Benchmark DAC1 and Lavry DA10

[shenrei]

So....I ended up getting both of them.



I have been auditioning both units for the past couple of hours, trying to decide which one I am going to keep. I can't begin to tell you how difficult this decision is Both units are fantastic, one can't really go wrong with either of them. I'll also have to say both have a completely different sound. It's just a matter of taste and which one works best for you.

At the moment, I'm slowly leaning toward the Benchmark, but every time I make the switch to the Lavry, it just makes my decision all the more harder.

[heisleyamor]

I've been hearing the da10 beats out the benchmark most of the time. What monitors are you listening on? Some say that the benchmark starts to get a little grainy in the very high end and is a little 2d when the da10 is a little more 3d and a little more clear in the higher frequencies.

[peeder]

My DA10 has inverted polarity from the factory. Try putting the polarity in "invert" and keep the clock on "crystal". The repeatable volume is worth the price of admission IMO.

What is your monitoring & treatment setup. I hope the air conditioner is off...

[Glenn Bucci]

A have a friend who worked for the BBC for many years, he just loves the Benchmark DAC, and he has heard many others before he bought the Benchmark. Like you said, they are both great and you will not go wrong with either one. They both have their own flavor.

[staudio]

That photo makes me smile.

[shenrei]

I've been hearing that the Lavry DA10 beats out the Benchmark as well, but after auditioning both, I'm gonna have to say apples and oranges. I don't really hear any grain on the DAC1, if anything, its attributed to its very dry, yet airy sound. I honestly feel that the Benchmark sounds a bit more flat than the Lavry, with its airy sound contributing to a greater depth in the sound image. However, YMMV.
The Lavry on the other hand, is aurally more pleasurable to listen to, and is transparent as well....just in a different way, to me anyway.

Peeder, thanks for the tip. I do have the switch inverted. I came across an older post of yours in which you did state that you were having problems with your DA10 falling silent. How did that work out?

[peeder]

Originally Posted by shenrei

I've been hearing that the Lavry DA10 beats out the Benchmark as well, but after auditioning both, I'm gonna have to say apples and oranges. I don't really hear any grain on the DAC1, if anything, its attributed to its very dry, yet airy sound. I honestly feel that the Benchmark sounds a bit more flat than the Lavry, with its airy sound contributing to a greater depth in the sound image. However, YMMV.
The Lavry on the other hand, is aurally more pleasurable to listen to, and is transparent as well....just in a different way, to me anyway.

Peeder, thanks for the tip. I do have the switch inverted. I came across an older post of yours in which you did state that you were having problems with your DA10 falling silent. How did that work out?

It stopped having the problem after I switched to using the AES input rather than coax SPDIF. So I forgot about the problem...

[kdeuce]

Haven't heard the DA10 but I bought the Benchmark a couple of months ago for use with the Digi 003. Couldn't be happier. I know more expensive, better sounding converters exist, but compared to the 003 converters, the DAC-1 gives me a nice flat response, fuller bass and better translation.

Works 4 me----my .02

[Rev. Robb]

I love my Benchmark DAC-1. The headphone amp is awesome!

[staudio]

Originally Posted by Rev. Robb

I love my Benchmark DAC-1. The headphone amp is awesome!

To those of you who have used both, how do the headphone amps compare, and what cans are you using with them?

[Mr. Nice]

regarding headphone amp

had both mentioned units and tested them with the following headphones:

ultrasone edition 9
senn HD650 HD600
grado hp1000, (rs-1 various pairs) (various pairs, gs1000)

both can drive any can pretty easily and though most praise the DAC1s head-amp, i found the DA10 to be smoother and i really liked that. it's all subjective obviously, and they are both nice units so their is no wrong choice. personally, im now running a Grace M902 strictly because of certain features i currently need, but i still like the sound of the DA10 more.

i think you should look at features more than anything when comparing these units and choose whichever suits you best for the time being.

