What features/additions would you like to see in PTs

[Tony Shepperd]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Tony what about when the client wants multiple mixes(TV track, Acapella,Instrumental, vocal up,vocal down)?

I think if i am correct you make a 2 track first than bounce right?

With the original mix that's 6 tracked mixes and 6 bounces. If you use any limiting on the master fader and Pow-r dither, right now there is no way without bouncing it in real time which when its 2-3'oclock in the morning can easily take an extra 2-3 hours which most clients think is a courtesy they shouldn't pay for. Not to mention when they call up to make a slight change like they want the hi hat up and the backgrounds down a hair, you have to do all the passes over.

After a while it does become a real drag. That's why i wrote off line bouncing should be a choice if you want it.

I don't BTD. Haven't in years. I Record to Disc.
If the client wants versions, I create a playlist and RTD the next version.

So if the song was named So Damn Beautiful (like it was tonight):
The first mix, (first playlist) would be SDB_01.
Then I would create a new playlist and name it, SDB TV Mix_02.
Then the next playlist, SDB Instrumental_03.

Because I can recall a mix with practically no time for setup, I hardly ever do vocal ups.

[Makinithappen]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Tony what about when the client wants multiple mixes(TV track, Acapella,Instrumental, vocal up,vocal down)?
Not to mention when they call up to make a slight change like they want the hi hat up and the backgrounds down a hair, you have to do all the passes over.

As a guy that works on PTHD everyday, this is why I have an additional responsibility of telling the client about this inconvenience the very first session. I personally, dont make a capellas, instrumentals, show mixes, radio edits, Vox up or down or anything until the main mix is approved. Maybe send stems out to audio tracks to be exported....

I'm not disagreeing with you. Real time bounce sucks... (believe me, I know.)

I'm just saying that clients that are used to a professional studio (every pro place in St Louis is PTHD... I don't know about your neck of the woods) are already aware of this and factor in that time to the cost. New clients are told upfront and by the time they get their roughs after tracking, they know it well.

To uncle duncan I cant imagine the organizational nightmare that would be sending a band home with CDs of 5 different vocal takes for 3 songs for them to choose from. I would tell them to pick the best overall take and than tell me what they DON'T like instead of giving all 5 members 5 options and then having 5 guys trying to tell me what they DO like. (I do get paid by the hour though )

Back on topic....

In addition to some of the things that have already been said by other people... I would like to see

arppegiation integrated into MIDI
a "swing grid" without using Beat Detective
a couple factory software instruments
the "a" and "s" focus keys able to be used in shuffle mode
double clicking a region not bringing up the stupid Region Name dialogue
different marker "types"
the ability to import/not import "groups" in Import Session Data

I'm sure there are a lot of other things but thats the stuff I was complaining about earlier this week.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

I don't BTD. Haven't in years. I Record to Disc.
If the client wants versions, I create a playlist and RTD the next version.

So if the song was named So Damn Beautiful (like it was tonight):
The first mix, (first playlist) would be SDB_01.
Then I would create a new playlist and name it, SDB TV Mix_02.
Then the next playlist, SDB Instrumental_03.

Because I can recall a mix with practically no time for setup, I hardly ever do vocal ups.

I understand i RTD as well as BTD with the playlists as well.

My point is you have any limiting on the master fader and some POW-R dithering you have to BTD to get it on the version the client takes home. Also if you are working at a hgh rate (88.2 or 96K) you have to bounce and do some sample conversion correct? Or are you doing your sample conversion on an external program? Still you need to do an extra step to get it to a point where the client can take it home to listen to it.

Also if a client needs the TV track to take it to a show that night and needs it to really bang, there is no time to go to mastering so they need it sound nice and loud for the venue or club.

[EvilE]

Automatic delay compensation for plug-ins and hardware inserts in LE!!!! that's all i'm asking. elastic time is cool and all but really i just want ADC so bad! c'mon guys....all the other DAWs got it.

