SmartAV Tango DAW Controller

[antonbuys]

Originally Posted by HHaynes

Can you be more specific about "editability of controls"? And for third party support are you talking about plugins or other hosts/sequencers?

If you mean plugin support - there's a post up the line here where I linked some images showing how the Tango exposes VST parameters of third party plugins. For the larger question - well - I never asked because I'm a Nuendo user that's all I was concerned about at the time of purchase.

Hi,

Yes, sorry, should have been more clear. That would be 3rd party plugins. And with editability of controls I meant reassigning them to specific pages and knobs on the 16 controller knobs, so that the ones I use most/find most important would be in the top page or 2, and not 7 pages down... As I've had with the Novation Automap system. I've found that I don't always agree with the controller's idea/programmer's idea of what parameter should be where.

I'm on Logic, so it should be quite good... Very, very tempted. Glad about the comments about build quality. Was disappointed after reading about the QC issues on the Euphonix MC, as I was considering that at one point. I'm a HUI user, and those things are built like tanks. Just having mine serviced now (little fader love needed)...

I've been in on and off contact with David (Hannay) of Smart AV for the last year and 1/2 about a cheaper DAW controller alternative to the full Elite and Professional series controllers. Got tempted by their first attempt - the Apollo, but it didn't take off. Got offered a Beta tester slot on the Tango program, but could just not swing the finances (having just bought a GML 2032/Brauner Phantom/Lavry Blue/Manley Vari-Mu/TL Audio FatTrack combo to get out of the box a bit). And now I think I may just have to go and kick myself for not taking the shot!

Some you win, some you lose. Will just have to cough up a bit more dough when these boys hit the streets.

Anton

[~ufo~]

Originally Posted by HHaynes

Forgive me for undercutting your paranoia with information that required the most basic level of interpretation in order to perceive that the company was acting in good faith. From now on I'll simply ignore you.



dfegadfuuck

Settle down man, no need to pick a fight where there's none to be picked.
I don't suffer from paranoia, it just simply all seems a bit odd and messy.
And that's exactly what it is, nothing more, nothing less.

now let us stay on topic henceforward and act gentlemanlike shall we?

Cheers

[sigmatibet]

Audio Media = Pro Audio Magazine

[dennischristophe]

Hi Guys and especially HHaynes,

just ordered my Tango today, will arrive hopefully next week!

Will keep you posted!

Dennis

[Geert van den Berg]

The Smart AV website is back online!

www.smartav.net

[~ufo~]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

The Smart AV website is back online!

Smart AV - TANGO - Smart Console

well, after seeing the video I'm still very interested.

The only downside I see so far is the touchscreen's GUI.
While apparently powerful, I find it to be very cluttered looking which may translate into a steep learning curve and possibly a quickly fatiguing user experience.
Staring at computer screens, IME, is a lot more fatiguing than working with tape machines was, and I therefore prefer my GUIs as calm and neutral as they can get, which is the main reason why I still find myself working mainly on PT5/OS9. while I have PT6 and 7 running on OSX too. I like the no-nonsense, "scientific" look of PT5 and OS9.

I dare say that perhaps the gui designer of smart should take a more apple-esque approach to the design. Actually, looking at the non nonsense layout of the control surface more and apply that to the touchscreen gui.

as I'm a PT user I won't soon see full implementation of this thing in my studio, but still it looks very appealing to me. Especially because I want a a powerful controller in a relatively small footprint that can sit on my analogue console's blank plates.

[matt thomas]

when I said before I was interested in third party plugin integration I was referring to the possibility that I read somewhere of graphic representations of eq's and compressors (particularly on the channel strips) other than logic or nuendos own. (these might not easily be able to be made too accurate, but approximate representations would be better than none at all)

narco

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by ~ufo~

The only downside I see so far is the touchscreen's GUI.
While apparently powerful, I find it to be very cluttered looking which may translate into a steep learning curve and possibly a quickly fatiguing user experience.

I dare say that perhaps the gui designer of smart should take a more apple-esque approach to the design. Actually, looking at the non nonsense layout of the control surface more and apply that to the touchscreen gui.
.