[staudio]

Thanks Mr. Nice

[shenrei]

After spending more time with both units, I can say I prefer the sound of the Lavry...slightly. What confuses me however is the fact that the horizontal soundstage on the Benchmark seems...well easier. By easier, I mean it's easier to pick out the instruments position and direction on the Benchmark. Same thing with soundstage depth. It's easier to pick out whether instruments are on the front or the back on the Benchmark, as opposed to the Lavry. This is really confusing me, especially after reading so many reviews that the Lavry's imaging triumphs over the Benchmark, and it should be clear that the imaging on the Lavry is better.

[peeder]

Yes the DA10 does hide reverb a bit compared to many other DACs. To me, it makes the instruments more distinct and better sounding, rather than "oh here's some reverb." But if you are really keen on hearing reverb for itself, other DACs might be a better choice.

I haven't heard the DAC-1 but I'd say the DA10 is about as wide a soundstage as it gets, at least in this price level...

[staudio]

Have you checked the Benchmark with the polarity reversed to see if it is not absolute like the adjustment you made on the Lavry?

[Rev. Robb]

Originally Posted by staudio

To those of you who have used both, how do the headphone amps compare, and what cans are you using with them?

I have not heard the DA10.

I have Sen. HD600's Awesome combination with my DAC-1. Audio bliss!

I can't imagine anyone being unhappy with the DAC-1.

[shenrei]

Originally Posted by peeder

Yes the DA10 does hide reverb a bit compared to many other DACs. To me, it makes the instruments more distinct and better sounding, rather than "oh here's some reverb." But if you are really keen on hearing reverb for itself, other DACs might be a better choice.

I haven't heard the DAC-1 but I'd say the DA10 is about as wide a soundstage as it gets, at least in this price level...

To me they are both equally wide, it's just that it's easier to distinguish pan settings on the Benchmark. The reason for this might be the field depth. It almost sounds as if the Lavry is hitting an invisible wall, albeit, without any reflections. As I mentioned earlier, it's easier for me to hear whats in front and what's in the back easier on the Benchmark.

However, in the end, the Lavry still sounds better. It's just weird.


Staudio: There is no polarity switch on the Benchmark, but it sounds fine. If changing polarity means doing modifications on my cable, then that's pretty much out of my area.

[shenrei]

The whole polarity issue is confusing me. Should I be hearing a difference in the audio between reverse/normal polarity with a balanced XLR cable configuration?

My signal chain is Mixer Digital RCA out ---> Lavry DA10 XLR balanced out ---> balanced XLR in of monitors. I have nothing analog turned on in my mixer that I am using right now, so at the moment it is all digital. Yet when flipping the polarity switch on the Lavry DA10, I can hear significant differences in the audio playback.

[Bob Olhsson]

The original Benchmark DAC-1 that I won here in the forum and use at home can be a bit picky about loads. I've heard it sound only OK in a few cases while I've also heard it absolutely trounce $6000 converters in others. I understand their new USB capable version has a less fussy line driver.

I've grown to really trust it for uncovering problems and would need to spend a lot of time with anything else I thought sounded better to be sure it wasn't just hype. Really good sounding stuff sounds really good while ordinary stuff sounds ordinary.

[lexx00]

Have my DAC1 for 4 happy years, never a/b-d it with the Lavry, but did with a Rosetta 200 and the UA box...DAC-1 always seemed totally uncolored and revealing. I disagree about the high end, and I am listening on Adam's. Just spent a couple of days with Scott Hull...he has DAC1's everywhere.
my 1/2 kopeck.

[staudio]

Originally Posted by shenrei

The whole polarity issue is confusing me. Should I be hearing a difference in the audio between reverse/normal polarity with a balanced XLR cable configuration?

My signal chain is Mixer Digital RCA out ---> Lavry DA10 XLR balanced out ---> balanced XLR in of monitors. I have nothing analog turned on in my mixer that I am using right now, so at the moment it is all digital. Yet when flipping the polarity switch on the Lavry DA10, I can hear significant differences in the audio playback.

