How can you describe DAW's sound?

[IzzyRock]

I know this has been discussed before. The sound between DAWs.
But , how can you describe these differences, if any?
Like, Cubase sounds more warm? PT sounds....., etc

I work on Cubase, and I really can't compare side by side with another DAW. And honestly, I'm not mixing the same song on different systems just to compare. So, I would like to hear your thoughts on this, based on your experience.

[Mr.HOLMES]

Like, Cubase sounds more warm? PT sounds....., etc

And the myth is going on.
There are hardly to hear any difrences between daws.

It is 0/1 not a mixing desk!!!!!

Everything else happens in your brain because you want to hear differences.

[IzzyRock]

That's exactly what I want to hear from you
I only read things about this, but never found out if it's true or not

Thanks

[Mr.HOLMES]

I just can tell it for me I heard files on a german forum.

LOGIC
PT HD
Cubase/Nuendo

For me not a big deal but a big example for what people hear if they want to hear differences. Some people also mentioned that Logic is not that tight in timing as Cubase....holy CRAP!!!

These kind of people which are claiming that they hear big differences in sound and timing are in my eyes boa****l and self important people.

I agree that the PT HD sound may is a little better because of the good AD/DA that is in my ears that subtle that I also have ask myself if it is for real.

[Mr.HOLMES]

There is another idea.

Take a song you have to master.
Do one mastering in logic write down everything you have done.
Take the same file master it with the same plug ins in Cubase.

Bounce both and bring them both into any DAW.
Play them back and switch the phase on one file.

What you will hear is silence because the files are 100% identical and they erase them self during the phase switch.

[Corran]

Yeah I'm surprised someone hasn't had a basic mixdown with several DAWS and shown conclusively that they are 100% identical on like a Youtube vid or something. If I had access to more than just Sonar I'd do it myself.

[Mr.HOLMES]

Originally Posted by Corran

Yeah I'm surprised someone hasn't had a basic mixdown with several DAWS and shown conclusively that they are 100% identical on like a Youtube vid or something. If I had access to more than just Sonar I'd do it myself.

Yeah this is a big problem because you could only ride the volume on identical Plug Ins not on a fader.
You will need all the same plug ins on the same system.

Do the mastering test.... there will be no difference even if you wish it would.

This is DAW and not a Neve vs. SSL comparison.
Creating sound in DAW is IMO a matter how to use the Plug Ins.
If you have identical settings on the plug ins there will be no difference.

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by IzzyRock

I know this has been discussed before. The sound between DAWs.
But , how can you describe these differences, if any?
Like, Cubase sounds more warm? PT sounds....., etc

I work on Cubase, and I really can't compare side by side with another DAW. And honestly, I'm not mixing the same song on different systems just to compare. So, I would like to hear your thoughts on this, based on your experience.

PTHD sounds kinda smooth
PT LE sounds hard and rigid
Nuendo/cubase4 sounds 'soft' and muddy
Reaper sounds smooth
Sonar sounds 'grainy'
Samplitude sounds just right though I dislike the gui


I will say Nuendo 1.6 sounds much like Samplitude but is old an kinda slow
I will occasionally mix on it just for it's superb sound

I like Samp and Reaper the best sonically speaking
workflow and speed? Cubase/Nuendo all the way

[shaneoconnor]

this is the biggest load of rubbish i have ever heard.


seriously.

i think if the people in this forum understood what was going on behind these programs, they would think twice about thinking of the differences in this way.

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by shaneoconnor

this is the biggest load of rubbish i have ever heard.


seriously.

i think if the people in this forum understood what was going on behind these programs, they would think twice about thinking of the differences in this way.

huh?

they all have a certain sound. Good or bad all DAW's sound different.
I think if you knew "what was going on behind these programs"
youd know this. Or do you already know this?

I've never written a DAW nor could I. but I have written plenty apps that playback
and process pcm files throughout the years. Also written a couple vst plugs.
Not all software apps are created equal since not all software developers are created equal.

[Corran]

Do you mind mixing down some basic tracks in each one and posting clips? I'm dubious, to say the least, but I'm always willing to listen to some proof.

[MarkRB]

I equate DAW engine sound to different tape brand sound.

