Gain Omg!

[Renegade Prod]

Hey guys,
While tracking heavy rock/metal distorted guitars, with the gain up to 11, and while using say 3-5 different mics on the cab, does anyone find that you're getting WAY too much gain coming through?

With each individual mic the gain sounds perfect, but with excess mics the gain of course starts to get overwhelming ... is this a mixing issue as you may not even use half the mics, or should you try and find a good medium while tracking?

Cheers

[ssaudio]

if your mics are 'in' phase the gain will increase as you sum them, so pull back the faders, that's all there is to it. Or am I reading this wrong?

Mind you, quite why you feel you need any more than a couple of mics is totally beyond me...

[Renegade Prod]

Yes they're all in phase, so it is just finding the sweet spot/medium of the mix.
LOL yeah i have never found myself using more than 3, but i found a disgusting amount of distortion coming through with 3 close mic'd.

[ssaudio]

when you say 'a disgusting amount of distortion' what do you mean?

[Led]

Why are you using 3 mics? Is it to blend them all to one sound, or is it to have different tones to use in different sections of the song? If it's to blend to one track, blend them on the way in and have all the inputs subgrouped so you can get your blend right then control the level of all 3 mics from one fader. Check them all in solo as well as it could be just one mic overloading. Personally I find 3 close mics a bit of overkill. Sometimes maybe a 57 and a ribbon are a nice close blend. More often than not it's just one of them that works. Maybe the 3rd further back as a room mic on it's own track..
If it's to have different tones to use later, track each to a seperate track, but only monitor one of them while recording. Use the one the guitarist is most comfortable with.

[BLUElightCory]

I would not only use less mics (which could definitely be creating some phase issues) but also back off the gain on the amp. If you're maxing out the gain on a high gain amp (or even coming close) it's probably going to be overkill if you want an intelligible guitar tone.

[themikesonata]

Sounds just like a summing problem to me... just back off the faders a bit.
I am personally a fan of using a few different microphones because I like to have access to different blends if I feel something different will suit the song better.... I vote for tracking them all and using whatever sounds good. dont forget to use your ears!

but a 57 and a ribbon always seem to creep into that blend, but options are never a bad thing.

[ssaudio]

Originally Posted by themikesonata

but options are never a bad thing.

If only that were true...

[six_wax]

There's "in phase" and there's "in phase"...

Sometimes you can get something complimentary with two mics, but they still won't cancel if inverted... which (mic signature aside) means they're only partially "in phase"...

So if you add a third mic --again maybe partially in phase-- you're almost certainly starting to get messy. Messy means distortion. Distortion sounds like more gain.

[ssaudio]

Originally Posted by six_wax

Messy means distortion

I'm sure you thought that actually meant something at the time of writing...

[DarkSky]

There is a language problem here.

Gain traditionally simply means additional level - so pulling back the faders reduces gain.

In the context of guitar amps and tube distortion, gain has come (colloquially) to refer to the thickening and distortion achieved by adding levels of preamp gain that overdrive subsequent stages of the amp.

Renegade Prod is, I believe, talking about distorted guitar sounds turning to a muddy mess when multiple high-gain distorted guitar signals (from several mics on the guitar cab) are combined. No amount of turning down the faders is going to reduce the tonal effects of layered distortion.

The answer is that layering thickens the sound and distortion (preamp gain overload) also thickens the sound and too much of either - or a combination of the two - will reliably produce mud. If you're going to layer multiple mic feeds, you'll need to back off on the guitar amp's input gain (or otherwise reduce overdrive distortion) in order to restore coherence while tracking. If you don't do this, you will *not* be able to fix it later.

[Renegade Prod]

Thanks everyone, love how you all can care so much about some eighteen year olds amateur Q's.
and yes Dark Sky you got it.

Overall there was not much point making a thread about it ... i just assumed this was common, but its more of an error of my intellect. I sometimes use multiple mics to create a "unique" sound - dont quote me on that. But its all about finding that "unique" sound during tracking (i must stop using that word). In that case since i am getting a build up of overdriven distortion from the amp, but placement of the 84 mics is sounding beautiful, then obviously roll of the amps gain. One of those things i should just think more obviously about, i looked too much into it, and thought .... not enough really ...

Anyway thanks again guys, appreciate anyone who even offers their advice

[DarkSky]

Hi Tyson,
No problem - and I wouldn't call it an error of intellect. It's just that on boards like this one, many (perhaps most) of us posting are crusty old engineers who mostly use the word "gain" in relation to its strictly correct (and original/traditional) meaning - which is, after all, the meaning it holds for a majority of audio engineering references to gain. Hence the ambiguity and misunderstanding. Just something to watch out for... ;)