[EvilE]

oh yeah and a way to toggle between playlists would make comping much less mouse heavy and less strenuous on the old wrists.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Makinithappen

As a guy that works on PTHD everyday, this is why I have an additional responsibility of telling the client about this inconvenience the very first session. I personally, dont make a capellas, instrumentals, show mixes, radio edits, Vox up or down or anything until the main mix is approved. Maybe send stems out to audio tracks to be exported....

I'm not disagreeing with you. Real time bounce sucks... (believe me, I know.)

I'm just saying that clients that are used to a professional studio (every pro place in St Louis is PTHD... I don't know about your neck of the woods) are already aware of this and factor in that time to the cost. New clients are told upfront and by the time they get their roughs after tracking, they know it well.

.

I personally do the first 2 recalls for free in a mix as a common courtesy.


If i mixed exclusively with plug ins it wouldn't be as much as a pain which i figure that its what alot of the label clients these days are used to. But unfortunately i don't(i hardly use any plugins at all) even though i am mixing in PTHD exclusively these days. Even when i track the processing for recalls(which is a pain in itself and takes extra hours), i can't track everything, so yeah it can become a hassle(especially when you mix with tube gear which can sound different from day to day).

And most people because they have some kind of studio at home with a DAW i feel come in with the expectation that to do a recall and make a minor change should be an easy thing...even if you explain it to them or not.

So in their minds they shouldn't have to pay for it.

[jonathan_kristia]

Id just be happy with a phase reverse button on all mixer channels in PTLE. Why this feature wasnt there from the start is totally beyond me.

Plugin and hardware insert delay comp would be cool too.

[colinmiller]

So because one isn't using outboard gear, clients then feel they shouldn't have to pay for printing time? Forgetting that it's extremely rare and unusual to be paying by the hour, that doesn't quite seem right.

Mixing in PT HD is no different than mixing with outboard gear. Audio is traveling in realtime between DSP cards just like it would with outboard gear.

I think if clients are more worried about how much time they save and how much faster everything can be done, then PT isn't for them. That said, if that became the focus of my work, then I would quite the business.

Offline bouncing in HD will never ever happen.

[Makinithappen]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

I personally do the first 2 recalls for free in a mix as a common courtesy.

I think it's generous of you to do those recalls for free. Out of curiosity... does EVERY client take advantage of that? Does anyone ever just say "it's perfect... no recalls"

As of right now (although i hope not for long) most of our recalls have little or no outboard in the recall. A couple of compressors here or there but thats about it. I know everyone works differently .

[paintitblack]

If only i had a dollar for every one of these that pt allready offers.


a better sounding mix engine?
Its digital!! change your converter or something. pt's isnt creating a sound. its the converter.
am i wrong here??

[Makinithappen]

Originally Posted by paintitblack

If only i had a dollar for every one of these that pt allready offers.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Makinithappen

I think it's generous of you to do those recalls for free. Out of curiosity... does EVERY client take advantage of that? Does anyone ever just say "it's perfect... no recalls" .

Because its a "DAW" world i mix expecting it, so i would say the majority of clients do use it. Sometimes it works best for me since it gives them a chance to take it home and if am not getting what they are after, i can try a different approach to see if i can get more on their wavelength.

Also i rarely do everything in one day unless its a vocals against a 2 track so most mixes these days take a day and half, to two days. I don't spend more than 4-5 hours the first day anyway. I don't see the point and i just try to maximize the first impression in that time.

Whenever things take longer the first day is because there is preparation involved that has nothing to with mixing itself, which as we all know is real "thrill"killer.

Originally Posted by Makinithappen

As of right now (although i hope not for long) most of our recalls have little or no outboard in the recall. A couple of compressors here or there but thats about it. I know everyone works differently .

