SmartAV Tango DAW Controller

[Nowak]

The guys at SAV are working on showing EQ/Dyn graphs, I don't understand why that would be the reason you would buy the console.

The plug ins themselves don't show graphs do they?

I do agree that seeing the EQ/Dyn graph inline is great but it wouldn't be the deal breaker for me.

I tried the console with URS plug ins and they work quite well on the 16 encoders. The 1 active/motorised pot helps a great deal for plug ins that are a bit wacky on the encoders.

2.3.3 is rocking, HUI alpha is working well too.....

Stef

[Nantho]

Does anyone know where to find this beauty in France ?

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by Nowak

The plug ins themselves don't show graphs do they?

its not necessarily a graph that is wanted, its just a representation of approximately what eq'ing you have on any given channel at a glance, much like an analog console

narco

[laser]

Originally Posted by narco

its not necessarily a graph that is wanted, its just a representation of approximately what eq'ing you have on any given channel at a glance, much like an analog console

narco

Exactly. If I'm not using Nuendo's or Logic's EQ/Compressor, I would like the parameters of plug-in EQ/Compressor to be in the primary position on the screen and the knobs immediately accessable.

I seldom use graphs.

Laser

[HHaynes]

Originally Posted by laser

Exactly. If I'm not using Nuendo's or Logic's EQ/Compressor, I would like the parameters of plug-in EQ/Compressor to be in the primary position on the screen and the knobs immediately accessable.

I seldom use graphs.

Laser

You're kidding, right?



You get more from knob positions than from graphs?



I find it completely unfathomable that you *can't* get more information from a quick glance at a graphic representation of and EQ curve. If that's true - and if you're sincere - I simply don't think that I can be any further help to you. Good luck in your search for a console solution - the Tango may someday have the flexibility to give you the look that you want, but I can't mark the time with you while you wait - I've got too much work to do.

[walks away from thread with his head in his hands]

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by HHaynes

You're kidding, right?

I think you misunderstood.

If you read the last few posts through it should make sense.

He wants some kind of representation of 3rd party eqs on the channels.

Not all eq's have graphs as their method of displaying information, so one poster above asks why you would want graphs.

he then said (meant) that it didn't have to be a graph, just some kind of representation. Not to say that it could not be a graph either.

narco

[Nowak]

I'm quite sure the guys at SAV are going to make this happen, it's quite an engineering feat as plug ins don't send graph info down the line to the controller......they have ideas to get around this however.......these guys are very very clever.

Stef

[sweetmojo]

Just a general comment, sorry if I am off topic. It seems like a lot of quality and innovation is coming out of Australia these days! Way to go!!

[laser]

Originally Posted by narco

I think you misunderstood.

If you read the last few posts through it should make sense.

He wants some kind of representation of 3rd party eqs on the channels.

Not all eq's have graphs as their method of displaying information, so one poster above asks why you would want graphs.

he then said (meant) that it didn't have to be a graph, just some kind of representation. Not to say that it could not be a graph either.

narco

LOL! Exactly right, again!

Narco, I'm going to have to hire you as my intepreter.

Houston, I know this is going to surprise a lot of people, but I use my ears when adjusting an EQ or compressor. If I'm having a problem identifying or correcting a troublesome frequency (or theshold, ect.), it's only then I look at the value. A very quick look at the value and I usually can see where I'm going wrong. If that doesn't work, it's only then I look at the graph.

My hardware equipment doesn't have graphs and I almost always find exactly what I'm looking for. I like graphs a lot. But, I use them as secondary problem solvers, not a primary decision maker. I could use either a graph or values, but my eye naturally (and quickly) goes to the value first, then the graph.

I like the Tango because, unlike a lot of controllers in its price range and/or size, it potentially puts these things quickly at my disposal. The fewer buttons or tabs or scrolls to get to usable information or controls, the better.

Thanks, all! Other than having to defend what once was some pretty standard mixing principals, you're information has been extremely valuable.

