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| So much gear, so little time! General recording equipment discussion + session & music biz politics. Moderated by Jules, London, UK & James 'LA' Lugo - the Vocal Asylum, Los Angeles, USA |
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16th May 2008, 09:31 PM
| #1 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,150
| 1970's hihat sounds How the heck do they get the hihat to sound so good? Nice and smooth and musical. I know the players were bad ass. How do you get that sound now? I would love to now how to get that nice big smooth hihat that I can groove too? It sounds like a lot of compression and eq. Even "Whip it" by Devo has that nice sound. What's the technique?
__________________ http://www.nu-tra.com |
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16th May 2008, 09:36 PM
| #2 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: May 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 809
| Are you talking "superstitious" hihats? "slow ride" hihats? or "kid charlemagne" hihats? maybe even "love to love you, baby" hihats? |
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16th May 2008, 09:38 PM
| #3 |
| Gear interested Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Stockholm
Posts: 24
  | I guess someone is going to write "tape" pretty soon, so i'll save them the bother :) The hihats where most likely recorded thruogh some nice preamps and various gear that adds lovely colour, but most importantly, recorded to tape. |
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16th May 2008, 09:39 PM
| #4 | |
| Gear Head  Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Telefunkenland
Posts: 64
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16th May 2008, 09:49 PM
| #5 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,150
| Yeah all that stuff. There is so much hat separation... It sounds like no drums are bleeding into the hat. The only thing I have that might smooth out some hats is a 1272 that has been wired properly.
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16th May 2008, 09:50 PM
| #6 | |
| Gear maniac  Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 294
| Quote:
things that might help ...... 1. try to get some vintage hats 2. bury them in the garden for a few months - it helps take the edge off ( also don't clean em ) 3. try to play on the hat surface rather than the edge 4. don't play too hard 5. track to tape 6. resist adding top end | |
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16th May 2008, 10:01 PM
| #7 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: France
Posts: 833
| tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape, tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape, tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape, tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape, tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape, tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape, tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape, tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape, tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape, tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape, tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape, tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape, tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape, tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape, tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape, tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape,tape, tape,tape, nough said  malice
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16th May 2008, 10:55 PM
| #8 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London, UK
Posts: 752
| I think the "dead room" damped kit had allot to do with that kind of sound. |
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16th May 2008, 11:44 PM
| #9 | |
| Gear addict  Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 449
 | Quote:
You mean tape "Echo"?
__________________ Apogee Rosetta 200, Lexicon PCM91, DSI Evolver, Korg Triton Extreme 61, Alesis Fusion 8HD, Roland D550, SCA N72s, Audio Technica AT4040, Event True Reference 8 monitors | |
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16th May 2008, 11:50 PM
| #10 |
| Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 184
| A lot of it is saturation built up through the audio path. Starting from the mic, to the preamp's transformers, outboard gear, all the way to when the signal hits tape and back again. |
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17th May 2008, 12:13 AM
| #11 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Oz
Posts: 2,383
| Quote:
Every track mentioned so far was recorded in a dry room. Rockin' room ambience is great on drums, but unkind to hi-hats and cymbals. Hi-hats tend to sound trashy. Find a dry room and close mic the kit.
__________________ Chris Whitten | |
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17th May 2008, 12:23 AM
| #12 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bloomington Il
Posts: 3,542
| 1. Player 2. Cymbals 3. Space 4. Gear
__________________ Tony Oxide Lounge Recording See the Oxide Lounge! WWJMD? Come see me on the Tape Op boards! "If I have to flip flop more than three times in an A/B test to figure out what the difference is, I lose interest in that difference.'--Tchad Blake |
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17th May 2008, 12:27 AM
| #13 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 731
| 2nd the dead room theory..and def tape chills it out.. |
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17th May 2008, 12:58 AM
| #14 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: steeltown
Posts: 1,443
| FWIW, Try a Beyer M160, or even a M260 on hat - it'll bring a smile to your face... 
__________________ Jay PlugHead Productions |
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17th May 2008, 01:00 AM
| #15 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,150
| My room is dead and small. We just finished building it. We'll see. Thanks!
