change it.

On the Zeddice Control Panel everything is set as normal as i can see. 44.1khz, Operation Mode : Normal, Sync Source: Internal ( is that right?)
Status: Normal.

When i try to change the Sample Rate in the Zeddice Contrl Panel, things start to happen in the Audio Midi Setup-window. All the things that used to be set to Built-In Audio, is now set to Zed R-16.When I change it back to 44.1 it goes back to "normal" again.

Whats going on?

After many trys with the Sample Rate Settings it Locked on 44.1 khz, but it lost the connection every 5 sec.

I have my monitors hooked up through the CRM Outs. I get sound when I test the channels with a SM58. I dont get sound from the Audio Midi Setup Confi.Speakers even though System Out ect is set. If I open up iTunes to see if there is any sound from the computer, nothing happens. Should there be sound when System Output is set to Zed R-16?

I have uninstalled the driver and then reinstalled to see if that helped.

Hopefully someone can help me out with this. Maybe I have done something stupid?
This is my first mixer/centerpiece. And can´t wait to get it to work as it should
I replaced my Fireface 800 for the Zed R-16.

Hi eltervaag,
Firstly let's get iTunes set up & playing through channels 17 & 18 (the Digital stereo L-R channels back to the ZED-R16) so you can route them to your monitors with the switch just above the headphone socket.
Please try the procedure attached and let me know if this works as expected.
After this, we'll get set up with Logic.
Send me a private message if you need very a quick response, and also copy it to out Tech Support at http://allen-heath.helpserve.com
Kind regards,
Mike.

[ainternational]

Originally Posted by eltervaag

Ok. Just got my Zed R-16 today. It looks stunning.

I´m on a Mac DP 2 ghz PPC, OSX 10.4.11, running Logic 8

Installed the driver without the mixer connected. Restarted, powered up the mixer and plugged in the firewire.
My G5 sees the Zed in Systempref>Sound. I tick the In and Out for the Zed R-16.
Open up Audio/Midi Setup and things start to happen. Deafault Input says Built-In Audio. I can´t change it to Zed R 16. (The Mixer is in Firewire Mode on the back of the unit and it is set to 44.100)
Properties For is set to Zed R-16. Default Out and System Out is set to Built- In Audio. I cant change it.

On the Zeddice Control Panel everything is set as normal as i can see. 44.1khz, Operation Mode : Normal, Sync Source: Internal ( is that right?)
Status: Normal.

When i try to change the Sample Rate in the Zeddice Contrl Panel, things start to happen in the Audio Midi Setup-window. All the things that used to be set to Built-In Audio, is now set to Zed R-16.When I change it back to 44.1 it goes back to "normal" again.

Whats going on?

After many trys with the Sample Rate Settings it Locked on 44.1 khz, but it lost the connection every 5 sec.

I have my monitors hooked up through the CRM Outs. I get sound when I test the channels with a SM58. I dont get sound from the Audio Midi Setup Confi.Speakers even though System Out ect is set. If I open up iTunes to see if there is any sound from the computer, nothing happens. Should there be sound when System Output is set to Zed R-16?

I have uninstalled the driver and then reinstalled to see if that helped.

Hopefully someone can help me out with this. Maybe I have done something stupid?
This is my first mixer/centerpiece. And can´t wait to get it to work as it should
I replaced my Fireface 800 for the Zed R-16.

This is eerily similar with my initial troubles - I ended up trying it with my laptop, and then it miraculously sprang into life with my PPC G5.

Could this be an issue with the way the Zed driver interacts with Tiger/Logic (I'm on 10.4.11 running Logic 7.2.3)?

With Motu drivers, as soon as I switched the 828 off and on, Logic immediately saw the 828 and asked if you wanted to use it. this does not happen with the Zed R.

[eltervaag]

Thanks Mike. That worked like a charm.

At first it, the sound out from iTunes sounded like a broken record, but after changeing the samplerate from 44.1 to 96. and back again too 44.1, everything worked fine.