Laser

[HHaynes]

Originally Posted by laser

Houston, I know this is going to surprise a lot of people, but I use my ears when adjusting an EQ or compressor. If I'm having a problem identifying or correcting a troublesome frequency (or theshold, ect.), it's only then I look at the value. A very quick look at the value and I usually can see where I'm going wrong. If that doesn't work, it's only then I look at the graph.

No worries - I use my ears primarily as well - but once I dial it in, I use the visual reference in situations such as an EQ with the strange curve that might be causing something to "dive out of" or "punch through" a mix unexpectedly. Using the MonARC to scan through those values visually is incredibly fast.

For the auditory check process, this too is very quick. It's a matter of solo'ing one of the channels in the fader panel. Then selecting the inject touch point and pressing the Hold button at the bottom of the strip. This lets you zero in on an "offending" track by just wiping your fingertip across the MonARC strip at the top of the screen. You don't have to activate solo for this to work, but it helps.

I'll add this to some videos I'll be shooting this week - to show what I mean. Anyway, I think we have a great deal more overlap in our approach than at first read-through.

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by laser

Houston, I know this is going to surprise a lot of people, but I use my ears when adjusting an EQ or compressor. If I'm having a problem identifying or correcting a troublesome frequency (or theshold, ect.), it's only then I look at the value. A very quick look at the value and I usually can see where I'm going wrong. If that doesn't work, it's only then I look at the graph.

My hardware equipment doesn't have graphs and I almost always find exactly what I'm looking for. I like graphs a lot. But, I use them as secondary problem solvers, not a primary decision maker. I could use either a graph or values, but my eye naturally (and quickly) goes to the value first, then the graph.

I like the Tango because, unlike a lot of controllers in its price range and/or size, it potentially puts these things quickly at my disposal. The fewer buttons or tabs or scrolls to get to usable information or controls, the better.
r

Yes you got the point!

I also have a Frontier Designs Alphatrack, it has 3 rotary encoders, I can access most parameters from there, but getting to the one that I intend to adjust is a pain in the ...

The graphs and the color coded parameters are a way to rapidly find a control, once you know you got the right control, you won't have to look at the controller while adjusting. On your outboard you also know exactly which knob to grab.

Unlike Houston, it is a major point for me to have access to 3rd party EQ's and Dyn's from the specialised sections on the console. Still I like what the controller does in its current state and I haven't seen another controller in this price range that can do what the Tango can. I know they are working on the 3rd party plugin support, but as been said by Houston, this is extremely difficult. Smart and other manufacturers need to work with the data the DAW transmits. But I am sure they'll find a way. Like I said earlier, I only like the parameters to be at the right spot, the exact curve isn't such a big deal to me, as long as I can find a specific parameter quickly.

The new monArc which shows more channels is working great...

[Nantho]

I'll be doing some videos with Tango in front of Cubase

I can't wait to watch those videos

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

The new monArc which shows more channels is working great...

how many more? how is it doing it?

narco

[HHaynes]

Originally Posted by narco

how many more? how is it doing it?

narco

There are three "views" now, selectable from the Smart button: View One - 27; View Two - 54; View Three - 108 channels. Even in View Three - there's a surprising amount of information that you can see on the individual strips. Mute/Solo status, automation read/write status and movement indicator, fader level and channel audio level meter are all there. It's impressive.

You can also slip the channels "up" and "down" the MonARC strip using the Smart button - just press and then touch your finger on the MonARC area and drag across the screen in one direction or another and you can shift the range of tracks visible in the MonARC - all of which are updating in real time as they're being shifted along the MonARC - extremely handy. (not to mention very cool-looking)



I just got a Steinberg MR816CSX in the studio for review (will publish it on audioMIDI.com) and will probably include it in the Cubase videos. It's cool to be able to instantiate the MR's internal plugins and then control the parameters in real time on the Tango like afull-fledged hardware front-end. (well, they *do* technically have a hardware front end with the front panel of the MR unit itself - but the Tango has more knobs and touchpoints) It's pretty much the same as controlling any third-party plugin as an insert on a channel, but it's fun to know that you're going hardware-to-hardware through a DAW like Cubase and it all feels seamless.



The videos should be filming later this week, and we should have a few guerilla clips (rouch edits) up around the holidays with the formally edited (and more slick) videos up by the end of the month.