__________________ http://www.nu-tra.com |
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17th May 2008, 01:11 AM
| #16 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: USA
Posts: 982
| I love this thread, and I agree... tape is the reason, as well as other great equipment and engineers. Even though most equipment is designed for very high fidelity, that doesn't mean that every source needs the utmost clarity to be pleasing. Tape simply did something special, which even at that time was under-appreciated. It's compression characteristics, distortion and slight dampening of the high end, all just so happened to be the very things we find pleasing to the ear. I think the digital generation has a greater opportunity to put the phenomena of tape it in proper perspective. It's not everything- but it's definitely something you miss when it's gone. -SD
__________________ ...My 57 is only a few years old, but I'd like to think that someday my children can pass it down to their children. Killahurts |
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17th May 2008, 01:15 AM
| #17 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: USA
Posts: 982
| Hey Nutra,,, did you ever get those 930s?  -SD
__________________ ...My 57 is only a few years old, but I'd like to think that someday my children can pass it down to their children. Killahurts |
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17th May 2008, 01:16 AM
| #18 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London, UK
Posts: 752
| Can't delete my own post. What a spaz. So I should ask "are you the drummer 'Chris Whitten' chrisso?" Last edited by MarkRB; 17th May 2008 at 01:38 AM. Reason: Tried to delete post cos it was a waste of electrons. |
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17th May 2008, 01:42 AM
| #19 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,194
| I'd chalk a lot of it up to the player and style of playing. I'm just a youngster, but I don't think engineers back then paid so much attention to hats that they did much more than throw a mic on through the console. Maybe throw a baffle between the snare and hat like Swedien did/does. I don't hear as much finesse on the hats these days as I do when I listen to drummers recorded thirty years ago. I remember watching the Classic Albums for SD Aja and Marotta saying that his playing on Peg was the first time he'd ever really heard his hat in the mix. He was doing all this finesse work never thinking it would be noticed.
__________________ I'm not a producer, but I play one on Gearslutz.com |
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17th May 2008, 01:52 AM
| #20 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Europe
Posts: 504
| 70s? Here i.e. UK, it would more often than not be a dead room, the desk pre and an M201
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17th May 2008, 02:00 AM
| #21 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Oz
Posts: 2,383
| Quote:
__________________ Chris Whitten | |
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17th May 2008, 02:06 AM
| #22 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Oz
Posts: 2,383
| Quote:
No, the 70's was the era of the mega album session. Bands would spend a year or more on a single album, a week getting the drum sound, even before committing anything to tape. An engineer friend of mine spent a whole studio day trying different hi-hats to find the perfect sound. In many ways it was the era of the super engineered album: E,W&F, Steely Dan, Led Zeppelin, Foreigner, Queen, Alan Parsons Project, Pink Floyd, The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac. A lot of care and attention was paid at every stage. I still say the hi-hat has taken a back seat to the hyped room sound of rock drums, but I agree that tape, a nice mic and a nice recording console all have a role.
__________________ Chris Whitten | |
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17th May 2008, 02:38 AM
| #23 |
| Gear nut  Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: UK
Posts: 111
| my fave hi-hat sound from this era might just be on the Barry White recordings. no credits or recording details on the albums though  I would also like to know how they approached the bleed issue... the hi-hats do sound very clean as somebody mentioned. KD
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17th May 2008, 03:30 AM
| #24 | |
| Gear maniac  Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 293
| Quote:
Iīm just listening to "Let the music play" and thought I could post how cool this Hat sounds. I generally like Barrys drum sound, but the hi-hats are so in another league. I also love the hats in "never ever gonna give you up"; perfekt, groove wise and sound wise.
__________________ "The drummer - who should be whacking the crap out of the drums and playing the cymbals softly and tuning the drums to sound great in the room " -Jules "i'll pay you $4001 to surgically remove your fingers." -aeonsound ,replying to a spammer | |
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17th May 2008, 03:33 AM
| #25 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Europe
Posts: 504
| Quote:
__________________ Cheers | |
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17th May 2008, 03:35 AM
| #26 | |
| Gear maniac Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 293
| Quote:
__________________ "The drummer - who should be whacking the crap out of the drums and playing the cymbals softly and tuning the drums to sound great in the room " -Jules "i'll pay you $4001 to surgically remove your fingers." -aeonsound ,replying to a spammer | |
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17th May 2008, 03:39 AM
| #27 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Europe
Posts: 504
| Quote:
__________________ Cheers | |
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17th May 2008, 03:40 AM
| #28 |
| Gear interested Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 18
| some good input in this thread ill will just add my two cents... the actual cymbals have a lot to do with it. i have a set of 1964 Zilco hihats, that are paper thin, and obviously very well worn in. they have the sound you are referring to, just though an SM7 + Vintech channel. Needless to say, my sessionists love them :) |
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17th May 2008, 04:50 AM
| #29 |
| Motown legend  Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Songwriter Gulch, Nashville TN
Posts: 4,907
| Ed Greene played all of the Barry White records. A 57 from across the room gets that high hat sound! |
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17th May 2008, 04:54 AM
| #30 | |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: May 2006 Location: phallicdelphia
Posts: 2,213
| Quote:
__________________ I believe that we have to content ourselves with our imperfect knowledge and understanding and treat values and moral obligations as a purely human problem - the most important of all human problems"....alberta weintsein " Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats." http://www.myspace.com/miketarsia | |
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