I hear you dude. I track the vocal analog processing early on since that is usually what i mix first and i feel my first instinct on the vocal sound always sounds best. Also since most songs are based around the vocals i like to have that down and just mix around it. The processing you really have no control over is what you use on the mixbuss. I try to stay away from using tube gear since it sounds best when the tubes are nice and hot and leaving tube gear on overnite like the old days is just out of the question. But lately i've been using my MP EQ on the mixbuss so from day to day its a hit or miss.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Tony what about when the client wants multiple mixes(TV track, Acapella,Instrumental, vocal up,vocal down)?

I think if i am correct you make a 2 track first than bounce right?

With the original mix that's 6 tracked mixes and 6 bounces. If you use any limiting on the master fader and Pow-r dither, right now there is no way without bouncing it in real time which when its 2-3'oclock in the morning can easily take an extra 2-3 hours which most clients think is a courtesy they shouldn't pay for. Not to mention when they call up to make a slight change like they want the hi hat up and the backgrounds down a hair, you have to do all the passes over.

After a while it does become a real drag. That's why i wrote off line bouncing should be a choice if you want it.

I'm just about to put down vox up/down mixes through our SSL... you can't offline bounce on that either.

It's not exactly a new trick, but of course you can put down a "master version, and bus that into another track through a limiter via an aux track (so you can monitor unlimited, but record a limited listening copy). So that's half the time saved.

As for putting down a quick mix to play in a club that night, I'm DEFINITELY going to put that one down whilst listening to it - and double check the CD plays!

Oh, I've thought of a feature - level metering for BTD (to show exactly what's bouncing)

Hands up who's BTD, burnt a CD...then found out you've bounced the wrong pair of outputs, and you've ended up with 3.30mins of silence on CD?!

[Beyersound]

Originally Posted by uncle duncan

So, if your client does 5 vocal takes on five songs, and then wants to take them all home to ponder, you're going to run each one in real time, adding another hour or two to his session bill? That's one way to pay for studio overhead. Unfortunately, when clients discover they don't have to put up with that if they go to a native DAW studio, you won't have to worry about studio overhead anymore, because you'll be out of business.

+1!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[peeder]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

I understand i RTD as well as BTD with the playlists as well.

My point is you have any limiting on the master fader and some POW-R dithering you have to BTD to get it on the version the client takes home. Also if you are working at a hgh rate (88.2 or 96K) you have to bounce and do some sample conversion correct? Or are you doing your sample conversion on an external program? Still you need to do an extra step to get it to a point where the client can take it home to listen to it.

Also if a client needs the TV track to take it to a show that night and needs it to really bang, there is no time to go to mastering so they need it sound nice and loud for the venue or club.

I don't see why you think you need to BTD. There's nothing BTD can do that RTD can't, other than avoiding the cmd-shift-K to export the recorded region as a file (with whatever SRC etc. you want). That adds maybe 2 seconds to RTD in practice.

Just apply the limiter and dither to the master fader on the bus feeding the audio track. If you put it on the audio track itself, you will monitor through it but not record it.

Also this partly addresses bgrotto's request for HPF/LPF on sends. You can put plugins on a master fader for any bus or any output...it will apply those to all the channels feeding it rather than being able to pick and choose, but it works.

If you want a fader post-insert on a master fader, add a trim plugin to the last insert slot. Not as convenient but identical in practice. The pre-insert master fader isn't actually a gain stage...it's just a coefficient on all the faders sending to that output or bus. I.e. it scales all the faders feeding it, rather than doing any gain of its own. This is nice to avoid the extra gain stage, and means that there is no need to alter tons of automation, say, if you end up heating a bus up too hot. Just use the master fader...it's there anyway whether you reveal it or not!

Another thing you ought to look into is memory locations with subsets of tracks visible and window arrangements. This allows you to set up your windows and track views as you wish and just move between them via memory locations window. You can set up a template for your mixes, where you bring all the client stuff into your template rather than vice-versa, and you always have your comfy arrangement at the ready.

