Mixing for the masses

[Vulkanizer]

Hey There

I have been engineering and producing albums for the last ten years on a variety of Analogue and digital platforms and though I cant say I love the idea of a low-fidelity world I often find myself in a situation these days where I have to consider how to make my mixes/masters sound their best in .mp3 or other low-fidelity formats. After a search of this forum which did not yield much I it would be nice to swap some ideas on this subject.

For instance I've done some testing on myspace that seems to encode at a bitrate of 96 which is off course very poor. I've tried uploading at higher sample rates, which seems to do a bit for me, dithering also seems helpfull (if your master is 24 bit) as well as taking out the extreme highs and lows and avoiding mix-bus limiting.
It seems there are people out there who manage to get the optimal result out of these low-fi formats, and maybe some of those people are you.
Many of the larger commercial artists seem to have a decent sound coming out of myspace, and I've also heard indie people get great results.

I realise the applicable, easy (and somewhat expectable) answer would be along the lines of "garbage in, garbage out - if it sounds good at the mix stage it will also sound decent on mp3" or "make it happen in the recording, mix, mastering, processing, [add your own stage here] and don't worry about the end format - they suck anyway". And this would also be valid statements - but also somewhat redundant as we are talking about getting the best results with a limited end-format in mind.

Also, this subject does not fall into the "trust your ears" category as it seems the end result is very far from what you hear when mixing and it seems a pretty tiresome process to test this out. Which is why I am also wondering if there is such a thing as an mp3 emulator plug-in that one could strap across the master bus, to see what would actually happen to the signal? - maybe that could help compensating in the mix or mastering for that particular format?

Anyway here's hoping for some golden nuggets to fall on as all from somewhere, or maybe just all of us coming up with something real clever

___________________________________________________
J.A. Hvitnov
Freelance Audio engineer/Producer
Currently based at Black Tornado Studios, Copenhagen

[Mr.HOLMES]

Hi Vulkanizer,

I only can tell you what I did after month of trying.

Everybody knows since the I POD Boom every Kid is having one.
Here in Berlin-Subway(U-Bahn) I asked some Kids if they make judgments in Audio- Quality and if they care where they get the files (Legal or illegal).

So all Kids do not care about who compressed the file or how the good things have been taken away during this process.

So Mixing special for MP3 was for me an conflict.
My advise is for that only help in a psycholgical way.

I compressed my whole I tunes Library to MP3 so I listen myself to the poor format and this has for sure a big influence to my mixing. It i s the only way I can see it because everything is compressed today....and stolen in the WWW

Not a big help I know....

PS:
We have a Mastering Studio in Berlin they offer special MP3 Mastering....I was wondering but it is for real.

[Vulkanizer]

Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES

Hi Vulkanizer,

I compressed my whole I tunes Library to MP3 so I listen myself to the poor format and this has for sure a big influence to my mixing. It i s the only way I can see it because everything is compressed today....and stolen in the WWW

We have a Mastering Studio in Berlin they offer special MP3 Mastering....I was wondering but it is for real.

I have the same impression when it comes to what the kids are actually listening for, but it still bugs me that a lot of the annoying artefacts (high frequency wobbling, loss of width etc.) seems to be more present in some songs than others, so there does seem to be a way around at least some of the problems.

I also apply the method of listening carefully to mp3 compressed music and to see what works and not and also compressing my mixes to check them out. Listening and learning so you can utilise that experience while working is definitely a good way to go. I just wonder if there's a way to make that same testing in real time on your mix. Sot of like when you mono-check on auratones to test that compatability.

[Mr.HOLMES]

Originally Posted by Vulkanizer

I just wonder if there's a way to make that same testing in real time on your mix. Sot of like when you mono-check on auratones to test that compatability.

I deeply believe we have to live with the phenomenon of our time that we all live a digital live. Everything has to be like instant coffee. Fast and easy to get.

As you are mixing for many years I would pack the stones not on my back and would let others decide to compress a good mix. Your Job is to make a good mix for a good digital format.

As long as the consumers do not realize that MP3 is a poor there will be no change.
Even if you mix for MP3 you are not able to control control who is compressing with a poor algorithms your file in his sweet home.

I would not weigh myself with that Question too much because I believe there is no real solution to the problem.

Once again not a real help but maybe a better way to look at it and not to have sleepless nights because the consumer is dictating MP3 format.

[Vulkanizer]

I absolutely agree with you and I am not suggesting changing our whole mix philosophy - i am more along the lines of thinking of a "myspace ready" mix along the lines of all the vocals up, vocals down, acapellas and instrumentals I usually do.
So it would be more like when you have your mix and its fine but you also have to deliver a mono mix for TV use, and need to make that work as well. Only this time its not only mono that's the challenge but a low fidelity end format.

[Mr.HOLMES]

It would be nice if there where a MP3 Plug In or a Mix Bus button on the SSL console.
But we do not have it yet.

But maybe SSL is taking care for this need one day?

Please choose one Button on the MIX BUS!!!!!!!

MP3 high Quality
MP3 middle Quality
MP3 poor Quality

Your only solution will be compressing and comparing with the mix bus on your console.

[Vulkanizer]

LOL - that would be great. Just think of what the SSL mixbuss compressor did to the way records sound - who knows what will happen with the mixbuss mp3 compressor?
The 4000E/G i currently have access to would definitely benefit from such a button - after sending your sounds through all the best stuff we could come up with, heres the depressing sound of it going through the crappy stuff consumers actually have ;-)

[Mr.HOLMES]

A friend of mine had on his G-BUS Button as gimmick graved in "BETTER".
Maybe the future is the button "POOR MP3 MIX BUS"

[Vulkanizer]

Bump, bump.

No one has any interest in this issue?

Maybe I should change the headline to "10 reasons why analogue sucks" visavis "10 reasons why Digital stinks" and we can all have a big debate.

Does no one do mono checking, listening on shitty speakers and all the other time-honored ways of making sure your mix works either? mp3 checking could (or maybe even should?) be another one of those.

Maybe I'm just getting old, grumpy and left out

[Aarhus Lydstudie]

I allways check how the mix works in mp3, but I haven't found any firm guidelines for making sure it will translate well from my 48khz 24bit mix down to mp3.