Suggest a kick microphone that has a good "thud", punchy in the mids - not "clicky"

Jake Holland · 21st May 2008, 11:43 PM

I'm having a hard time deciding on which kick mic to buy for my needs.

I want that nice tight thud in the bottom.

I also want a nice punchy midrange.

My favortie drummers are Bonham, Manu Katche, Vinne Colaiuta, Brian Blade, Al Jackson (Booker T). I like that kind of tight bottom end thud those drummers have with a nice punchy attack.

What I don't like is that Metallica ticky clicky bass drum sound that doesn't even sound like a bass drum.

I want a tight sound, not flabby but with some thickness to it. I also don't like that hollow tunnel type sound that I have heard at time.

I also want a mic that could sound great both inside the drum with dampeneing for more punchy attack but also that will also sound great a few inches in front of the front head with no hole cut in it and dampened less for that Bohnam/Mitch Mitchell kind bass drum setup.

My drum is a vintage Ludwig 24" X 14" with powerstroke 3 coated on the batter side and ambassador coated on the front. I use a Danmar Classic style felt beater.

Suggest away please! I am all ears.

catastrophic · 21st May 2008, 11:50 PM

i think the "ticky clicky" sound comes most from the tuning and beater selection, though the mic and placement can accentuate this type of sound.

having said that, a 421 or re-20 is what i'd reach for if i were going for what you describe.

Dan · 21st May 2008, 11:51 PM

D112
or the "thudier"
D12

oh yeah, an RE20, or SM7 would fit the bill.

Einar · 22nd May 2008, 12:01 AM

Shure Beta 52 /SM7
Electro Voice RE20
AKG D112 / D12
Audix D6
Sennheiser MD421

The sound... it´s all about how the kick sounds & mic placement.
(+ EQ/Comp)

ScumBum · 22nd May 2008, 12:08 AM

421

D112 - too much click for you

Sm7 - not enough click

But the best is to double mic the kick , 421 inside and a Subkick or Speaker on outside .

Jake Holland · 22nd May 2008, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Einar

Shure Beta 52 /SM7
Electro Voice RE20
AKG D112 / D12
Audix D6
Sennheiser MD421

The sound... it´s all about how the kick sounds & mic placement.
(+ EQ/Comp)

Those are all very different mics. From what I have read and understand the D6 is the king of Clicky. and the D112 is not far behind. Why would you suggest those?

Jake Holland · 22nd May 2008, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScumBum

421

D112 - too much click for you

Sm7 - not enough click

But the best is to double mic the kick , 421 inside and a Subkick or Speaker on outside .

Is the 421 tighter sounding than the RE-20? Which will give more thud and which will give more punchiness on the same bass drum in the same location?

Einar · 22nd May 2008, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Holland

Those are all very different mics. From what I have read and understand the D6 is the king of Clicky. and the D112 is not far behind. Why would you suggest those?

Because, like I said... placement! I´ve found that I can easily get two extremely different outcomes from one mic.

Sure the D112 can be very clicky inside the kick, very close to and pointing straight at the beater. But placed in middle inside the kick, pointing 180° away from the beater...very thick and "thuddy" and a bunch of tone - whole different story.

ScumBum · 22nd May 2008, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Holland

Is the 421 tighter sounding than the RE-20? Which will give more thud and which will give more punchiness on the same bass drum in the same location?

I'm not sure cause I've never used the RE-20 before . But what I've read about it is that its similar to the SM7 , both broadcast mics .

I have used the SM7 and it works on kick but I find not enough punch or click with it .Maybe if your after a more mellow kick tone .

I have also used an e602 , D112 , 57 and I can't remember what else right now .

To me if you want that classic rock kick a 421 is it . Its got nice punch , lowend and not to much click , just enough .

Placement and tuning is also very critical with a kick drum .

You can also use a 57 inside for punch and a speaker outside for the lowend , which works well .

Texum · 22nd May 2008, 12:36 AM

To me the OP is describing the RE-20. Don't forget to add a LDC with a lot of bottom 'FOK.

BUT: as always, tuning is all important, IMHO

giraffe · 22nd May 2008, 12:38 AM

get the d12 (not d112) if you can find it!

BlueSprocket · 22nd May 2008, 12:45 AM

PR-40
4047
U-47 Fet
Korby FET KAT (Outside the Kick)

Had great result with each.