I´m in the middel of recording my debutalbum and I´ve been listening to the mixes alot. I have to say. This thing sounds amazing.

Now I´m looking forward to set it up properly in Logic 8 and to do some mixing on this beauty.

Again, thanks Mike.

Eltervaag

[rivalrysound]

so let's talk about using the r16 as an analog summing box, I'm not too sure about my current setup up but here it goes haha. I have all of my tracks being run back to the zed through mono outs with the "DIG RET Post EQ" selector pressed. I mix with the faders, and send those channels to LR. I then use the Studio 2 outs with the LR button pressed and run that back to two new channels and send them back into the daw with line level unity gain. If anyone else has some insight onto how they're using this board let's hear it! I'm just trying to get my mixes as humanly loud as possible haha

[Eddicuz]

Originally Posted by rivalrysound

so let's talk about using the r16 as an analog summing box, I'm not too sure about my current setup up but here it goes haha. I have all of my tracks being run back to the zed through mono outs with the "DIG RET Post EQ" selector pressed. I mix with the faders, and send those channels to LR. I then use the Studio 2 outs with the LR button pressed and run that back to two new channels and send them back into the daw with line level unity gain. If anyone else has some insight onto how they're using this board let's hear it! I'm just trying to get my mixes as humanly loud as possible haha

They way i record a mix back into the computer is simply by setting up a stereo track in logic and set the input to 17&18. Making sure all the tracks on the desk have the L-R buttons depressed and that all tracks i want to use from the DAW are sent to the desk too. (some tracks will have to be summed to single tracks on the desk)

obviously 17&18 the master stereo channels will hear and record anything passed through them.

Then, if you want it loud i would just use some of the mastering plugins from Logic or whatever DAW you use. (multi channel comp/ad limit/EQ's etc.)

Additional:

By recording through 17&18 in the DAW it also allows you to get creative in the mix realtime, adding effects through the aux busses and panning manually controlling levels etc! I like that. some may not but i do!

Thats what i do anyway! Sounds like routing the mix through the stereo 2 outs and back to the desk then to DAW is a bit complicated? if it works though!

Ed

[rivalrysound]

that's pretty much what I have, I just like having the control of the level pot on the studio feeds to control the main mix, it does seem a bit roundabout but I guess if it works haha it does sound beautiful though especially since I didn't record my last live project on the zed so it's nice to get some analogoodness in there someway

[malfunction]

is anyone using this mixer with PTLE?
I'm seriously considering buying one to incorporate in my existing set up. I'm thinking that it might give me a little more depth and width in my mixes whilst using it to sum my mixes by sending out stereo groups through the adat outputs into the mixer. I'd also use the mixers analog eq on the stereo groups then send the mix bus back into PTLE for mixdown.
I would also use it when recording taking advantage of the adat inputs together with my other outboard mic pres, API A2D, Great River, etc...

Opinions?

Thanks.

Grant

[eltervaag]

I just wanted to say that I had some sync problems with my setup. (G5 2 ghz Dual, osx 10.4.11)
I couldn´t get the midi to work. No signal. While mixing and doing some adjustments on some plugins, the out of sync started happening. (pops and click all the time)

Maby it was just my system. Everything started to get wierd. Programms didn´t quit. bla bla bla.

Then I desided to do a Eraze and Install to Leopard. Now everyrhing works like a charm. Midi, MMC, punch in the midi button ect. Love the EQ

So if you have the same system and the same problems I had, I would recomend doing an upgrade from Tiger to Leopard. Again. Could just be my setup/Mac

Thanks for your help Mike.

[malfunction]

eltervaag...

are you using pro tools software?

[eltervaag]

Logic Pro 8

[Tranxformer]

Hallo

I have a question for Mike from A&H.