I think this is a very subjective subject. (I prefer PT 6/7 much over PT 5)

I wanted to wait posting my user experience till I got to know the console a little better, I also have a Tango to test, but since you bring this up I feel the need to reply.

I agree with you that the interface could be less busy (meaning less shadow and maybe getting rid of the fake screw images). But I also have to say that looking at the interface does not make me more fatigue than looking at the screen of most DAW's, actually less fatige, because the layout is more or less fixed, things stay where you expect them to be.

Also editting EQ parameters with the encoders is a joy and seeing ALL the aux levels of all the selected channels in one blink of an eye is also great! (As are many more features on which I'll elaborate later).

This unit is not going back!!!

[~ufo~]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

I think this is a very subjective subject. (I prefer PT 6/7 much over PT 5)

This unit is not going back!!!

Great to hear you like it after hands on experience.
Are you using it with Logic or what?

perhaps I could drop by to give it a spin when I'n in Amsterdam one of these weeks ?

I noticed the fake screws too, but mainly I think there's some stuff in the monarc for instance that just look a bit smaller than they could/should be. Further down the strip too, if some things are just indicators than that's not a problem, if they are touch areas then I say make 'em as big as possible. Anyway, I'd have to try for myself to really be able to judge.

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by ~ufo~

Great to hear you like it after hands on experience.
Are you using it with Logic or what?

perhaps I could drop by to give it a spin when I'n in Amsterdam one of these weeks ?

Yes I am using it with Logic.

I don't mind if you drop by, I am a bit busy so send me a PM to exchange details when you suspect you're going to be in the neighbourhood.

[HHaynes]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

This unit is not going back!!!

Agreed. Mine's essentially a permanent fixture in the studio now. I'm still learning some of the integration and customization features with Nuendo but already at this point I can't imagine life without it.

As far as the GUI is concerned, I think a Mac-like Matel/Fisher-Price UI would look pretty silly - but that's just me.

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by HHaynes

Mac-like Matel/Fisher-Price UI would look pretty silly - but that's just me.

Mac-like and Fisher-Price in one sentence, what's that supposed to mean?

[HHaynes]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

Mac-like and Fisher-Price in one sentence, what's that supposed to mean?

Heh - if there was a Black Mac motif I don't know if I'd object... I referred to the Tango as "the Batmobile of DAW controllers" and that's what I like about it. The Euphonix Artist series seems to be very Mac-centric. Maybe once they get their driver/quality issues sorted their design approach will win more fans in the Mac world. Then we *each* get our own toys to play with.

[musikwerks]

I think you'll find Stav has done considerable research to make sure his hardware is as un-fatiguing as possible. The original SmartAV stuff was like that so it stands to reason the newer stuff would benefit from the same.

[KBOY]

Got a couple of questions for current Tango users.

How is the build quality? I personally hate when things get old and worn out. Higher end builds seem to age better.

Are the mouse pad and touch screen replaceable?

Do you think the build is worthy of many many years of use in a commercial facility that is not for public use but will see 10+ hours of daily activity?

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by KBOY

Got a couple of questions for current Tango users.

How is the build quality? I personally hate when things get old and worn out. Higher end builds seem to age better.

Are the mouse pad and touch screen replaceable?

Do you think the build is worthy of many many years of use in a commercial facility that is not for public use but will see 10+ hours of daily activity?

-Build quality is high (like HHaynes already said a couple of posts ago) The screen gives a nice clear image and it has a real glass front, which you can easily wipe clean.

-Touch screen is replaceable. (by Smart) Mouse pad is not seperately replaceable, because it's on the same lower metal plate as the faders, but I don't think you'd ever have to, if you don't want to scratch it, either use a trackball (like I do) or put some other pad on top of it.

-It's difficult to say how durable it is, since I just got it, but as far as I can judge it should withstand heavy use. You'd have to ask me again after a couple of years, my guess it's still running then. (it is servicable, you can't do it yourself, but if something breaks down Smart AV can probably fix it)

[matt thomas]

can the arc show more than 27 channels at a time?

narco

[HHaynes]

Originally Posted by narco

can the arc show more than 27 channels at a time?

narco

I think they're working on a display mode that will show a much greater number, but I don't have the details on it yet.