Sigma · 22nd May 2008, 02:19 AM

i will never suggest a vintage mic here again ..the last time i did they went from 400-500 to 700-1500 on ebay

so i'm not saying nah nah nah nah nah

Blearyoftimothy · 22nd May 2008, 02:23 AM

awesome, you are a magic man.

Igotsoul4u · 22nd May 2008, 02:27 AM

if you like the sound of a kickball grab the D112. D12 is better. I personally like the beta52 for thud and I use a 57 for click but only because thats what I got. Still works pretty well. Other favorites the usual suspects, fet47, re20, 421. A wild card mic is the telefunken ak47. I put mine 2-3 ft outside the kik facing slightly up towards the overheads with a cardiod pattern. Best kik sound I ever had but more importantly a perfectly blended mono source!!!! The whole kit was captured perfectly. All I did was bring up the overheads (audio techinca atm450) and I was done. Didn't use the hat, toms, snr, and kik mic. Kinda blew my mind.

Roc Mixwell · 22nd May 2008, 02:29 AM

Crowley and Tripp Mercenary Edition "el Diablo"

Its designed to be the equivalent of having a MD421 on the beater head [for note] and a FET 47 on the out head, [for girth and breath] placed on the INSIDE of the drum.

No Joke...intake over 140 DB SPL @ all BANDS!!!!!

No need for any other microphones, just add a preamp texture of choice [I like the Chandler TG-2 for punch or the NPNG for the most breathtaking depth and transient reach] than simply move the mic for taste.

I've been cutting all types of records with the "el diablo" its not just for kicking you in the teeth, punching you in the gut, kick sounds. Maybe if you throw the AMTEC PEQ-1A on the chain, but this microphone is very versatile and worth every penny when you consider how this thing is built and how it can preform under any circumstance.

Igotsoul4u · 22nd May 2008, 02:41 AM

oops. I forgot one of my favorites and a definite sleeper mic. The audio technica 2500. It sounds great and the gimmick is not a gimmick. Its the best sounding "kick" mic hands down. The price is just a little high for a so called single use mic. I have heard people getting good results on snare also. Not one to sleep on. Frank Filipetti turned me on to it if that means anything.

gearmaniac · 22nd May 2008, 03:05 AM

all right man here goes my two cents...

D6- not really clicky from my experience. I usually place it to the far right of the opening, facing the beater. Really easy to get a good sound (thump + click).

D112- It's been called the "duck" for that exact reason!!! (quack-quack) Basically if placed inside the bass drum near the beater it will be the best mic for that click that you don't want.

RE20- Great mic for a well tuned Kick Drum.... Very flat sounding (hence why it is great for Broadcasters...)

MD421- is a very clear mic IMO. Depending were you place it it will give you a clear representation of your sound.

Those are the mics I've had experience with. That being said I would definitely recommend making a two mic set up. Yamaha Sub Kick outside d112 3/4 in. THis will give you the thump from the sub kick and the ability to control the click with the D112. That's what I do and it sounds really good.

-cool

Jake Holland · 22nd May 2008, 03:24 AM

I like the sound of Larry Mullen Jr.'s Kick drum on "I still haven't found what I'm looking for" and "With or without you". - great thud and punch.

And I also like his bass drum sound on Sunday Bloody Sunday

Anybody know what mics were used to get that thud?

sleeps · 22nd May 2008, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gearmaniac

D6- not really clicky from my experience.

How much more click than a D6 could you want? I have yet to find a half decent tone with that mic.

I suggest the MD421.

warhead · 22nd May 2008, 03:28 AM

E/V ND868

War

gearmaniac · 22nd May 2008, 03:32 AM

all right man here goes my two cents...

D6- not really clicky from my experience. I usually place it to the far right of the opening, facing the beater. Really easy to get a good sound (thump + click).

D112- It's been called the "duck" for that exact reason!!! (quack-quack) Basically if placed inside the bass drum near the beater it will be the best mic for that click that you don't want.

RE20- Great mic for a well tuned Kick Drum.... Very flat sounding (hence why it is great for Broadcasters...)

MD421- is a very clear mic IMO. Depending were you place it it will give you a clear representation of your sound.