[Full Clip Audio]

The fact is that almost any professional studio running HD is running outboard and until there is a magic way to run everything through outboard at hyper speed and then play it back at normal speed with the same results (obviously never), than real time bouncing is here to stay. I dont get why people complain. The reason other apps work this way is because they are not geared to work as a tape machine integrated with hardware. Would the people complaining rather it was back to doing things with tape? Seriously.

Also, if a client is so tight on time that they are worried about the time its going to take to bounce, they should probably go home and practice for a few more weeks so they know their parts and are more organized for the session. They are MUCH more likely to be able to make up free hours there.


The only exception I see to this is post stuff but then again, most major post facilities doing big, long projects are not using Pro Tools as far as I know.

[narcoman]

agree with Tony n peeder n psych n a few others.

I can only say it so many times - you still have to check it.

Polarity reverse on each channel - yup.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by uncle duncan

So, if your client does 5 vocal takes on five songs, and then wants to take them all home to ponder, you're going to run each one in real time, adding another hour or two to his session bill? That's one way to pay for studio overhead. Unfortunately, when clients discover they don't have to put up with that if they go to a native DAW studio, you won't have to worry about studio overhead anymore, because you'll be out of business.

I think we're talking in crossed worlds! My clients definitely do not pay by the hour! I will add that anytime anyone has requested such a thing I say no. Nothing to do with BTD or RTD - if they want to ponder it - they ponder it here. There is no hourly money clock ticking on them! NOTHING leaves he studio until it's paid for . And i mean NOTHING.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by Full Clip Audio

most major post facilities doing big, long projects are not using Pro Tools

Huh?

[Tony Shepperd]

Originally Posted by Full Clip Audio

The only exception I see to this is post stuff but then again, most major post facilities doing big, long projects are not using Pro Tools as far as I know.

I don't know about Phoenix, but here in LA all of the big post houses are using PT HD.
3MC (now level 3) had at least 30 HD systems running.

[kafka]

I would like to be able to drop-and-drag from the region list onto the desktop.
And if there were some way to figure out what's gone wrong when a session decides it's just going to permanently hang on startup.

[Full Clip Audio]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

I don't know about Phoenix, but here in LA all of the big post houses are using PT HD.
3MC (now level 3) had at least 30 HD systems running.

Hmm interesting. I thought most of the major places were using Pyramix.

[seansolo]

I like listening to the bounce - it is usually the only time the client hears it all the way thru with level cranked!

~ playlists for automation. When you have 100 tracks, dup'ing tracks for a different pass is a pain (and I save-as too much already!)

~ shortcut for playlists

~ short cut for exporting region groups (already tried to teach OSX - and although it shows up in the audio menu under region bin, it won't work).

~ importing groups is a good one.

~ markers needs to be sorted out. (or Locations now, I guess). Window configs are getting closer, but I need two different marker lists. I'm tired of remembering that point-125-point is show my drums or my dialog, etc. I know. I have brain-cell-depletion-syndrome.

[Berolzheimer]

Originally Posted by Bounce

I second much of the above.

Also, it would be cool to have a playlist type feature for the comments section. Maybe users could even color code each comment page (that part may be lame haha)

i.e. you could have notes specific to the tracking phase such as mic, pre, comp used on a green comment background, then separate comments for editing stage such as drums nudged forward 20ms or such on yellow, then possibly mixing notes such as lead vocal through space echo yada yada. Often there are separate sessions created for all these phases but sometimes it's cool to know what's coming in from other phases of recording, etc. and "hey, what's that bass tone all about? ah, jazz bass through fuzzface into a jbl eon nudged back 10ms...freaky"

Yes, comments that stayed with a playlist would be great- so as you're recording takes you can be keeping notes about the performances, and then as you're sorting through takes you'd see the notes for each take when you bring it up.

[seansolo]

One more as just suggested to me -

- a way to make the waveforms transparent to see the grid behind them so you don't have to have an aux nearby..

Is anyone from digi watching this thread?