Bass Secrets

[largeunit]

Let's discuss secrets for recording and mixing bass -- getting a great bass sound that sits well in the mix.

I still feel like I have to get lucky - I must be very picky.

[LTA]

How to get a good bass sound:
1. New(er) strings
2. Proper action/setup
3. Good pickups
4. Good player with great technique

Expensive bass is optional.

While 1 is a big deal (and will add presence without additional volume, which is helpful even with foundation-style playing), 2 and 4 are two readily adjusted parameters that are hugely influential on the sound. In terms of how a bass sits in a mix, these are a bigger deal than pick vs fingers.

As an example, Entwistle (boris the spider) sounds like an extremely low action setup, while the funky John Paul Jones sounds like a higher action setup. I know they don't have the same approach to technique, but everybody is familiar with them and they contrast so well. Pay attention to the fret buzz vs tone relationship.

So, lower action = more presence, and higher action = more tone. There are plenty of in-between points too, and it all depends on the player's technique and willingness to work for good tone (aka aptitude).

Then you pull out the mics, pres, eq's, di's, and compressors.

[jtienhaara]

Great points! LTA do you have any favourite "cheapo brand" basses? Personally I'd be most interested in great-sounding J-bass-style cheapies.

I've been promoting the Audio Technica ATM25 mic so much lately I kind of wonder if it'll end up making it into the epigraph on my tombstone...

But it really is a great mic for bass cabs with 10" speakers. It has a ncie bottom-end boost but it also really captures the metallic sound of a slap or a pop. For whatever it's worth I much prefer the ATM25 to the (much mellower) U87AI on bass. (I think I'm alone in this boat though. )

One thing that drives me mad when mixing bass is a crowded mix. Oasis and Nickelback type bands tend to have way too many layers, and the bass is always first to get lost in the mud.

Also -- and this ties in with LTA's # 4 -- a boring bass line is hard to mix well. If it's got great rhythm, like funk or a cool poppy hook, great. But personally I doubt there are any "bass secrets" for mixing punk...

$0.02!

Johann

[warhead]

The A Designs MP1 has turned out to be a very cool bass D.I.

I still find the player being the "secret" ingredient like all other tracks of course.

A Fender P or Jazz bass seems to kick ass 99% of the time as well with a good player.

War

[Jules]

In the spendy 'extras' dept a Fatso "Tranny" setting can help make it more audible on small speakers...

[largeunit]

I've got great basses set up by a guy many think is the best in nyc, a great di, and great amp, etc. And I've recorded some great and famous players. I'm not so bad either. But I still find that bass tone I'm looking for to often be difficult to achieve.

I've had the best luck with, well, the best compressors... Like the 2254. And often what seems to work is compressing the bass twice (usually the second time through the setting is more mild). Or bringing the compressed signal up on one channel and the original, non-compressed but eq'ed up on another channel and blending the two.

[heinz]

Love the sound of P-Bass into Chandler TG2 D.I... play with the knobs... YUM.

[largeunit]

Originally posted by heinz
Love the sound of P-Bass into Chandler TG2 D.I... play with the knobs... YUM.

Um... That must be different than this unit:

http://www.mercenary.com/chtg2preamp.html

Because it can't be that much fun to just play with input/output knobs...

[heinz]

Originally posted by largeunit
Because it can't be that much fun to just play with input/output knobs...

Clearly you haven't used one. The TG2 is a great distortion box when driving input up and keeping the fader low. But cleans up really nice on the other end. Lots of sounds in between.

Geez man two knobs is MORE than enough!

[warhead]

Oops...forgot...

Waves Renaissance Bass during mixdown can help a bunch. Just don't overdo it!

War

[largeunit]

Originally posted by heinz
Clearly you haven't used one. The TG2 is a great distortion box when driving input up and keeping the fader low. But cleans up really nice on the other end. Lots of sounds in between.

Geez man two knobs is MORE than enough!

Cool!

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by largeunit
Let's discuss secrets for mixing bass --

Three words...

Roland Dimension D.

[jtienhaara]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Three words...

Roland Dimension D.

I heard another bass player rave about RDD... Do you know of any examples of albums, Thethrillfactor? Or endorsers?

Those puppies are hard to find these days, and pricey too.

[LTA]

Originally posted by jtienhaara
Great points! LTA do you have any favourite "cheapo brand" basses? Personally I'd be most interested in great-sounding J-bass-style cheapies.

Cheapo basses. Hmm, basically anything based on the P or J. JB Player makes some sleepers. The necks are the big deal. Cheap flimsy necks do not help the cause much. Something straight that responds equally to truss rod adjustments. You can always do a fret dress if you are so inclined. And, the tuning pegs have to stay in tune. You have to know what you are looking for to find a gem in a haystack of mediocracy. The best thing about it is that every music store tends to have a bunch of new and used inexpensive basses to go through. Not every one is a winner, but if you play it without an amp you can get a feel for what it could do in better circumstances (strings, setup, and pickups). If you are blindly buying things, the high end stuff tends to be more consistently better. If you have a trained ear, you can find that 1 in 20 lower end bass that has a certain "mojo" that can nearly rival a good high end instrument.

The problem is, the tempation to continue upgrading a ho hum instrument is there. Once you replace the pickups, tuners, bridge, strap locks and nut (and potentially the neck), you end up with a bass that is no longer cheap. For a few hundred more, you could have gotten something with a nicer finish/top.