Those are the mics I've had experience with. That being said I would definitely recommend making a two mic set up. Yamaha Sub Kick outside d112 3/4 in. THis will give you the thump from the sub kick and the ability to control the click with the D112. That's what I do and it sounds really good.

-cool

Alex Wyler · 23rd May 2008, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Holland

I like the sound of Larry Mullen Jr.'s Kick drum on "I still haven't found what I'm looking for" and "With or without you". - great thud and punch.

And I also like his bass drum sound on Sunday Bloody Sunday

Anybody know what mics were used to get that thud?

I'm not sure what kick mic Lanois used on Larry Mullen Jr's bass drum but I concur that it sounded fantastic. Awesome pillowy thud with enough punch to cut through The Edge's dense wall of guitars...not to mention the awesome way that the bass drum and bass guitar work together so amazingly well in this tune "Still haven't found..." The kick and bass guitar play the exact same rhythmic figure but each is nice and defined. I think the bass was rolled off a lot to allow for the kick to punch through. I too wonder what mic was used. Likely one of the usual suspects at that time - 1986.

river · 23rd May 2008, 02:01 AM

Sennheiser e602. I'll post some uncompressed, un-EQ'd samples tomorrow.

Chaellus · 23rd May 2008, 02:06 AM

AKG D12E in the Kick In and AKG D112 Kick Out

James Meeker · 23rd May 2008, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Igotsoul4u

oops. I forgot one of my favorites and a definite sleeper mic. The audio technica 2500. It sounds great and the gimmick is not a gimmick. Its the best sounding "kick" mic hands down.

Hrm, my experience is the exact opposite. I thought it was mediocre on anything I put it on. Looks great in concept, but the reality to me was a mediocre dynamic mic that lacks character coupled with a phase-perfect mediocre small diaphragm microphone that lacks character as well.

Really disappointed in that mic. When it was first announced I was pretty excited by the idea.

glitch · 23rd May 2008, 02:36 AM

You could try to find an Audio Technica ATM25. They haven't been made for a year or so, but fit the bill nicely.

sethmeister · 23rd May 2008, 03:04 AM

MD421 is very tight and punchy but a bit thin for what I think you are looking for. Combine it with a FET47 style LDC at FOK or a speaker mic (subkick) to get the air and low end.

Can either put the 421 in the kick or at batter side if you want an uncut res head.

staudio · 23rd May 2008, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catastrophic

i think the "ticky clicky" sound comes most from the tuning and beater selection, though the mic and placement can accentuate this type of sound.

having said that, a 421 or re-20 is what i'd reach for if i were going for what you describe.

My thoughts exactly.

Also as the previous post said, adding a large diaphragm condenser outside the kick can help add a ton of low end, though watch out for phase and alignment issues.

Jake Holland · 23rd May 2008, 11:17 PM

I have a U47 tube condensor so I can get that "FOK" thing no problem. I usually place the mic 2 or 3 feet away. Any closer and I'm afraid that I might ruin that mic.

what I am looking to buy is a dynamic mic that will add some thud and punch at closer distances where you would not want to place a LDC or a ribbon.

I don't think it is safe to place a U47 any closer than 2 feet away from the front head do you?

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21st May 2008, 11:43 PM	#1
Jake Holland Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 166	Suggest a kick microphone that has a good "thud", punchy in the mids - not "clicky" I'm having a hard time deciding on which kick mic to buy for my needs. I want that nice tight thud in the bottom. I also want a nice punchy midrange. My favortie drummers are Bonham, Manu Katche, Vinne Colaiuta, Brian Blade, Al Jackson (Booker T). I like that kind of tight bottom end thud those drummers have with a nice punchy attack. What I don't like is that Metallica ticky clicky bass drum sound that doesn't even sound like a bass drum. I want a tight sound, not flabby but with some thickness to it. I also don't like that hollow tunnel type sound that I have heard at time. I also want a mic that could sound great both inside the drum with dampeneing for more punchy attack but also that will also sound great a few inches in front of the front head with no hole cut in it and dampened less for that Bohnam/Mitch Mitchell kind bass drum setup. My drum is a vintage Ludwig 24" X 14" with powerstroke 3 coated on the batter side and ambassador coated on the front. I use a Danmar Classic style felt beater. Suggest away please! I am all ears.