[matt thomas]

thanks, that sounds great

wouldn't the channels get quite to narrow to select with your finger in 108 channel mode?

narco

[Nowak]

Here are some pics with the MonARC showing different channel amounts....

[HHaynes]

Originally Posted by narco

thanks, that sounds great

wouldn't the channels get quite to narrow to select with your finger in 108 channel mode?

narco

I wouldn't want to go through and pick channels in "wipe mode", but for "chair mode" it's the absolute BOMB! I use Mode Three mostly for a large channel overview - to see what's happening across a broad section of channels.

There's a "trick" that I use with Nuendo - a macro that selects all tracks with events present within a range and "hides" any channel that doesn't have an event. This allows me to zero in on a range of channels for a specific scene where I might have hundreds of tracks - but only events on a relatively small subset (across a wide swath of the track arrangement). In most cases I'm in View One or Two when I enable that macro - and the Mixer in Nuendo collapses down to the right number of tracks - and I get a great mid-point snapshot of the tracks that are active for a particular scene.

I'm working on one film that currently has 180+ tracks, and without that macro function, I'd still be doing quite a bit of slipping around on the MonARC to look at all the channels in play - even using View three. So, think of the functions that are internal to the Tango as one of the many tools you have available to you when working with an integrated DAW.

[HHaynes]

Last night was the final night of filming of the Tango videos that we plan to put up during the NAMM show. As soon as they get up on YouTube, I'll post a link here.

Also, I'll be moving the majority of my studio to a suite at the Hilton in order to show the gear during the show. I'll post the location/contact info once I have it in-hand so that folks can make an appointment to come by and check it out in person.

Cheers,
Houston

[Nowak]

Good stuff Houston,

I heard you got a 12ch extension bay.....loving life I assume?

Tango just gets better and better!!

Got my next bay arriving next week hopefully!!

Stef

[HHaynes]

Yeah - I'm just about to box them up for the next day or so - but it will be fun to have nearly my full rig on the road. This is the first (and probably last) time I've ever attempted anything like this.

Titan Line Audio » Blog Archive » SmartAV Tango Extension Bay installed

[HHaynes]

Greetings from Anaheim.



We've got some great videos in the queue - they just need a few edits before they go up on the SmartAV site. Bear with us as we try to multi-task a bit and get things going online as we wrap up the last day of demos for the show. Cheers!

[Nowak]

Looking good mate,

Do you have many looking at Tango? I certainly hope so!

Is David Hannay over there with you?

Stef

[HHaynes]

Originally Posted by Nowak

Looking good mate,

Do you have many looking at Tango? I certainly hope so!

I can't speak for SmartAV, but my sense is that the choice to demo in a suite in the Hilton was to avoid the mad crush of the show floor, and have an environment where dealers and distributors can actually hear as well as see what I'm doing when driving through the app. We've been booked solid for the entire weekend and have had a bunch really good sessions. Everyone that's seen it has been blown away.

Joe Bean brought in a Nuendo session file from a live gig that had some really famous players sitting in (among them Eric Clapton) and I've been tweaking that while doing the demos. It's the first live rock/blues session I've done since moving to Nuendo - really great energy but lots of mic bleeds. I assigned the guitars and horns into respective channel groups - then showed how to automate the individual solo tracks with the channel groups still in place - lots of ooohs and aaahs.

There was one contingent from Indonesia that came through - Pyramix users - that brought in a live jazz festival performance they recorded back in 2005 - absolutely fantastic sound. I have a feeling that they'll be tracking a lot of Pyramix with the Tango in the near future.

Originally Posted by Nowak

Is David Hannay over there with you?

Stef

Yup - we've been hanging out since he came to the studio with a van to pick up my gear to take to the show. He's great - as affable in person as he is over the phone. I had no idea that he used to own Fairlight - kind of makes sense given SmartAV's passing references to the company on their web site - but I didn't really put it together until David talked about it a bit while we were crawling in the bumper-to-bumper traffic on I-5.



Looking forward to tomorrow - all except for the part where we have to pack up and load out...

Have a great weekend!