I am very interested in buying a Zed R16 and have been following this thread closely.
Whilst the pres, eq and converter on the R16 look very impressive, there has been not much said about the mix/ summing bus, imho the most important element for analogue summing, which is what I would use the R16 for.
+21 dbu headroom seems ok but not amazing, other products I am considering, such as the TL Audio Fat Track or the Trident 8T 8 channels version offer at least 6 db more which, when it comes to the the crunch, can make a big difference.
The R16 would offer more channels, more eq and integrated quality converters, but is the mix buss up to the job or is it the same circuit that comes with the more modestly priced Zed series usb mixers?
Many thanks

[lovekrafty]

Another Question for Allen & Heath

After much monitoring of this thread I went ahead and ordered a ZED R16
today.

I've used 2 Echo Layla systems for nearly 10 years and figured it was
time for an upgrade, hope it's the right choice

My main concern is intergration into Nuendo , does the ZED have supported ASIO Drivers , is anyone using this with Nuendo / Cubase ?

I have a Mackie MCP / Extender so I won't use the MIDI

I also have a central station for monitoring ( bit confused on how to keep this in the loop.

I'm hoping theoretically to continue using the LAYLA though the ZED's ADAT I/O's to send alternative outs to my 5.1 system and add 8 line ins

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the best way to inegrate this into my system but stable drivers are my main concern

Also a question on using the analog eq as a " plug-in "
if you send out a digital track to the eq's and back in to the computer I assume you need to re-record it to a seperate track correct?

if you recorded it back to the same track youd be effectively erasing your track correct?

One other thing , I'm a bit concerned about the summed microphone / line - inputs on the channel strips , If I wanted to wire this to a patchbay would this configuration cause any problems?

Last but not least I have several good outboard mic pre's , what is everyone else doing to get outboard mic pres into the mixer ?

I'm sure I'll have lots more questions in the coming weeks, can't wait

Cheers
LoveKrafty

[lovekrafty]

Oops almost forgot , how long before vista 64 bit drivers are out?
and has anyone encountered problems / conflicts with focusrites
liquidmix ( it's firewire to )

Cheers
LoveKrafty

[microwave]

"...Or when we release some new firmware, you could have a configuration set with 18 channels on the FireWire bus and a further 16 simultaneously on ADAT"


Sounds great!!
Mike, is this due anytime soon??

[AlienHealth]

Originally Posted by Tranxformer

Hallo

I have a question for Mike from A&H.

I am very interested in buying a Zed R16 and have been following this thread closely.
Whilst the pres, eq and converter on the R16 look very impressive, there has been not much said about the mix/ summing bus, imho the most important element for analogue summing, which is what I would use the R16 for.
+21 dbu headroom seems ok but not amazing, other products I am considering, such as the TL Audio Fat Track or the Trident 8T 8 channels version offer at least 6 db more which, when it comes to the the crunch, can make a big difference.
The R16 would offer more channels, more eq and integrated quality converters, but is the mix buss up to the job or is it the same circuit that comes with the more modestly priced Zed series usb mixers?
Many thanks

Hi Tranxformer,
The ZED-R16 is ideal for use as an analogue summing mixer, either with analogue inputs or sourced from a digital multitrack system using the configuration switches on each channel to select the source. We use low noise bipolar op-amps as summing devices, and although headroom is stated as +21dB above nominal, the channel pan control and fader will have an effect on the headroom figure of the combined mix, effectively acting as trims. For example, a 0dBu signal pre-fade on a channel will be attenuated by 3dB when routed to the L&R buses with Pan in the centre, so the 21dB figure can be viewed as worst case if the pan controls are fully left (or right) and the fader is at unity. Obviously for lots of correlated, in phase signals you'd trim the faders down a tad, which goes for any multi-input device, in which case you would be setting the mix headroom to a higher figure manually depending on the nature of your mix.
Sorry if I've stated the obvious, let me know if you need more...
Kind Regards,
Mike.

[AlienHealth]

Originally Posted by lovekrafty

Another Question for Allen & Heath

After much monitoring of this thread I went ahead and ordered a ZED R16
today.