21st May 2008, 11:51 PM	#3
Dan Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Dallas Posts: 1,269	D112 or the "thudier" D12 oh yeah, an RE20, or SM7 would fit the bill. __________________ Rent some gear in Dallas! http://www.transientrecording.com/Eq...%20Rental.html Or, come use it at my studio! http://www.januarysound.com/

22nd May 2008, 12:01 AM	#4
Einar Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 324	Shure Beta 52 /SM7 Electro Voice RE20 AKG D112 / D12 Audix D6 Sennheiser MD421 The sound... it´s all about how the kick sounds & mic placement. (+ EQ/Comp) __________________ "Get busy living... or get busy dying!"

22nd May 2008, 12:45 AM	#12
BlueSprocket Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Harrisonburg, VA Posts: 279	PR-40 4047 U-47 Fet Korby FET KAT (Outside the Kick) Had great result with each. __________________ "No stone throwing regardless of housing situation."

21st May 2008, 11:50 PM	#2
catastrophic Gear Head Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 60	i think the "ticky clicky" sound comes most from the tuning and beater selection, though the mic and placement can accentuate this type of sound. having said that, a 421 or re-20 is what i'd reach for if i were going for what you describe.

22nd May 2008, 12:08 AM	#5
ScumBum Gear addict Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: San Fransisco , BayArea Posts: 478	421 D112 - too much click for you Sm7 - not enough click But the best is to double mic the kick , 421 inside and a Subkick or Speaker on outside .

22nd May 2008, 12:36 AM	#10
Texum Gear nut Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 134	To me the OP is describing the RE-20. Don't forget to add a LDC with a lot of bottom 'FOK. BUT: as always, tuning is all important, IMHO

22nd May 2008, 12:38 AM	#11
giraffe Gear nut Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 106	get the d12 (not d112) if you can find it!

22nd May 2008, 02:19 AM	#13
Sigma Lives for gear Join Date: May 2006 Location: phallicdelphia Posts: 2,586	i will never suggest a vintage mic here again ..the last time i did they went from 400-500 to 700-1500 on ebay so i'm not saying nah nah nah nah nah __________________ I believe that we have to content ourselves with our imperfect knowledge and understanding and treat values and moral obligations as a purely human problem - the most important of all human problems"....alberta weintsein "The notes I handle no better than many pianists. But the pauses between the notes, ah, that is where the art resides." Artur Schnabel http://www.myspace.com/miketarsia http://miketarsia.com

22nd May 2008, 02:23 AM	#14
Blearyoftimothy Gear Head Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 36	awesome, you are a magic man.

22nd May 2008, 02:27 AM	#15
Igotsoul4u Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,608	if you like the sound of a kickball grab the D112. D12 is better. I personally like the beta52 for thud and I use a 57 for click but only because thats what I got. Still works pretty well. Other favorites the usual suspects, fet47, re20, 421. A wild card mic is the telefunken ak47. I put mine 2-3 ft outside the kik facing slightly up towards the overheads with a cardiod pattern. Best kik sound I ever had but more importantly a perfectly blended mono source!!!! The whole kit was captured perfectly. All I did was bring up the overheads (audio techinca atm450) and I was done. Didn't use the hat, toms, snr, and kik mic. Kinda blew my mind.

22nd May 2008, 02:29 AM	#16
Roc Mixwell Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Foxboro, MA Posts: 1,899	Crowley and Tripp Mercenary Edition "el Diablo" Its designed to be the equivalent of having a MD421 on the beater head [for note] and a FET 47 on the out head, [for girth and breath] placed on the INSIDE of the drum. No Joke...intake over 140 DB SPL @ all BANDS!!!!! No need for any other microphones, just add a preamp texture of choice [I like the Chandler TG-2 for punch or the NPNG for the most breathtaking depth and transient reach] than simply move the mic for taste. I've been cutting all types of records with the "el diablo" its not just for kicking you in the teeth, punching you in the gut, kick sounds. Maybe if you throw the AMTEC PEQ-1A on the chain, but this microphone is very versatile and worth every penny when you consider how this thing is built and how it can preform under any circumstance. __________________ Adam Brass Mercenary Audio adam@mercenary.com ________________ "Any opinions expressed above are worth exactly what you paid for them." Anonymous "Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude." Thomas Jefferson "If I find 10,000 ways something won't work, I haven't failed. I am not discouraged, because every wrong attempt discarded is another step forward. Thomas Edison