[PaRaNoId]

Like many other sources...Just make sure u take your time while getting a great sound from the get go. Do you usually use DI?... well try using an amp this time. Usually use your fingers but need more attack? wabow...use a pick! Sound too squashed/ stop any compression in the chain (even preamp overloading on the cheap bass amp)....

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by jtienhaara
I heard another bass player rave about RDD... Do you know of any examples of albums, Thethrillfactor? Or endorsers?

Those puppies are hard to find these days, and pricey too.

I am not a bass player so am not sure about the first part.

I do mix bass and the Dimension D does something amazing to it.

It gives you a nice spread up and down the bass freq's.

It makes it big,full and clear.

Hard to find and pricey?

Well i normally hangout on the High End so over there an original SDD-320 is actually not that much.

But if you are on a budget you can try out the SDX-330(Roland's modern version of it).

But i can't vouch for it though.

[largeunit]

There's one on eBay now for $785.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WD1V

[meteor]

include a channel directly from the amp head. very often, for me, a good tone from the cab can mean an even better tone from the amp head. (my favorite are the Ashdown ABM series, which if you haven't seen or heard, you probably will). i don't usually track all three inputs (direct, mic, and amp head), but it's nice to be able to quickly pick which seems to work for the particular song. sometimes it's a combination. either way, i'm sure we all understand that a "great" anything starts with the capture and i think this helps.

cheers,

[preben]

If the bass is a bolt-on neck type (Fender) make sure to tighten the 4 screws holding the neck in place. Also tighten the screws holding the bridge.

If you and your players don't suffer from nickel allergies I find that nickel vs steel strings make a bigger difference than cheap vs expensive strings. Nickel strings have more body to them and more of a nucleus to the sound whereas steel strings have more snap and high end.

[LumenStudio]

Can anyone recommend pickups to go into a Warwick Corvette Active Bass? For hard rock...

[Aearth]

Don't forget the Avalon 737 with bass, it still sounds great to me. I must say the Chandler TG2 is the new kid on the block....sounds good on just about anything you put through it. That input gain knob just changes the whole character of the signal.
I don't sell the Chandler, but at the moment it's my favourite box and really every big studio will have one as a standard in the near future.


Nick

[jho]

Trick I do sometimes is blend in some low freq keyboard playing what the bass guitar is, chop all the highs above 150 or whatever and blend so that you can't tell it's a separate instrument. Absynth 2 has some good tones for this.

[Curve Dominant]

I just got a tip from a close relative who's currently in the studio with (a very famous hard rock band), and he suggested the SansAmp bass driver as a bass DI.

Seriously.

I asked him, "No sh&t??!!!"

He was not f&cking with me.

I haven't tried it yet, but I'm headed to 8th Street Music on Monday to buy...guess what??

[largeunit]

Originally posted by Aearth
Don't forget the Avalon 737 with bass, it still sounds great to me. I must say the Chandler TG2 is the new kid on the block....sounds good on just about anything you put through it. That input gain knob just changes the whole character of the signal.
I don't sell the Chandler, but at the moment it's my favourite box and really every big studio will have one as a standard in the near future.


Nick

Hey heinz & nick... How does that unit sound as a mic pre?

[Kestral]

Here's my chain:

A great bass -> Neve 1073 -> Urei 1176

With emphasis on a great bass (and bass player)

[Jules]

Originally posted by Curve Dominant
I just got a tip from a close relative who's currently in the studio with (a very famous hard rock band), and he suggested the SansAmp bass driver as a bass DI.

Seriously.

I asked him, "No sh&t??!!!"

He was not f&cking with me.

I haven't tried it yet, but I'm headed to 8th Street Music on Monday to buy...guess what??

My studio is looooooong overdue purchasing one of these -

My favorite (living) bass player Terry Fox swears by it and owns one.

Music Man Sting Ray - SansApm Bass Di = bass sound 99% done

1000% reccomended

[Wiggy Neve Slut]

Hmmm.. musicman's are hit and miss in my book. sometime they are right more often than not they dont have the "JU JU" that i like. Where i come from the boss is got a bitchin 63 pre L PBASS.. its just a monster! Smooth, slinky PHAT bass.

Also from a former life is his status carbon fibre headless bass. As shocking as it looks its got a tone that is REALLY solid and can be just the thing for some tunes when the regular suspects just dont cut it.

On the DI front i LOVE my WUNDER... it must be those BIG FCUCK OFF input transformers cos its got the vibe and the sound. API and Phoenix dont suck either. And compressors to taste.

Wiggy

[Tim L]

Originally posted by Jules
My studio is looooooong overdue purchasing one of these -

My favorite (living) bass player Terry Fox swears by it and owns one.

Music Man Sting Ray - SansApm Bass Di = bass sound 99% done

1000% reccomended

I've had my Bass Driver for a while now and love the lil' sucker... It's a great box!

[YuriK]

As for the bass driver, there is a rack version with more output options and is rackmountable. We have both, sound practically the same, if anything I prefer the rack. I think its called RBI.

Yuri

[heinz]

Originally posted by largeunit
Hey heinz & nick... How does that unit sound as a mic pre?

I think it's one of the best and coolest sounding mic pre's I've ever heard. But then, I'm just a hack. Search the forum on TG2 though and I think you'll find others who dig it a lot.