This is from the Lavry DA10 manual:

-The POLARITY switch affects the polarity of the reproduced audio waveform (which is
sometimes referred to as “absolute phase”). This means that when in a system without any “polarity inversions,” a recorded sound such as a drum beat is reproduced, the speaker will move towards the listener momentarily raising the pressure in the room, similar to the motion of the drum head. The perceived effect of incorrect Polarity can vary widely depending on the content of the music program.


It seems to me as though you have a system/environment that is allowing you to hear the difference. Since you prefer using the polarity switch on the Lavry in the Invert position it would suggest that either the Lavry is wired pin 3 hot, or your cables are reversing polarity, or your speakers are reversing polarity, or a combination. Not any of this is a problem but it should be the answer to your question.

[shenrei]

Yep, Pin3 is indeed wired hot. I am rather wondering why I am hearing a difference in the polarity being switched, because I am running a completely balanced configuration. I always thought a polarity change would only be audible if running an unbalanced configuration. Though I am no expert on this, so I may or may not be wrong.

[staudio]

Originally Posted by shenrei

Yep, Pin3 is indeed wired hot. I am rather wondering why I am hearing a difference in the polarity being switched, because I am running a completely balanced configuration. I always thought a polarity change would only be audible if running an unbalanced configuration. Though I am no expert on this, so I may or may not be wrong.

Polarity is an aspect of all analog audio connections, balanced and unbalanced.

[peeder]

Polarity inversions are inaudible...but only on ideal speakers.

Since ideal speakers are at least a millenium from being developed, you can see for yourself with a sawtooth wave (NNNNNNNN) how different the polarities actually sound in practice.

[bcgood]

That photo with the window AC in the background is classic! The home studio revolution is definitely in effect boyeeee!

[shenrei]

Lol, a friend of mine was making fun of me for that. He said "You have two awesome DACs in front of....CHEAP ASS AIR CONDITIONER!!"

Update: I decided to audition the Lavry's narrow mode again, and I'm really liking what I'm hearing. I think I prefer it over the Crystal PLL, almost as if the seperation is slightly clearer, at the cost of some extremely slight high end bite, which may or may not be your thing.

[author]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

I've grown to really trust it for uncovering problems and would need to spend a lot of time with anything else I thought sounded better to be sure it wasn't just hype.

I think it's about time you win a Lavry DA10, so we can get your opinion on that!

[The Beatsmith]

Sorry, i'm still confused about the polarity thing on my DA-10. I have never taken it off 'normal'. Should i invert it? Under what circumstances should i change it?

I'll experiment tonight to see if i can hear any difference. I'm running the lavry into Adam S3A's.

Thanks

[peeder]

Originally Posted by shenrei

Update: I decided to audition the Lavry's narrow mode again, and I'm really liking what I'm hearing. I think I prefer it over the Crystal PLL, almost as if the seperation is slightly clearer, at the cost of some extremely slight high end bite, which may or may not be your thing.

I initially thought narrow was a bit better too...but what's happening is a bunch of energy is migrating to the mids from the lows and highs. The separation is not better; but the material appears louder. Crystal is mellower, rounder, wider and I think it it's a purer presentation.

Anyway it's two different tones out of the same box. If you like narrow or wide best of all, fine with me...

[shenrei]

Originally Posted by The Beatsmith

Sorry, i'm still confused about the polarity thing on my DA-10. I have never taken it off 'normal'. Should i invert it? Under what circumstances should i change it?

I'll experiment tonight to see if i can hear any difference. I'm running the lavry into Adam S3A's.

Thanks

The DA10 has polarity wired for Pin 3 hot, so in most cases IMO, you would need to invert it.

Peeder: I did read somewhere on the Lavry forums where Dan was describing the functions of each PLL, I'll have to look for the post, and though he prefers Crystal, he mentions that the wide mode is identical with the Benchmark DAC1s way of dealing with audio, while Narrow is a more regular way of dealing with audio. I can't remember his exact words. I do agree that Crystal sounds rounder and slightly wider, but to my ears narrow is a bit more mellow.