[HHaynes]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

-Build quality is high (like HHaynes already said a couple of posts ago)

Just to re-iterate - I used the phrases "built like a tank" and "the Batmobile of DAW controllers" to both convey my enthusiasm *and* my general assessment of the build quality, which I consider to be outstanding.

And to circle back to my snarky chit-chat about the the Tango's screen layout just a bit - there's of course the more serious and deliberate approach that SmartAV has taken. Everyone here should bear in mind that they've taken it upon themselves to build what I understand to be a modular system - not only to re-configure the functions to suit individual needs (see the Post Panel in the Nuendo screen for a glimpse into the amount of power they've put under the hood with the first rev)...



or consider the "alternate" Nuendo EQ channel strip in page 26 of the user's manual they just posted - quite a dramatic difference (and I'd say an improvement) over the stock EQ layout. Just touch the "Active Encoders" button on the left hand screen and just like that the EQ toggles to the new layout. It's an extremely promisig sign of things to come. In my exchanges with the folks at SmartAV I get the distinct impression that they're planning to extend that flexibility to the end user - they'll release more pre-fabricated layouts but later on will publish an SDK that will give complete flexibility for skinning the interface (and I'd imagine a bunch of other stuff under the hood). So, for those of you that think you're forming a "lasting impression" by looking at the Tango at this moment, you might be doing yourself a disservice.

Forgive the pun, but I think they've just "touched the surface" of what this controller is capable of.

[dennischristophe]

Picking mine up tomorrow!!

Can't wait!

[HHaynes]

Originally Posted by dennischristophe

Picking mine up tomorrow!!

Can't wait!

Are you using Logic or Nuendo?

If I can give one bit of advice, I'd say "read the manual".

[dennischristophe]

I use it with Logic,

I am also a beta tester for the guys, so I will stay in contact with them anyway...

DC

[HHaynes]

FYI - I sent some pictures and did a write-up on my use of the Tango, which they have posted on their site, along with a more terse blurb from Jason Fernandez, who uses the Tango as a front end to Logic.

Smart AV - TANGO - Testimonials

My guess is that there will be more blurbs and pics as more Tangos reach "the wild".

[angel777]

Hi,
Tango is here in my studio!
You can check a photo of me and tango on myspace:
MySpace.com - Angel Studio - IT - Pop / Soundtracks / Film music / Rock - www.myspace.com/angelrecstudio

damn is so hot and fast!
by! Sam

[HHaynes]

For those that are interested - I thought I'd throw over a bit of 411 I posted on the Nuendo forum...

I'm beginning to sink my teeth into a pre-release of their new firmware that allows for full programmability of the Edit Panels - along with a revamped monitor screen that I'm still getting my head/hands around. Think of a thousand virtual actuators (basically a 10X10X10 matrix) and you begin to get a drift of the type of control that's literally at your fingertips - and that's before you get into all of the commands you can put under the phyical buttons, using modifier keys to program layers of commands through many of the buttons around the jog wheel. I'm just now reading the new manual sections to get a handle on how to configure the various panels/controls, but here's a sneak peak of what the new monitor and panel/keys programming interfaces look like.

http://www.titanlinemusic.com/images/Tango/IMG_0255.JPG
http://www.titanlinemusic.com/images/Tango/IMG_0256.JPG
http://www.titanlinemusic.com/images/Tango/IMG_0257.JPG


(these are unedited images taken from a small handheld digital camera, so view the distorted image at your own risk.

I'm excited about not only mapping all of the "stock" Nuendo commands, but also figuring out the right places to use some KCs/macros and even some project logical editor presets. I may also work in some combinations of functions that can use the jog wheel - still investigating that bit. I hope to have something over the next week or two - but don't want to get too distracted from the project I'm working on at the moment - it's a tough balancing act with such a powerful tool in front of me.

The good news for everyone else that SmartAV will probably use some variation of the Edit Panels I build to pre-load them to work with Nuendo right out of the box, which is good for everyone else that they don't have to do that work... until they figure out their own "tweaks" and macros to roll their own panels/key assignments.