It is pretty insignificant, all things considered.

I generally prefer the sound of Logic but won't use it because it's so stupid and annoying to work with. Nothing I do suffers from DAW engine problems because pretty much everything else makes much more of a difference.

[dbbubba]

Am I understanding correctly when some of you guys say that if you used exact plugs and exact settings everywhere else two different mix platforms would sound the same?

I hope that people are smarter than this on this forum.

Are you seriously telling me that you are recording and/or performing music that is good enough to matter what platform it was recorded or mixed on?
A bit naive or self absorbed?

[Crankitup]

I'm pretty sure that I've noticed a difference between Logic and Cubase/Nuendo... Logic seems thicker and smoother... I do feel slightly idiotic after saying that though

[Cabbage]

Just playing back tracks will sound exactly the same. I am positive the summing is identical, they just add up the numbers, though there is a possibility that some manufacturers would add some distortion to emulate analog, but I doubt they do. (Having said that, PT Mix had a bad reputation for summing, if anyone know why that was, I would be interested to hear it.)

If you use sample rate conversion and such from the DAW, they will sound somewhat different. I heard that PT HD is not very good at this. Not to mention time stretch, pitch shifting and all that.

Of course the plug-ins you use may be different, and that would influence the sound.

If you use good plug-ins and good SRC (such as Voxengo) you should be fine with any DAW. The fact that there is a debate must indicate that the differences are not very big.

Petter

[BigAl]

Comparing DAW Mixers - 3dB

Awesome DAWSUM Samples - 3dB

[IzzyRock]

So. 9 pages of blah blah and no thoughts??

I ain't buying that CDdfegad

[Dean7]

Well, my understanding of it is: there CAN'T be any difference in the recording of these DAWs. All they are doing is taking the signal from your AD interface and printing it to disk during the recording phase. So, if you use one interface on 3 different pieces of software to record the same signal the WAV files printed to disk will be exactly the same.

However, they COULD possibly be using a different summing algorithm, which could explain a difference in audio during playback. But that probably wouldn't be a huge difference anyway because any difference should be pretty small. It certainly wouldn't be the difference between "warm" and "harsh", etc.

Mind you, I'm not an expert here and I could be wrong, but I'm just explaining things based on my limited understanding (and if anybody wants to prove me wrong I'd love to learn more about things).

Thanks,

-Dean

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by dbbubba

Are you seriously telling me that you are recording and/or performing music that is good enough to matter what platform it was recorded or mixed on?
A bit naive or self absorbed?

yeah we all can't record Led Zep covers............

Believe it or not some folks on here actually make records.
maybe you don't.

[Dean7]

Originally Posted by allencollins

yeah we all can't record Led Zep covers............

Believe it or not some folks on here actually make records.
maybe you don't.

+1

It doesn't matter if you make records that other people listen to. Some people are just obsessed with quality (I'm one of them) and want to get to the bottom of these issues (like whether or not one piece of software sounds better than another). To give them an answer like "too bad... you don't deserve to know unless you record platinum hits" is just insulting. fuuck

(btw, allen, lest you get confused by my post, I'm agreeing with you... haha)

[heisleyamor]

I thought DAWs all had the same sound. But after I listened to some drums I tracked on Sonar 7.0 producer edition I swear it was a lot more clear and less hazy as Adobe Audition 3.0. Could be wrong though...I didn't just paste the drum track either it was 2 seperate recordings in each DAW.

[dbbubba]

Originally Posted by allencollins

yeah we all can't record Led Zep covers............

Believe it or not some folks on here actually make records.
maybe you don't.

Are you trying to be funny?

I'm confused... are you referring to the THIRTY ONE YEAR-OLD YouTube video of my band recording a Led Zepplin cover in 1977?
Yeah... that's all I have done.
Thirty-one years of Led Zepplin covers.
I have not recorded ONE record in all of those years.

BTW... what did your studio have in 1977?
I had a 1" Ampex AG-440B-300 and what would now be a near priceless all tube 16 x3 UA console.
You saw it I guess.

Now.. if you were being funny I apologize for the acerbic response.
If you weren't... try harder.