[Nowak]

Good stuff,

David was at Fairlight during the MFX stage, and the start of the Digi invasion.......I'm a former CMI person.

He's a sweetheart, as are all the guys at SAV, a great company to be involved with.

Have fun.

Stef

[Paulseta]

Originally Posted by Nowak

Good stuff,

David was at Fairlight during the MFX stage, and the start of the Digi invasion.......I'm a former CMI person.

He's a sweetheart, as are all the guys at SAV, a great company to be involved with.

Have fun.

Stef

David the film guy?! What's he doing mixed up with Stav and his crazy schemes?

God this country is small :-)

As a side note, a friend of mine has a pile of MFX cast-off hardware that he got at a sell-out auction a few years ago (I think it was a receiver's sell-off). Lots of face-plates, front panels and AES-EBU hardware that doesn't do anything but looked cool in his apartment. Think he sold it to some Dutch guy. He he.

[Nowak]

Sure is Paul.........

That's what I love about the joint.

Stav crazy? no.......really?...........

[Paulseta]

Originally Posted by Nowak

Sure is Paul.........

That's what I love about the joint.

Stav crazy? no.......really?...........

Just my general take on Mr Stav from his extremely interesting Audio Technology columns - and what I've heard about him from people who've worked with him. Admittedly a long time ago :-)

As for David, I worked (not very closely) with him in the early 90s on a film soundtrack for something he was producing. Fascinating process that revealed a vast amount about the film industry at that time in Australia - and some of the lesser-known bits of it that may well have come back to bite us all later... he he he.

That also reminds me that I used to know a guy who worked for Fairlight who's name escapes me completely - I think he was from Estonia or thereabouts, wish I could remember. Anyway, I'll never forget the look on his face when I played a sound from my then new and trendy Roland U220 PCM sample playback module (it was the CM version if you want to split hairs - Roland's little white module versions for PC music, same hardware, just not in the 19 inch rack) which just happened to be the vocal breath sound (Arr? or something) - and then the orchestral hit one. I think he was rather shocked, and then laughed, realising that the days of the Series III being the only game in town for that stuff were over.

Those were the days! Although I would give my right thingy for a Series III library converted to Halion or Kontakt. Those were well-sampled sounds.

[Nowak]

Geez, I had the entire Series III library, that thing was a good heater, 16 voices of gold.

I'm sure you can buy a sample CD with the Series 2x and III libs........

[TRW]

I wonder how long it will take them to allow the user to freely configure the interface (they mention working on it on the Tango site).

I'd love to be able to remove the stock EQ or Dyn and I also wish steinberg would remove them from the channel altogether. How does it work with Logic where there aren't default channel dynamics in place? Does that part of the screen even do anything?

I could use the extra screen real estate to display a large Arc and slightly larger inserts and sends view as well as visible I/O routing, I don't see auto modes on the pictures, does that exist (touch, latch etc).

Will this thing ever work with Pro Tools?

Looking forward to the videos though HHaynes...

-T

[HHaynes]

Tango supports HUI mode for Pro Tools - just like their Pro series consoles. There have been a few people that have bought the Tango *just* for that implementation - though I have a sneaking suspicion that they have an eye to migrating to the other platforms the Tango supports (Nuendo/Cubase, Pyramix and of course Logic)

As far as allowing people to re-do the UI I think it's a ways off before they generalize the platform and publish an SDK. My sense of it is that they're going to be looking to expand their support to other DAW platforms as well as full MCU support.

Automation modes are controlled through the expert panel on the lower left side of the console - the implementation is as good as the remote command set of the DAW (and of course the quality of their automation engine) so Nuendo's is fairly good. The limitations are that you can't toggle Trim mode from anywhere but the automation UI panel in the DAW, so you have to call up the automation window from the Tango and then trigger the control using the mouse. Also, Nuendo's remote command set only had a "next automation mode" and "previous automation mode" button, so you can cycle through them, instead of pressing a button for a mode - 1-to-1 style. When we finish the videos you'll see all of that in action.

OK - gotta get back to the show - I have an hour to set things up before the next meeting. Have a great weekend!