I've used 2 Echo Layla systems for nearly 10 years and figured it was
time for an upgrade, hope it's the right choice

My main concern is intergration into Nuendo , does the ZED have supported ASIO Drivers , is anyone using this with Nuendo / Cubase ?

I have a Mackie MCP / Extender so I won't use the MIDI

I also have a central station for monitoring ( bit confused on how to keep this in the loop.

I'm hoping theoretically to continue using the LAYLA though the ZED's ADAT I/O's to send alternative outs to my 5.1 system and add 8 line ins

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the best way to inegrate this into my system but stable drivers are my main concern

Also a question on using the analog eq as a " plug-in "
if you send out a digital track to the eq's and back in to the computer I assume you need to re-record it to a seperate track correct?

if you recorded it back to the same track youd be effectively erasing your track correct?

One other thing , I'm a bit concerned about the summed microphone / line - inputs on the channel strips , If I wanted to wire this to a patchbay would this configuration cause any problems?

Last but not least I have several good outboard mic pre's , what is everyone else doing to get outboard mic pres into the mixer ?

I'm sure I'll have lots more questions in the coming weeks, can't wait

Cheers
LoveKrafty

Hi LoveKrafty
Thanks for ordering your ZED-R16!
Yes ZED R's ASIO drivers should be fine with Nuendo - (although we haven't got Nuendo here, all is ok with Cubase).
You'll need to route to the additional ADAT channels using the Audio Options setup in your application/DAW as they are not mapped automatically if you're in FireWire mode. (The attached might explain better).
When using the EQ as an analogue plugin, you'd be safest to set up a new track in your DAW. If using the same track, it might be possible to do it but if I tried it I know full well that I'd get a feedback loop! Easier with a new track!
The summed Line into Mic input is a small compromise that means you can't have mic & line inputs plugged in together and switch between them. I can't see a problem with a patchbay though as long as you maintain the same rule (one input at a time), and ground the break contacts on the line jack sockets.
A 64bit XP/Vista working driver is just about to be released. (Hopefully this week).

Cheers,
Mike.

[Tranxformer]

Originally Posted by AlienHealth

Hi Tranxformer,
The ZED-R16 is ideal for use as an analogue summing mixer, either with analogue inputs or sourced from a digital multitrack system using the configuration switches on each channel to select the source. We use low noise bipolar op-amps as summing devices, and although headroom is stated as +21dB above nominal, the channel pan control and fader will have an effect on the headroom figure of the combined mix, effectively acting as trims. For example, a 0dBu signal pre-fade on a channel will be attenuated by 3dB when routed to the L&R buses with Pan in the centre, so the 21dB figure can be viewed as worst case if the pan controls are fully left (or right) and the fader is at unity. Obviously for lots of correlated, in phase signals you'd trim the faders down a tad, which goes for any multi-input device, in which case you would be setting the mix headroom to a higher figure manually depending on the nature of your mix.
Sorry if I've stated the obvious, let me know if you need more...
Kind Regards,
Mike.

Thanks for the reply Mike. I was thrown off by the proaudioreview.com review of the Zed R16 (Allen & Heath ZED-R16 Analog Mixing Console), which states that "maximum output level before clipping is a healthy +27 dBu".
So it really is 21 dbu at nominal.
Is the actual mix buss circuit the same design as the other Zed range mixers?

[microwave]

Interesting question from Transfomer. One thing I notice on mine is that incoming signals from Logic and even Itunes tend to show up as very hot on the R16 meters. I often have to turn the software master control on Logic to about 50% to avoid quickly running out of headroom on the R16. Is this normal? What sort of level on the Logic meters equals 0db on the R16's hardware meters, and is there any way of matching them?

[Savernake]

We have an ADAT machine at the studio I'm at, is it worth hooking this up with the zed r16? I'm confused of the advantage of this over just having as many tracks as you need in the computer.