Hey? Where's the picture of the actual Allen Collins you used to use as a pic?

[Dean7]

Originally Posted by heisleyamor

I thought DAWs all had the same sound. But after I listened to some drums I tracked on Sonar 7.0 producer edition I swear it was a lot more clear and less hazy as Adobe Audition 3.0. Could be wrong though...I didn't just paste the drum track either it was 2 seperate recordings in each DAW.

Well, if it were drums then the performance would have a lot to do with the difference. That seems a lot more likely to me than the DAW making a difference.

-Dean

[Dean7]

Originally Posted by dbbubba

Are you trying to be funny?

I'm confused... are you referring to the THIRTY ONE YEAR-OLD YouTube video of my band recording a Led Zepplin cover in 1977?
Yeah... that's all I have done.
Thirty-one years of Led Zepplin covers.
I have not recorded ONE record in all of those years.

BTW... what did your studio have in 1977?
I had a 1" Ampex AG-440B-300 and what would now be a near priceless all tube 16 x3 UA console.
You saw it I guess.

Now.. if you were being funny I apologize for the acerbic response.
If you weren't... try harder.

Hey? Where's the picture of the actual Allen Collins you used to use as a pic?

Why can't we all just get along?

[jmarkham]

Originally Posted by Corran

Yeah I'm surprised someone hasn't had a basic mixdown with several DAWS and shown conclusively that they are 100% identical on like a Youtube vid or something. If I had access to more than just Sonar I'd do it myself.

You would be surprised. They sound different.

jeff

[Dean7]

Originally Posted by jmarkham

You would be surprised. They sound different.

jeff

That seems highly unlikely. The only way to be sure would be to re-amp a guitar track through each DAW or something like that. Drums/vocals/etc. change too much from performance to performance to be of any real use when trying to track down as subtle of a change as this.

-Dean

[Corran]

Originally Posted by jmarkham

You would be surprised. They sound different.

jeff

As much as I love blindly believing people, the point I was making was I wish there were some serious tests to prove one way or the other.

Originally Posted by heisleyamor

either it was 2 seperate recordings in each DAW.

Yeah...not likely you can compare two completely different sessions.

[dbbubba]

Originally Posted by Dean7

Why can't we all just get along?

Sometimes I just get tired of the B.S.

[skatingbasser]

PT LE sounds very sterile, plain, or uninteresting/unmusical to me compared to Logic.

Could very well be all in my head. I make better mixes in Logic, so there I go.

[Mike Derrick]

I took 24 tracks of audio files from a ProT session and imported in a Nuendo session. Tried a mono sum for boths DAWs and a stereo sum. The result was that I couldn't hear a difference between the resulting stereo mixes or the mono mixes. Line them up ProT vs Nuendo side by side, invert the phase on one,....they cancel out to infinity. THEY ARE IDENTICAL.

The question is WHY should they sound different if you are of the belief that they DO sound different. If that were true,...somehow your printed audio file going into and through your DAW is not the same at the end of the signal path in the DAW,...which means your DAW is altering the sound of all your audio files. But this is clearly not true. If it were you would not be able to run an audio file through your DAW with everything at unity and have it come out identical to the source audio file. Try it with any old CD audio file.

There are some reasons why a DAW may happen to sound different, one is panning laws. If you panning laws in each platform differ from each other, then it is likely that a stereo mix will sound different. BUT all things being equal,...all DAWs will sum to infinity.

Also if you're listening to different DAW platforms on different converters, there is a chance for you to hear the same audio file ever so slightly differently.

Also it's darn easy to fool ourselves into thinking there are differences when we are hearing the exact same audio.

If you read through the 3D audio site's awesome daw-sum forum about the awesome daw-sum test, you'll realize that the conclusion of the matter was that the DAWs are all identical. I can't remember in which thread that gets realized and concluded, but it's there somewhere. I read through that whole forum at one point.

But you can do a test for yourself if you happen to have access to more than one DAW. Those of you who "think" there are differences should really conduct a test or two,..if you already haven't.

So no, it's not like different types of tapes or anything like that. It's math, and if it's wrong, so would your audio be wrong, and you'd hear it, without a doubt.

They all sound the same.

stike