22nd May 2008, 02:41 AM	#17
Igotsoul4u Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,608	oops. I forgot one of my favorites and a definite sleeper mic. The audio technica 2500. It sounds great and the gimmick is not a gimmick. Its the best sounding "kick" mic hands down. The price is just a little high for a so called single use mic. I have heard people getting good results on snare also. Not one to sleep on. Frank Filipetti turned me on to it if that means anything. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/polishedproductions MacPro 2.66 quad, Protools LE 003, Logic 8, McDsp, Sonnox

22nd May 2008, 03:05 AM	#18
gearmaniac Gear Head Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 60	all right man here goes my two cents... D6- not really clicky from my experience. I usually place it to the far right of the opening, facing the beater. Really easy to get a good sound (thump + click). D112- It's been called the "duck" for that exact reason!!! (quack-quack) Basically if placed inside the bass drum near the beater it will be the best mic for that click that you don't want. RE20- Great mic for a well tuned Kick Drum.... Very flat sounding (hence why it is great for Broadcasters...) MD421- is a very clear mic IMO. Depending were you place it it will give you a clear representation of your sound. Those are the mics I've had experience with. That being said I would definitely recommend making a two mic set up. Yamaha Sub Kick outside d112 3/4 in. THis will give you the thump from the sub kick and the ability to control the click with the D112. That's what I do and it sounds really good. -cool

22nd May 2008, 03:24 AM	#19
Jake Holland Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 166	I like the sound of Larry Mullen Jr.'s Kick drum on "I still haven't found what I'm looking for" and "With or without you". - great thud and punch. And I also like his bass drum sound on Sunday Bloody Sunday Anybody know what mics were used to get that thud?

22nd May 2008, 03:28 AM	#21
warhead Jai guru deva om Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: South Carolina Posts: 8,328	E/V ND868 War __________________ Warren Dent Email: warren (at) frontendaudio (dot) com Front End Audio Sells Gear Tuesday Testers: Hear the Gear Shootouts Product Videos on YouTube: Overviews of Gear

22nd May 2008, 03:32 AM	#22
gearmaniac Gear Head Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 60	all right man here goes my two cents... D6- not really clicky from my experience. I usually place it to the far right of the opening, facing the beater. Really easy to get a good sound (thump + click). D112- It's been called the "duck" for that exact reason!!! (quack-quack) Basically if placed inside the bass drum near the beater it will be the best mic for that click that you don't want. RE20- Great mic for a well tuned Kick Drum.... Very flat sounding (hence why it is great for Broadcasters...) MD421- is a very clear mic IMO. Depending were you place it it will give you a clear representation of your sound. Those are the mics I've had experience with. That being said I would definitely recommend making a two mic set up. Yamaha Sub Kick outside d112 3/4 in. THis will give you the thump from the sub kick and the ability to control the click with the D112. That's what I do and it sounds really good. -cool

23rd May 2008, 02:01 AM	#24
river Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 660	Sennheiser e602. I'll post some uncompressed, un-EQ'd samples tomorrow.

23rd May 2008, 02:06 AM	#25
Chaellus Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, California Posts: 1,126	AKG D12E in the Kick In and AKG D112 Kick Out

23rd May 2008, 02:36 AM	#27
glitch Lives for gear Join Date: May 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,275	You could try to find an Audio Technica ATM25. They haven't been made for a year or so, but fit the bill nicely. __________________ I can't hear specs.

23rd May 2008, 03:04 AM	#28
sethmeister Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 185	MD421 is very tight and punchy but a bit thin for what I think you are looking for. Combine it with a FET47 style LDC at FOK or a speaker mic (subkick) to get the air and low end. Can either put the 421 in the kick or at batter side if you want an uncut res head.

23rd May 2008, 11:17 PM	#30
Jake Holland Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 166	I have a U47 tube condensor so I can get that "FOK" thing no problem. I usually place the mic 2 or 3 feet away. Any closer and I'm afraid that I might ruin that mic. what I am looking to buy is a dynamic mic that will add some thud and punch at closer distances where you would not want to place a LDC or a ribbon. I don't think it is safe to place a U47 any closer than 2 feet away from the front head do you?