[Nowak]

Geez, I can't wait to check out the Tango.

Finding the time is difficult at the moment but I'm looking forward to checking it out. I need to ditch the ProControl before I can dive in.

How do the controls feel? do they feel they're actually doing anything? alot of the controllers feel like toys because the controls don't feel like they're actually "connected" to anything, I'd love to feel a little tension in the faders rather than them just scraping up and down like alot of the controllers out there.

Stefan

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by Nowak

. I need to ditch the ProControl before I can dive in.

Stefan

isn't the pro control for Pro Tools, and the tango for Logic / Nuendo?

unless it supports hui emulation? but even this would not make it as powerful as it could be with logic and nuendo

narco

[Nowak]

Originally Posted by narco

isn't the pro control for Pro Tools, and the tango for Logic / Nuendo?

unless it supports hui emulation? but even this would not make it as powerful as it could be with logic and nuendo

narco

The guys at SmartAV told me they will be adding HUI emulation as it's already in their Smart Consoles......

Stef

[HHaynes]

Originally Posted by Nowak

Geez, I can't wait to check out the Tango.

Well - if your location listing is right, you're in Sydney, which would put you in "SmartAV Central".

Originally Posted by Nowak

I need to ditch the ProControl before I can dive in..

You'd need to ditch Pro Tools too - unless you're willing to put up with plain-jane HUI emulation. Digi is all about selling their hardware, so they don't publish an API/SDK that goes "deep" into the inner working of the app like Steinberg, Emapple, Cakewalk and many of the other DAW software vendors.

Originally Posted by Nowak

How do the controls feel? do they feel they're actually doing anything? alot of the controllers feel like toys because the controls don't feel like they're actually "connected" to anything, I'd love to feel a little tension in the faders rather than them just scraping up and down like alot of the controllers out there.

I know what you mean. One of the things I really liked about my TASCAM FW-1884 was the smooth, resistive feel of the faders, something that I consider to be critical to the real value of a controller. The FW's encoders and knobs were a bit light to the touch, though. It's one of the main reasons I was given pause when I demo'd the Euphonix MC Mix, the faders and knobs of their "Artist" series didn't give me a tremendous amount of confidence as to their long-term durability.

The Tango has great-feeling faders - very much in the mold of high end large format consoles. When the SmartAV rep in the US told me over the phone that it's as solid as anything SSL ever built (he rep'd for them for 20 years or so) I was a bit dubious - but two minutes after I got the console out of the box, I was a believer. The sliders don't have one bit of "play" - no unnecessary shift from side to side or up and down. Likewise there's no stiffness, drag, or any other kind of variability in the fader throw - just smooth travel end to end (and consistency from fader to fader). The best was I could describe it would be "silky" or maybe "oily" - very, very nice.

The encoders are similarly appointed. Aside from having resistance in that "goldilocks zone" (not too light, not too stiff - just right) the push-button detents have an authoritative "click" that has enough back pressure to make sure you don't activate it by accident, and gives you solid feedback that you've actuated the button portion of the control. The push buttons across the surface are similarly consistent, a tiny bit lighter to the touch than the rotary encoders, but still an authoritative "click". At the outset I didn't quite *get* the touch points for solo and "inject" (the latter is used to map a DAW mixer channel to one of the physical controller channels, among many other functions), but it didn't take long to get a grasp of the ergonomics behind that layout. It's kind of mind-blowing how quickly and easily you can move through a project - and the feel of the controls is so immediate that it feels like a natural extension to the DAW application.

As you can see - I can go on and on about this console. But I've got to get on with the morning routine (and the rest of the day). As I dig into the Tango, I become more and more enthusiastic about it - which hasn't happened in a long time.

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by HHaynes

I'm excited about not only mapping all of the "stock" Nuendo commands, but also figuring out the right places to use some KCs/macros and even some project logical editor presets. I may also work in some combinations of functions that can use the jog wheel -

I've already programmed my zooms in Logic to function with the jog wheel.

I love the new update as well!